In this episode: News- 3:04 || Main Topic (Heteroflexible)- 14:14 || Gayest & Straightest- 1:01:12
Come see us live in Seattle, Chicago, San Francisco, LA, and Houston. Visit www.gayishpodcast.com/live for tour dates, details and tickets. We can’t wait to see you!
On the Patreon bonus segment, are Mike and Kyle actually homoflexible? We explore the label together and (try to) better understand our identities. Get bonus segments, episodes, and lots of other great perks by joining Patreon at www.patreon.com/gayishpodcast.
FULL EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
INTRO MUSIC [MIKE JOHNSON SINGING]
When you know that you are queer but your favorite drink is beer, that’s Gayish. You can bottom without stopping but you can’t stand going shopping, that’s Gayish. Oh, Gayish. You’re probably Gayish. Oh life’s just too short for narrow stereotypes. Oh, it’s Gayish. We’re all so Gayish. It’s Gayish with Mike and Kyle.
MIKE JOHNSON
Hello, everyone in the podcast universe. This is Gayish.
KYLE GETZ
[in a harsh voice] …The Dungeons and Dragons podcast that wants you to lick my crit!
MIKE JOHNSON
Ohhh, Kyle.
KYLE GETZ
[in the same voice] What, Mike?
MIKE JOHNSON
That’s- That voice. That voice.
KYLE GETZ
[in the same voice] Roll for initiative!
MIKE JOHNSON
Great. [chuckles] I’m Mike Johnson.
KYLE GETZ
That’s dangerously close to my anime voice.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
Um, I’m Kyle Getz.
MIKE JOHNSON
[chuckles] And we’re here to bridge the gap between sexuality and actuality. And, today…
KYLE GETZ
Today we’re going to talk about “heteroflexible”.
MIKE JOHNSON
Heteroflexible.
KYLE GETZ
…And “homoflexible” as well.
MIKE JOHNSON
A little bit.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
Two sides of the same coin.
MIKE JOHNSON
This one is our Patreon folks’ fault. I mean, it’s your fault. You finally won, Kyle!
KYLE GETZ
I know. Man, it’s been a while [Mike chuckles] since, but I’m gonna just bask in it. Let’s sit down and think about how I won. And I won the, um-
MIKE JOHNSON
The tie also.
KYLE GETZ
-the tie.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
So our bonus episode this month is going to be on catfishing.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. I really thought that roller derby was gonna do better, and now I’m- Like, I don’t- Up is down, down is up. Nothing makes sense anymore, Kyle.
KYLE GETZ
I kind of knew. I was like “Man, I need to-”
MIKE JOHNSON
My self-concept is shattered.
KYLE GETZ
Good. [both chuckle] I’m glad. I just needed something to clench, you know? Unlike bottoming, you just gotta clench that win.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah, yeah. Uh, okay, if you were gonna bottom in D&D, do you think you roll dexterity or constitution?
KYLE GETZ
[laughs] I think you roll charisma.
MIKE JOHNSON
Okay. [chuckles] Alright.
KYLE GETZ
A charisma saving throw?
MIKE JOHNSON
[chuckles] Yeah. Uh, but first…
KYLE GETZ
But first…
MIKE JOHNSON
This week, we have 100 words.
KYLE GETZ
Okay.
MIKE JOHNSON
At a certain level of Patreon, if you send in 100 words, I will say them. Doesn’t matter what they are. And this week we have 100 words from Brad Shreve, friend of the show.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. Check out his Spotlight and check out his podcast as well.
MIKE JOHNSON
“Here are my on-air 100, plus a little, words for being a Patreon member. It’s a bit serious but it means a lot to me, so I had to take advantage of the opportunity to shout it out. Thanks, guys. My friend Eric was thrown out of his home for being gay. He worked the streets in LA to survive, and became HIV positive. Just before dying from AIDS, he told me it was his fault for being a hustler. I left his hospital room and cried. That’s why I support The Trevor Project. They provide crisis intervention and 24/7 suicide prevention to vulnerable LGBTQIA+ youth, plus suicide prevention training for educators and family members. Their TrevorSpace is an online community of 400,000 LGBTQ young people from 13 to 24 years old. Members can explore their identity, offer support, and make friends. Get more info or donate at thetrevorproject.org. Brad.”
KYLE GETZ
Aw, that’s lovely.
MIKE JOHNSON
That’s lovely.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. Thanks for sharing that, and absolutely. We love The Trevor Project.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah, we heart them.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
And now the news.
[News segment intro plays, sung by MIKE JOHNSON]
Shut your mouth hole it’s time for your ear holes, news, news, news.
MIKE JOHNSON
Alright, Kyle, we have a couple of updates this week.
KYLE GETZ
Ooo, okay.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. The first is that the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence, which I’ve been talking about in the news for a while now, and their tiff with the LA Dodgers.
KYLE GETZ
And who we had on a surprise fun Shrinkage that we did.
MIKE JOHNSON
Last week’s surprise fun Shrinkage. Thanks again to the Sisters for being here, that was fantastic.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
I ran into some at the bar last night, but I was busy.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah?
MIKE JOHNSON
More on that later.
KYLE GETZ
How were you busy, Mike?
MIKE JOHNSON
Oh my God. It was Funderwear night at CC’s, and I made out a whole bunch. [Kyle chuckles] Okay, anyway, so the Pride Night did go off without a hitch on Thursday. And the Sisters- The LA chapter of the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence indeed received their Community Hero Award.
KYLE GETZ
Yay.
MIKE JOHNSON
Now, a couple of things…
KYLE GETZ
Oh.
MIKE JOHNSON
Ron fuckin’ DeSantis, fuckface dickbag asshole that he is, tweeted… some lies. So, quote, “Good on the thousands who showed up at Dodger Stadium to protest this anti-Catholic hate group. The virtually empty stadium for the game itself was a powerful image – Americans are fed up with the nonsense and are fighting back.” The thing is, it was virtually empty because they received their award an hour before the game started.
KYLE GETZ
Oh. [chuckles]
MIKE JOHNSON
The stadium was- Just, people had not shown up yet.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
It’s not- It was not that protesters kept them away, it was not that people turned their back on this whole thing. And yet he fuckin’ claims that it is.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
And uh, there also were not 1000s of protesters. There were a lot of protesters. They were, you know… you can just imagine what they were. There’s an organization called “Catholics for Catholics” which I think is the dumbest name for an organization ever. [Mike and Kyle chuckle] Uh, and they showed up.
KYLE GETZ
Us for Us.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah, exactly. Um, anyway, yeah. It happened. They got their award. There were 49,000 people at the stadium that night, which is in the high range of average for a Pride Night event. And uh, yeah, Ron DeSantis, suck a dick.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. You should be so lucky.
MIKE JOHNSON
You should be so lucky. Uh, second update this week is: I talked last week about the Temecula Valley Unified School District and their rejection of a social studies book because the teacher’s manual references Harvey Milk.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
Uh, the superintendent of that school district has been fired. [Kyle gasps] The board voted 3-1 to fire Superintendent Jodi McClay and- during a closed session last Tuesday night. And so, they gave no reason for why she was fired, but seems like it might have something to do with this story.
KYLE GETZ
Wait, so is that good for us or bad for us? Which side was she on?
MIKE JOHNSON
She was superintendent of the school and was on the side of “this book should not be in our schools because pedophilia” or something.
KYLE GETZ
Oh, okay. Okay. Gotcha. So this is good. This is good. They- I have not seen things that are related to book bans go our way too much, so that’s exciting, that someone who is calling Harvey Milk a pedophile- That’s, like, horrific, and horrible, and not true.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. Yeah. I should say… I mean, I shouldn’t say- But no, we’re all about transparency, and openness, and honesty here. Part of the pedophile narrative for Harvey Milk is that he had a relationship with someone named Jack McKinley, and they started that relationship when Milk was in his early 30s and McKinley was 16. They met in New York, the age of consent in that state at that time was 14 – totally legal – and McKinley had turned 18 when the pair moved to California. So, I mean, you can- If you want to stretch that, and belabor it, and turn it into pedophilia, fuck you. But-
KYLE GETZ
Yeah- Yeah. Well, I mean, the point is, gay people- Any kind of example that you want to pull out of that: one, it’s not, because it was legal.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
And two: you would not do that with straight couples.
MIKE JOHNSON
Right.
KYLE GETZ
In fact, actual cases of pedophilia, straight people don’t call out as much as we do. We’re like “You’re calling us pedophiles, but, like, the Catholic Church literally is pedophiles, and you don’t call out actual pedophilia, so you don’t actually care about pedophilia.” And so many Republicans are now trying to, like, legalize child marriages or whatever.
MIKE JOHNSON
Oh my god, isn’t that crazy?!
KYLE GETZ
It’s the weirdest thing.
MIKE JOHNSON
That’s so crazy. [chuckles]
KYLE GETZ
And so it- It’s not a good faith argument to try to point to any of this, not the least of which is that it was a legal, consenting relationship.
MIKE JOHNSON
I’m trying to think if I can think of a single good faith argument on the Right right now.
KYLE GETZ
Oh my god.
MIKE JOHNSON
Like, it seems like the have none.
KYLE GETZ
No. [Mike chuckles] I mean, but they do so well with their, like, chants, and phrases, and kind of making-
MIKE JOHNSON
Bumper sticker bullshit, yeah.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah, bumper sticker bullshit. Exactly.
MIKE JOHNSON
Your bullshit is bullshit, everybody.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
Let’s bring that catchphrase back, Kyle.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. Fuck off.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
Let’s bring that one to the- Fuck you. [chuckles]
MIKE JOHNSON
Okay, news the first…
KYLE GETZ
Great.
MIKE JOHNSON
…a video has been leaked to the internet, in which someone can be heard saying, about another politician, quote, “Over the same period of time, you might have noticed Ed Davey has been very busy.” “Like me, you can probably see that he was trying to convince everybody that women clearly had penises.” “You’ll all know that I’m a big fan of everybody studying [math] to 18, but it turns out that we need to focus on biology.” Uh, the person saying that is Rishi Sunak, the prime minister of the United Kingdom.
KYLE GETZ
Oh, Jesus.
MIKE JOHNSON
He’s a notorious Tory, a dickbag fuckface asshole of the utmost degree, and is now caught on camera in what he assumed was private between just Tories – just us Tories, talkin’ gagglin’ around! – saying really horribly transphobic shit.
KYLE GETZ
And the irony is, literally if you study biology or ask any actual person that studies, like, gender, sex, any of these things: they will tell you the literal opposite.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. Yeah. Yep, yep, yep, yep. Uh, he’s on record – more or less publicly – saying that he agrees with the statement that, quote, “100% of women do not have a penis.” So it’s just so TERFy. Also, apparently, the AP style guide has been updated so that we’re not supposed to say “TERF” anymore.
KYLE GETZ
Oh. Why?
MIKE JOHNSON
They don’t like that as a label.
KYLE GETZ
Oh.
MIKE JOHNSON
They think it’s ambiguous somehow.
KYLE GETZ
Oh.
MIKE JOHNSON
And they are encouraging journalists to actually focus on the behavior of people rather than labeling them as a TERF, unless they label themselves a TERF.
KYLE GETZ
Oh. I don’t care about- Good thing we’re not journalists.
MIKE JOHNSON
Right.
KYLE GETZ
Fuck you, TERFs.
MIKE JOHNSON
Right. Yeah. We should write a style guide for our show, Kyle. Ohhh, the Gayish style guide.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. It’s just one page…
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
…whatever the fuck we want to say, [Kyle laughs] and however we want to say it. Fuckin’ deal with it.
KYLE GETZ
I love this. I love this. The Gayish style book: “Do what you want. Don’t be a TERF.”
MIKE JOHNSON
Um… okay, news the second.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
Momma Ashley Rose, friend of the show, participant in Discord, drag queen extraordinaire, gets the record for what I think is the most amazing example of malicious compliance that I can think of. [Kyle chuckles] So, she is in Florida, and there’s a lot of anti-drag “anti-” bullshit in Florida. Do you- Do you know any of this story?
KYLE GETZ
Yeah, yeah, I read the email. Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
Okay, great. Yeah. So uh, in order to get around those laws, they had a drag storytime event at the Mexican consulate, because the state of Florida doesn’t have jurisdiction there. [both chuckle] So they got the Mexican consulate in Orlando to host this event and the state of Florida can’t do anything about it because of diplomatic immunity.
KYLE GETZ
Right.
MIKE JOHNSON
I think it’s so fucking brilliant.
KYLE GETZ
That’s genius.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. Uh, and I’m- I’m very very glad to have you as a listener, Momma Ashley Rose, and I hope that the event, which was last Thursday, went off without a hitch.
KYLE GETZ
And congrats on doing what you’re doing, especially in Florida. Like, we appreciate you.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah, absolutely. Anyway, everyone- Everyone, find a loophole! Find loopholes and use them, exploit them, ‘cause you know those fuckers would if they had them.
KYLE GETZ
Oh, for sure. And they do. Yeah, yeah. Stick them loopholes.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
And thanks to John Keeler for sending us in that story.
MIKE JOHNSON
Oh yeah, that’s right. Thanks, John. Uh, news the last. So, the Tonys were last Sunday right after we got off the air recording our show with Joseph, and um-
KYLE GETZ
Straightest is: I did not realize that.
MIKE JOHNSON
Michael Arden, who won the Tony Award for Best Direction of a Musical, got dumped by CBS. Like, they bleeped, they canceled out what he was trying to say. What he said was – and there was a flurry on Twitter about, like, “What did he say?” “Why did they bleep him?” Why did they cut him out?” – but here’s what he said: quote, “Growing up, I was called the F word more times than I could remember, and all I can say now is ‘I’m a faggot with a Tony.’” [both laugh] I think that’s so great.
KYLE GETZ
That’s hilarious.
MIKE JOHNSON
And, um, there is this, like, fairly common thing that pops up at the Tonys, like in their speeches and whatnot, of like… gay kids sit at home and watch the Tonys and dream, and to get to see those gay kids turn into gay adults that are succeeding and are winning awards is inspiring, and magical, and wonderful. And so, I think it’s- I think it’s- That message is so great. I understand why CBS dumped it. We’re not ready for the F word on national television.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
But maybe they could have just beeped that word instead of totally fucking cutting the feed.
KYLE GETZ
That seems… like a better approach, is bleeping a curse word.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yep. Yep. Anyway, congratulations, Michael Arden. He won the award for Best Direction of a Musical for a revival of the musical Parade. It’s based on the true story of Jewish factory manager Leo Frank, who was convicted of the 1913 rape and murder of a young woman, Mary Phagan, who worked at the factory in Atlanta. Frank was innocent, but antisemitism figured into the accusation, trial, and conviction. After his death sentence was reduced to life in prison, he was killed by a lynch mob. So it’s a feel-good musical, Kyle.
KYLE GETZ
Ew, yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
But uh, anyway, congratulations on winning the award, Michael, and thank you for at least attempting to be visible. [chuckles]
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
That’s the news!
KYLE GETZ
That’s the news.
KYLE GETZ
Well, speaking of people that I want to make visible this week, I want to thank the following Patreon members.
MIKE JOHNSON
Great
KYLE GETZ
Connah Matthews.
MIKE JOHNSON
‘Kay, that’s-
KYLE GETZ
Love that.
MIKE JOHNSON
“Connah”?
KYLE GETZ
Love that for you. Yep.
MIKE JOHNSON
Like the coffee?
KYLE GETZ
I don’t know.
MIKE JOHNSON
Okay, great.
KYLE GETZ
Um, [chuckles] and I Make Devon Say This Out Loud. …I don’t know who Devon is, or why Devon’s saying this out loud.
MIKE JOHNSON
Or is there a missing comma? “I Make Devon, Say This Out Loud”.
KYLE GETZ
“Say This Out Loud”. Or “I Make (Devon Say This Out Loud)”. [Mike chuckles] I don’t know. There could be so many parentheses.
MIKE JOHNSON
Is your name “Devon”?
KYLE GETZ
Does “Connah” need a parenthesis after it too? I don’t know. So many unanswered questions, Mike.
MIKE JOHNSON
Ugh, God.
KYLE GETZ
Um, thank you for supporting us. We do bonus episodes every month, we do bonus segments every week, and you get episodes a day early and ad-free. All these benefits and more you can check out at patreon.com/gayishpodcast. And, if you join for a year, you get 10% off the price.
MIKE JOHNSON
And you get 50% off live show tickets.
KYLE GETZ
Yeaaah! Live show!
MIKE JOHNSON
Use that code.
KYLE GETZ
Use our code! [Mike chuckles] Use it hard, baby.
MIKE JOHNSON
Do you wanna talk about heteroflexibility?
KYLE GETZ
Let’s talk about being heteroflexible. The-
MIKE JOHNSON
[fumbles words] Oh, go ahead.
KYLE GETZ
The thing that I submitted was “homoflexible”. That was actually a survey request. Someone suggested homoflexible, and that’s what I put in there, and it turned out “heteroflexible” is kind of the main label and then “homoflexible” came as a reaction to “heteroflexible”… because of equality, I guess. I don’t know. But-
MIKE JOHNSON
I’m so proud of you for going into this and explaining it, because it seems like something I would do and that you would hate. [laughs]
KYLE GETZ
No, no, no, I hate if you were like “We had a production meeting yesterday and the time was at 3:42 and we discussed-” Like, that’s the stuff I’m like “That doesn’t matter.” But no, no, no, because people voted on “homoflexible”, so this is why we’re doing “heteroflexible” as kind of the main topic and “homoflexible” would come up. And also, I fucking won, so fuck off.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah you did… daddy.
KYLE GETZ
Mhm. My choice- Whoa!
MIKE JOHNSON
[chuckles] Well, I’m gonna start with the history of heteroflexibility, at least the term.
KYLE GETZ
Okay, before you do that…
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah?
KYLE GETZ
Usually- I realized, like, right before we started: usually, if we talk about an identity, we at least try to get someone with that identity on the show.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
And, for this one, I feel less bad about not having someone actually on the show than I would if we were talking about a different identity. Do you feel that same way?
MIKE JOHNSON
I mean, we’re gonna get into it, I think, a little bit, and “Is it an identity or is it a behavior?” And so, like, I don’t know that there are a lot of- I have- I don’t- I can’t think of a single person in my life that has been like “Hi, I’m Ted, I’m heteroflexible.”
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. I looked up- I tried to find celebrities who identify as heteroflexible, and it would talk about people that were either bisexual, or sexually fluid, or wh-
MIKE JOHNSON
Channing Tatum, call me.
KYLE GETZ
[chuckles] I don’t think he- Does he identify as that?
MIKE JOHNSON
I think he identifies as bi, or poly, or-
KYLE GETZ
I thought he was bi.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
Um, anyway, so this is an interesting one to talk about. And we’ll talk about, like, the positives and potential negatives of this label.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. Yeah. Do you know of anybody who’s used that to describe themselves?
KYLE GETZ
Um, I just looked up people. Like, something I’ll share with you is why people label themselves as heteroflexible, in one of my segments. But I don’t know anyone personally, no.
MIKE JOHNSON
Also, we’re gonna, later on, talk about whether I should start telling people I’m homoflexible.
KYLE GETZ
Oooo.
MIKE JOHNSON
Anyway…
KYLE GETZ
Okay! But here first.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah, but here first. So, Merriam Webster has a pretty good article about a homoflexibility and heteroflexibility, ‘Homoflexible’/’Heteroflexible’. And the etymology of it, I think, is interesting. You can check out if you want to. So, it- [Kyle chuckles] First, I think we’ve said this on the show several times before, the term “homosexual” doesn’t appear in the literature until the 1890s, and- It appears in 1892, in C.G. Chaddock’s translation of Krafft-Ebing’s Psychopathia Sexualis from the German. So, it is actually kind of a linguistic anomaly because “homo” is Greek, meaning “same”, and “sexual” is Latin. And so it’s- Those actually- That prefix and suffix don’t belong together, because they’re from two different languages, but it got used that way anyway. But one thing that I’ve never really thought about until researching this topic is that the word “heterosexual” didn’t exist either. Both of those words come out of the same article and are introduced into English by the same dude making the same translation. And I think that’s because we have this sort of narrative in gay culture that we have always been the opposite of a thing.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
But that binary didn’t exist at all until we had the language to describe it.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
And, um, yeah. So, just, I think it’s interesting that, like, neither term existed. So then the- Before that, they referred to it – and by “they” I mean mostly psychologists – as “sexual inversion”. That got shortened to just “inversion” by 1895. And then also “uranian”, like from Uranus – [emphasizing the “anus”] Uranus – was one of the terms that got thrown out there for it. “Unnatural love”-
KYLE GETZ
Well, we used to be called “Urnings”. That was something that one person, like, came up with and, you know, of course did not stick around until now. But that was what we were called before “homosexual” came about.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yep.
KYLE GETZ
So I wonder if it’s from that root.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yep. Absolutely. I think that’s how that all comes together, yeah. So, “unnatural love” was used starting in the 1700s. Pederasty and incest also were labeled as “unnatural love”, so that’s kind of ambiguous. “Pathic” was used as a noun and adjective in reference to men that submit to sexual intercourse with other men. So, the other thing that is then interesting about “homoflexible” and “heteroflexible” is that the word “flexible” referred mostly to, like, things that are bendy.
KYLE GETZ
Mhm.
MIKE JOHNSON
Right? Like “That’s a flexible piece of plastic,” or whatever. And uh, but it started being referred to people: people who are willing to try different things, or are not quite as rigid in the way that they conduct themselves. That goes back to at least the 16th century. So we’ve been saying “People are flexible,” in this way or the other – and not just their joints – for 500 years, or 600 years. So, the word “homosexual” and the word “heterosexual”, they got shortened to just “homo” or “hetero” in the early 20th century. And so, then the “flexibility” part got added in, it appears, around 2002. So it’s very, very new. The earliest print reference that I could find was from the- May 11th 2002, in the New York Times, who- It’s a college student talking about other college students as being homoflexible. And that is on the heels of- The same year, The Buffalo News talks about “heteroflexible” as being a hot term that is rising on campuses. [Kyle chuckles] And what’s interesting to me is that the “homo” and “hetero”, the etymology is… “homosexual” is a noun, we shortened that to “homo”, and “homoflexible” is “A homo who is flexible”. So it’s not the Greek root, it’s the abbreviation of “homosexual”. Does that make sense?
KYLE GETZ
No, but that’s okay, if it does to you.
MIKE JOHNSON
Because we use “homo” for lots of things, like “homogenous”, right.
KYLE GETZ
Mhm.
MIKE JOHNSON
And that’s the Greek root.
KYLE GETZ
Mhm.
MIKE JOHNSON
That’s not what happened with the word “homoflexible”, or “heteroflexible” for that matter. Those two meanings directly derive from “Hey, you’re a homo,” or “That’s so hetero,” as shortenings of “heterosexual” and “homosexual”. So it’s not- Those are not Greek prefixes, linguistically. They are the shortened nouns from English.
KYLE GETZ
It evolved into “homosexual” and then it evolved to this. It needed that middle stage, to evolve through.
MIKE JOHNSON
Exactly right, yeah.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
So, it was “homosexual” first, that got shortened to “homo” like the way that kids use it on the playground, then that got added to “flexible”.
KYLE GETZ
Right.
MIKE JOHNSON
Which is- It’s just a different path, and it’s- Um, one of the few examples out there of, like, a slang term or a shortening got then lengthened into another word.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
Um, so The Buffalo News said “HOT TERM BEING BANDIED ABOUT ON CAMPUS: Heteroflexible – the condition of being not fully bisexual but open to adventure.”
KYLE GETZ
And it’s interesting because we already had the term “bicurious”.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
Or, I just assume. It feels like “bicurious” probably started before this, or I- I don’t know, I just- This feels more recent than that. So it’s interesting that there is a different term to try to describe this behavior.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. And I think that that’s the crux of it, that it mostly describes behavior as opposed to identity. So a dude, who is a straight dude, who’s just living his life bangin’ chicks, sucks one dick. He’s not bisexual. He might have been super into it. He might even want to blow somebody again someday, maybe. But it’s not an identity. He does not identify as bisexual. Doing that one thing doesn’t make him bisexual or homosexual. He hetero, but heteroflexible that one time.
KYLE GETZ
I… I don’t know. I think it can be used in, like, lots of different ways. I think people – some people – think it’s less common to use as an identity, but there are people that definitely do identify as, like, heteroflexible out there.
MIKE JOHNSON
Hm!
KYLE GETZ
Yeah, it just feels less common.
MIKE JOHNSON
Hm! Hm! Hm. Hm. Hm. Uh, did you know that they have a flag?
KYLE GETZ
I do! Derek, our production assistant, just showed me, before this.
MIKE JOHNSON
Our associate producer.
KYLE GETZ
Our associate producer.
MIKE JOHNSON
We just gave Derek a raise and a new title-
KYLE GETZ
Yes!
MIKE JOHNSON
-‘cause he’s been here a year.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. Thanks, Patreon, for helping us have extra hands on this show.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
We appreciate it.
KYLE GETZ
Um… yeah, we were just looking at it. It looks like rainbow penis going up a straight ally flag butt.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yep, it really does. [Kyle chuckles] That’s 100% accurate. [both laugh]
KYLE GETZ
But I- No, I didn’t know that until this morning.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. And then the, uh, LGBT pride Fandom wiki says that, quote, “The Kinsey Scale is a way to determine one’s sexual preferences through a test. Once one takes the test, they will be given a score from 0-6;” I don’t think this is true, whoever wrote this, “0 being exclusively heterosexual, 6 being exclusively homosexual. Heteroflexible individuals will usually fall at about a 1 on this scale.” I don’t think that’s true either.
KYLE GETZ
But, like, to conceptualize, I think that’s a helpful, like, “Where do you put ‘em on the scale?” kind of thing.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
Um, should I tell you about gayta?
MIKE JOHNSON
Sure, let’s do it.
KYLE GETZ
I mean, well, speaking of behaviors versus identity, this is precisely what one of the studies went to research. So, the study that I’m gonna tell you about is called “Bud-Sex”-
MIKE JOHNSON
Oh. Oh, Kyle.
KYLE GETZ
What?
MIKE JOHNSON
I like it… [Kyle laughs] more than I should have. [laughs]
KYLE GETZ
Do you want to take a second to unpack that?
MIKE JOHNSON
Bud Light presents: Bud-Sex. [both laugh]
KYLE GETZ
Yeah, that’s when you shove a Bud Light up your ass.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
Um, Bud-
MIKE JOHNSON
Bud Light’s gay now, Kyle.
KYLE GETZ
Bud Light’s gay now. Yep. Yep.
KYLE GETZ
“Bud-sex, Dude-sex, and Heteroflexible Men: The Relationship between Straight Identification and Social Attitudes in a Nationally Representative Sample of Men with Same-sex Attractions or Sexual Practices”. This is by Tonya J. Silva and Rachel Bridges Whaley in 2017 in the Sociological Perspectives journal.
MIKE JOHNSON
Great.
KYLE GETZ
So the data is-
MIKE JOHNSON
That sounds like lady names.
KYLE GETZ
Oh, okay. It does.
MIKE JOHNSON
Great.
KYLE GETZ
Oh, no, no, no, Tony.
MIKE JOHNSON
Oh, Tony.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
Eh, alright. Could go either way then.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. Um, this is data from a 2011–2013 National Survey of Family Growth, which is a nationally representative sample of Americans aged 15 to 44, and they just looked at men within this sample, but that’s who we’re gonna be talking about. And, I think, a big difference in this, when I talked about bathhouses for example, a lot of samples when you’re trying to get, like, gay, bi, this kind of data, data about sexuality, that people go to convenient samples, which is standing in front of a bar, standing in front of a bathhouse. We talked about some of the challenges of doing that, but this is a nationally representative sample. So that is a- I like that kind of data much better than a convenient sample.
MIKE JOHNSON
Especially if there’s, like, a “straight and goes to gay bathhouses”. That tells us something.
KYLE GETZ
Oh, that’d be interesting. Yeah, I wish I had that. Straight- I mean, they were- Bathhouses, remember, they were more likely to go home to their opposite-gender partner, so yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. True story.
KYLE GETZ
[chuckles] And they were less connected to the gay and bi community. Um, in the introduction, something that they suggested at the very beginning was, quote, “identity, behavior, and attraction are distinct, and do not always align in ways suggested by mainstream discourse about sexual identity.”
MIKE JOHNSON
Oh.
KYLE GETZ
“identity, behavior, and attraction are distinct.” So, I think what people have a hard time getting over is identity and behavior being distinct.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
Because we assume that you identify in a way that describes perfectly your behavior.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
Which, come to find out, that’s kind of difficult, and not how people identify themselves.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. Well, and there is the- Like, if you label yourself, if you draw a box around yourself, does it affect your behavior in ways that it otherwise wouldn’t have if you hadn’t adopted that mantle?
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
Right?
KYLE GETZ
I think that’s what you’ve been saying about, like, “top” and “bottom”.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. Those should be verbs, not nouns!
KYLE GETZ
I always- [Mike chuckles] I think they could be. I think, for some people, it is very important. And if you want to be like “I’m a bottom, that’s a really important identity to me…” I agree that we should use them less often as adjectives, but-
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah, and I guess, like-
KYLE GETZ
Or, nouns.
MIKE JOHNSON
I do sort of overstate my opposition to it as a noun.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
I do have real issues online with people that say “exclusive top” or “exclusive bottom”. I feel like that’s… I don’t know. More “exclusive top”, than anything, is like… I automatically assume that’s toxic masculinity. [chuckles]
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. Yeah. I think that is probably a lot- [chuckles] explains a lot of that. Anyway, we’re not talking about talking about “top” and “bottom”… Eh, we’re always talking about “top” and “bottom” a little bit. But, um, we’re actually talking about people who identify as straight. So, the proportion of American men aged 15 to 44, who either – so, this is a nationally representative sample, so – either have attractions to men, or two or more male sexual partners in their life. What percentage of the population is that?
MIKE JOHNSON
22!
KYLE GETZ
Oooh. Uh, 7.4%.
MIKE JOHNSON
Well, boys, you should try harder. [both chuckle]
KYLE GETZ
Uh, this data did come in on the lower side. I mean, if we said- Like, let’s say 10% of people are LGBT…
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
Half of those are bisexual.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
Another half of those are gay, half are lesbian. Like, just doing big kind of swathes, that’s 2-3%. I’ve seen people say it’s, you know, 2-3% of the population is gay men. So this is much higher than that.
MIKE JOHNSON
Mhm.
KYLE GETZ
We see, with Gen Z, that they’re… much higher percentage label themselves as LGBT. So this kind of made sense to me, as-
MIKE JOHNSON
They’re so flexible, they’re fluid?
KYLE GETZ
They’re so flexible, they’re fluid. Like a plasma, kinda.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. Yeah. [chuckles]
KYLE GETZ
Like a putty that-
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah, you left a gummy bear out in the sun too long.
KYLE GETZ
[laughs] Oh, I bet Gen Z loves being thought of as a dried out gummy bear. Okay, 7.4 either- So, this is not at all their identity, this is just “Do they have attractions to men or have they had two or more male sexual partners?” So that’s 7.4%. Of those-
MIKE JOHNSON
I will say that that second one, like, now that I factor it in, is why I guessed so high. Or, um, explains why I’m so wrong.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
Like, that feels like a really high bar.
KYLE GETZ
Mhm.
MIKE JOHNSON
Like, two or more… that’s the whole, like… What did George Bush say? “Fool me once, shame on me. You can’t get fooled again.” [both chuckle]
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
You went- You went back to the dick-well, so…
KYLE GETZ
[chuckles] You were swimmin’ in those cummies.
MIKE JOHNSON
Oh no! [laughs]
KYLE GETZ
And you loved it. You took another dip back in. Yeah yeah, that does exclude people who tried it once.
MIKE JOHNSON
Right. Yeah. Um, so, of those 7.4% of people…
MIKE JOHNSON
Mhm.
KYLE GETZ
…they found that some percent of them identified as straight.
MIKE JOHNSON
Great.
KYLE GETZ
How many? What percentage?
MIKE JOHNSON
Uh. Uh- Uh- Uh- Uh- A quarter.
KYLE GETZ
A quarter of them said they’re straight? No, half. Over half identified a straight.
MIKE JOHNSON
Wow!
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. 52.4% of those people identify as straight. So-
MIKE JOHNSON
That’s like 3% of everybody… or something.
KYLE GETZ
Yep.
MIKE JOHNSON
Because it was 7-point-something.
KYLE GETZ
Yep.
MIKE JOHNSON
Okay, great. Okay.
KYLE GETZ
Yep, yep. So about 3… 4%, according to this, of men aged 15-44.
MIKE JOHNSON
God, I’ve seen this porn, I think.
KYLE GETZ
[chuckles] Yeah. Haven’t you seen it, where he leans over and he goes “I’m one of the 52.4%,” and then winks and it’s, like, super hot?
MIKE JOHNSON
[laughs] “Our stepdad just left, so, like-” [both laugh]
KYLE GETZ
“I’ve never done this before…”
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah, so over half of those 7.4% of men identify as straight. So that could- You know, they could feel some attraction, but not big enough for them to consider themselves gay or bi. Or they experimented a couple times and decided they were straight.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
Or, you know, there are lots of explanations of why this is.
MIKE JOHNSON
Congratulations! I, again, just want to laud the efforts of a dude who’s straight, has no reason to think otherwise, and is just like “You know, I should try a dick and see.”
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
And then does, and is like… “Check- Check that off the list.”
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
“Not for me.”
KYLE GETZ
No.
MIKE JOHNSON
But good for you!
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
Like, that makes me very happy.
KYLE GETZ
I agree. I think we put- There’s, like, kind of that old rule of “You do one gay thing, and you are now forever gay.” Like, that- People will not believe that you’re-
MIKE JOHNSON
[singing to the tune of “Forever Young”] Forever gay. I wanna be forever gay.
KYLE GETZ
Get your lighters out. Um…
KYLE GETZ
Do you wanna suck dick forever? [both laugh]
KYLE GETZ
Ah… yes. Another study- This was actually on the low side of things. Another study said – this includes all genders now – it said 15% of the population identifies as heteroflexible.
MIKE JOHNSON
[doubtfully] Okay. “Identifies” feels like a strong word, but okay.
KYLE GETZ
So… I don’t know. This was on the lower end of estimates of people who, you know, say they’re straight and then have some kind of attraction or action that might make us think otherwise. So some of their explanations, they, you know, then start to theorize about why this could be the case, why over half of these people- I looked this- I read this so many times, because I was like “Half of these people?” Like, that’s impossible. There’s no way half of these people identify as straight. That just seems like a huge number to me. Um, some of their possible explanations: sexual attraction and behaviors are different than sexual identity.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
And I think this is something that I’m coming to understand, the more we do this show, is that we expect things to fit really nicely into boxes. And everyone’s- [Mike chuckles] …Are you homoflexible?
MIKE JOHNSON
I guess so. Go ahead. [both chuckle]
KYLE GETZ
We expect that it- Like, human sexuality isn’t as perfect as “We have identified the options as gay, bi, or straight, and you put yourself into one of those, and everything’s neat, and your behaviors exactly line up to this perfect-” Like, human behavior is just not that simple.
MIKE JOHNSON
Right.
KYLE GETZ
And we create these names to help get people to understand in very general terms who we are, or what’s important to us, or what we think we are, or how we want to be described, or what have you, but that doesn’t- That doesn’t exactly- That doesn’t 100% have to say “Here’s exactly how I behave.”
MIKE JOHNSON
Right. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
KYLE GETZ
Um, another reason that they suggested: “[the] straight identification is accompanied by considerable social advantages”. So I could see resisting giving up the- It’s a lot to decide to be some kind of LGBT.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
Like, we in our society do everything we can – Florida – to say “It’s wrong, and bad, and you shouldn’t do it.” And, to willingly identify in a way that puts you in that group…
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
…that seems like a lot.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah, absolutely.
KYLE GETZ
And I think that, especially if you’re like- feel like you’re on the border, like you’re on the cusp, you’re right on the- Like… I would much rather identify in a way that gets me a lot more privilege.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, and some of the stuff that I have, later, about the way people behave on apps… Like, “heteroflexible” has “hetero” right there in the name, right?
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
Like, that’s less threatening-
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
-to, you know, the loss of privilege that comes with being part of the umbrella.
KYLE GETZ
Yep, absolutely. Similarly, another reason: “heteronormativity is entrenched within most U.S. institutions and contexts”.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
The assumption is that you are straight, until proven otherwise.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
And, there are numerous influences to sexual identity, not just sexual attractions or sexual practice, neither of which determine sexual identification.
MIKE JOHNSON
Hm. Hm. Hm.
KYLE GETZ
So what it comes down to is: “straight-identified men who have same-sex sex or attractions are not closeted; they simply interpret their identity in ways different from gay and bisexual men.” I think that’s a possible explanation. I think there also could be a resistance to labeling yourself as bisexual…
MIKE JOHNSON
Mhm.
KYLE GETZ
…caught up in this. I think there can be some internalized biphobia caught up in some of this.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yep.
KYLE GETZ
And another just interesting finding that I wanted to point out is that there is this kind of narrative that more Latino or Black men are – as they call them – down-low or secretly having sex with men. I think that’s a, like, common trope, like, common enough that that just comes up as one of the assumptions. And, in this, because they had a nationally representative sample, they had a representative sample of races and ethnicities. So, they found that Latino and Black men did not have significantly higher odds of straight identification than non-Latino Whites.
MIKE JOHNSON
…Okay. …Okay. Interesting.
KYLE GETZ
So… I thought that was an interesting challenge to some of the racial discourse that happens around people that identify as straight and still have sex with men.
MIKE JOHNSON
Do you associate being on the DL as being higher in people of color?
KYLE GETZ
I associate that word with people of color.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
Like, if someone said “DL” or “down-low” I would associate that with mostly black men.
MIKE JOHNSON
But it’s not true.
KYLE GETZ
Not according to this study, yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah, yeah. Interesting.
KYLE GETZ
Do you?
MIKE JOHNSON
Uh, no, I don’t.
KYLE GETZ
Oh.
MIKE JOHNSON
…But maybe that’s because I was on the DL. [both laugh]
KYLE GETZ
Um, that’s the gayta.
MIKE JOHNSON
Great. Awesome. Well, I want to talk to you about apps.
KYLE GETZ
Okay.
MIKE JOHNSON
Dating apps.
KYLE GETZ
Whew. Boy, and I’m on some of ‘em, so I’m worried. This directly affects me in my life.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah, same. But first, a joke.
KYLE GETZ
[laughs] Okay. Sure.
MIKE JOHNSON
A user on Reddit said “My partner is heteroflexible. They’re like spaghetti: straight until wet.” [both chuckle] Um, so, you know the app Feeld? You said that you’re on-
KYLE GETZ
I’m on Feeld.
MIKE JOHNSON
You’re on Feeld.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
And we were talking before the show; what- How would you describe it?
KYLE GETZ
Oh, I see it as more poly and more queer than other apps that I’m on.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. Um, and I think that checks out, especially the poly thing. I’ve heard, like, lots of poly people say that, like, that’s where you can go to, like, not get judged for being poly, or open, or whatever.
KYLE GETZ
I see more couples on there for sure.
MIKE JOHNSON
Um, but Feeld has “heteroflexible” available as an option for your sexuality, like as an identity. And, at least according to Feeld, 12% of their users that identify as women also identify as heteroflexible.
KYLE GETZ
Hm.
MIKE JOHNSON
And so there’s a lot of stuff out there that maybe- Maybe women are more apt to consider themselves flexible, whether that’s heteroflexible or homoflexible. And that kind of checks out, right? Like, that seems to fit the narrative – right? – that, like, chicks lez out sometimes. And, like, that’s great.
KYLE GETZ
Yep. Yep. Yep yep.
MIKE JOHNSON
[chuckles] You know?
KYLE GETZ
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And- I mean, because we’re viewing things from- Because of toxic masculinity and the patriarchy, it’s more acceptable to be a woman that makes out with a woman…
MIKE JOHNSON
…Because straight dudes think it’s hot, or something?
KYLE GETZ
‘Cause straight dudes think it’s hot, yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
Um, so then… they did a survey of people on Feeld and they asked “Why do you choose ‘heteroflexible’ as your label?” And it doesn’t give a gender breakdown here at all but it said, quote, “Some people said they use it as a label as they would be comfortable with same gender sex as part of a group but not seeking it out solo.”
KYLE GETZ
Hm.
MIKE JOHNSON
So they’re like “Three-ways, if somebody that has the same parts as me is there, I’m fine.”
KYLE GETZ
Mhm.
MIKE JOHNSON
Others said they use it to describe being sexually interested in the same gender but not romantically interested, which, that’s another separation that we haven’t really peeled off yet in this conversation, that, like, your sexual behavior and your romantic behavior don’t necessarily have to align.
KYLE GETZ
Right.
MIKE JOHNSON
And you might like getting railed but have no interest in dating dudes.
KYLE GETZ
Right?
MIKE JOHNSON
And, um, so that’s something to consider.
KYLE GETZ
And, I mean, even, like, in my study where I talked about attraction, there’s also, like, aesthetic attraction. Like, “I’m attracted to men,” like, some people might interpret that phrasing as, like, “I can understand when dudes are hot. Like, I can see it.” Like, there’re- I think romantic and sexual are good breakdowns, and really important to, like, especially understanding what you want in a relationship, whether it’s, like, dating, or sex, or whatever. But there’s like five or… I don’t know, 10 – I don’t know how many you can break it down into – like, different kinds of attraction that people have. And those can be such a variety between all of them, they don’t all have to perfectly align.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. Yep. Exactly right. That’s exactly right. And, uh, the last one here: some use it for other definitions, like being attracted to nonbinary humans but not the same gender. So uh, especially in people that present more one side of the binary or the other but are, strictly speaking, nonbinary. So, you know, a cis man might be into having sex with mostly femme-presenting nonbinary people, regardless of their gender assigned at birth, and not find that a threat to their labeling themselves as heterosexual, but also is sort of admitting that that other person isn’t a woman.
KYLE GETZ
Right.
MIKE JOHNSON
So, therefore, “I have to label it something.”
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
“Different than purely straight, purely hetero.”
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
Which, I think that’s- That gets super complicated, right?
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
But that’s what’s going on.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. Yeah, there is an interesting, like, I think that’s part of- That can be a frustrating time. We talk about, you know, “Your label is not the same as your behavior,” but if you’re in a relationship with someone else, who doesn’t identify as the person- like, you’re like “I’m attracted to this group of people,” and that person doesn’t fall into that group…
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
If you’re like, “I’m straight,” and this person is not the opposite gender…
MIKE JOHNSON
Yep.
KYLE GETZ
…that could be frustrating to-
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
Like, that could feel invalidating. So that’s, I think, one of those times where labeling and your actions might have to collide, and you might have to make some sense of it. Or maybe they don’t give a shit. You know what; who knows?
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
It depends on the person.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yep. Yep. Then this last bucket that I think is… We’ve already sort of talked about it, but I want to dive in a little deeper: people may choose to identify as heteroflexible because of biphobia.
KYLE GETZ
Right.
MIKE JOHNSON
And that’s, um, that they are afraid of experiencing biphobia. They might not be biphobic themselves, but they are aware that biphobia exists in our culture and in our society, and they don’t want to expose themselves to that kind of derision, judgment, treatment.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
And I think that’s really interesting.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. I mean, a lot of things that I read were like “This is another form of bi erasure.”
MIKE JOHNSON
Yep, it is. Or, can be. For some people, it is. So, a 2016 study – this is all on Feeld’s blog – a 2016 study found that 63% of women would not consider dating a man who had engaged in sexual activity with another man, even if it was just a one-off. So you’re- That’s the kind of, you know, cultural backlash that you’re potentially… Um, if you’re a straight dude, and your plan is to be married to a chick someday, like… being bisexual can actively work against that. Having your identity be “bisexual” can actively work against that.
KYLE GETZ
That fuckin’ sucks.
MIKE JOHNSON
That sucks. That fuckin’ sucks.
KYLE GETZ
That sucks to- Like, we have so many expectations placed on men, especially men in relationships, and to add in another level of “You can’t experiment, or try things, or have any kind of sexual behavior or interest that doesn’t align with just ‘purely straight dude’,” like, that really sucks.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yep. Yep, Yep. Uh, a user called “the_girlabides” said “Folks are not required to prove their identity by means of their dating record to self identify as bi. It’s kind of a major sticking point that we don’t have to prove ourselves,” “Unfortunately a lot of folks would argue this term actually contributes to bi-erasure. I think it’s up to the person to label themselves how they choose, but this one has always rubbed me the wrong way (as a response to biphobia). I do have to point out that bisexuality looks very different to different people, so implying that one needs to seek relationships of any kind or have them in order to be bi is misleading.”
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. Yeah, I think there are a lot of misconceptions: that you have to have a 50/50 interest, that it has to be both sexual and romantic attractions, that- Like, those are a lot of the- Or, I mean, even when we’re talking about, like, if you’re in a relationship with someone, I think there are unfounded fears that, like, “Well, you’re also attracted to other genders, so it’s not just me, so you’re gonna cheat on me.” Like, that’s one of the bisexual stereotypes that is unfortunately out there. And it’s like… That just doesn’t make- hold up to scrutiny. Like, I’m gay, so I’m attracted to lots of different men, so if I’m in a relationship with a man there are lots of other people that I might be attracted to.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yep.
KYLE GETZ
That doesn’t equate to cheating. So that- That doesn’t just apply to- It’s like the person that has that fear – that unfounded fear – is projecting their insecurities or something onto this thing, and it sucks that that’s a bi stereotype.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yep. It absolutely is the, like, “They must be greedy,” “They must-”
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
You know, “Can’t make up their mind,” or, like- It’s just- Ugh!
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
Be nice to bi people, everybody.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
Also- I mean, I used to think that too, like, earlier on in the show. I used to even say I think that, like, bisexual people need to do both in order for their identity to be valid as bi people. And I- Doing this show has definitely taught me that I was super-duper wrong about that.
KYLE GETZ
I think that leads into, like, behaviors. You don’t have to have a specific experience with another gender in order to claim bisexuality. Like, that’s where you don’t have to, like, look at your dating history to prove it.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
Like, you can feel it and not have ever hooked up with anyone of a certain gender, and still be bi.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yep. Yep. Well, so then I- Uh, this is a totally nonscientific thing, but this morning I hopped on Grindr and I was like “‘Heteroflexible’, ‘homoflexible’, what are the options there?” and it’s not on Grindr at all.
KYLE GETZ
Hm.
MIKE JOHNSON
I couldn’t find- Because there’s a couple of things, right? Like they have a drop down for, like, your orientation, and a drop down for your gender, and then they have, like, um, you can select, you know, different things about yourself, but then they also have hashtags that you can add to your profile. Um, “heteroflexible”, “homoflexible”, neither of those are on it at all. But there’s a bunch of stuff on there too that I was like “Well, what does this mean? What does that mean?” like, when I was looking through the tags. And-
KYLE GETZ
Ooo.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
What’d you- Like, what kind of things?
MIKE JOHNSON
Umm… let’s see. There’s a lot of stuff that’s, like, acronyms that I had to look up. Like, I forgot that “CBT” is “cock and ball torture”.
KYLE GETZ
Ohhh.
MIKE JOHNSON
But, like, that’s one that’s on there. We’ll have to go through them sometime.
KYLE GETZ
When I do CBT with my therapist, it is not cock and ball torture.
MIKE JOHNSON
Right, exactly. [Kyle chuckles] Exactly. Are you sure?
KYLE GETZ
Uh, mental. It’s mental cock and ball torture. [both chuckle]
MIKE JOHNSON
Uh, but then I looked at Scruff. And Scruff, I don’t know what their user base is like, but the number of people on Scruff that had the hashtags – because, like Grindr, you can add hashtags to your profile – “#heteroflexible”, there’s 43 users.
KYLE GETZ
Wow, that’s so little.
MIKE JOHNSON
That’s so little. And uh, what do you think “homosexual”, more or less?
KYLE GETZ
Uh, normally I would say “less”, but this is a gay user group so I’ll say… 1000.
MIKE JOHNSON
39.
KYLE GETZ
Oh, wow.
MIKE JOHNSON
So almost exactly the same, and both very, very small.
KYLE GETZ
Wow.
MIKE JOHNSON
And I don’t know what that says. I’m not, like, claiming to have any, like, big takeaways from this except, I think, at least in the gay sex app world, these aren’t very prevalent labels and there’s surely some kind of a strategy there. Or maybe people don’t know that you can use hashtags, because a lot of the hashtags you would think would be used a whole bunch are still only like a few thousand people.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. Yeah. Hashtags seem like a recent update that I don’t know that a lot of people know are even there and you can search – on Scruff, at least – you can search by hashtags to find people that meet things. It seems like there are- Like, you see jokes about, like, people posting on Grindr like “Wait, you’re straight?” like “Yeah, but I’m window shopping,” or, you know, you see kind of these jokes and memes that includes straight people. I wonder if more people knew this term then more people would use it, and it might more accurately describe some people on apps like Grindr where someone straight is curious and exploring.
MIKE JOHNSON
The thing I feel like I’ve seen a whole bunch on the apps lately are dudes that go out of their way to loudly proclaim on their profile “I’m only interested in fem twinks and trans women.”
KYLE GETZ
Mm.
MIKE JOHNSON
And it feels like in a “…because I’m a straight guy and I can do those kinds of people and preserve my straightness.”
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. Yeah, it does.
MIKE JOHNSON
I don’t get it. I don’t know what’s going on there. But, like, it’s-
KYLE GETZ
I mean, I think it’s- Like, societally, we… like we said, like, it’s all the pressures from society. Like, to change that label from “heterosexual” to anything else… that’s a huge step that we place so much derision, and loss of privileges, and shit on.
MIKE JOHNSON
Mm. Yeah, yeah. So- Okay. On a dating app, a sex app, or otherwise, if you saw “#heteroflexible” or “#homoflexible” associated with somebody’s profile, they self-identified that way on their profile, would that impact your behavior in terms of, like, being into them or not, dating them or not, hooking up with them or not?
KYLE GETZ
Well… [sighs] I think it’s interesting, because I would treat them very differently.
MIKE JOHNSON
‘Kay.
KYLE GETZ
I would view them- “Homoflexible” I’m like “Cool, you’re gay… but you have a little bit of, you know, mayb-” Like, I don’t know. Maybe I should identify as homoflexible. Like, I don’t know. Um, so that one I would feel a little bit more comfortable with. “Heteroflexible” I feel like I’d have to talk to them. Like, if you’re heteroflexible and not labeling as bi, or pan, or gay, or queer, or anything like that, then do you really want a relationship, or do you want to hook up with a guy? Like, if it’s just a hookup then, like… I don’t give a fuck.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. [chuckles]
KYLE GETZ
Like, you can put whatever you want on your profile. Like, it does not matter.
MIKE JOHNSON
[chuckles] Put whatever you want, just choke me already.
KYLE GETZ
Just- Yeah! [chuckles] Just get inside. Like, what do you- I don’t- Call yourself whatever you want.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
But for, like, a relationship for dating, if I saw that, that would make me worried-
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
-that they were not actually going to commit because it’s like I’m not- I don’t want to be a “flexible” part of your life, I want you to be solidly into men-
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
-and want to date me.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yep.
KYLE GETZ
What about you?
MIKE JOHNSON
Um, very, very similar, I think. “Homoflexible”, I’m not threatened by the idea that, like, sometimes you are into people that aren’t men. That’s fine, totally fine. Doesn’t bother me. And “heteroflexible” though, I think, on a sex app especially, I would be less likely to talk to that person. And the reason is: there’s an implication, to me, that they’re not interested in connecting with men. And, as we’ve said on the show a bajillion times, connection is so important to me and my sexuality that I would just automatically assume that I’m not gonna get that from him, that he’s just gonna wanna use me as a hole.
KYLE GETZ
Hm. Mm..!
MIKE JOHNSON
And that- [chuckles] That doesn’t work for me… [Kyle chuckles] as much as it works for you. [both chuckle] So yeah, I think I would be less likely to- Um, I’d be just as likely, no change in behavior, for “homoflexible”. “Heteroflexible”, I would- that would be a yellow if not red flag to me.
KYLE GETZ
Interesting.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
Should I talk about people who identify as heteroflexible?
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah!
KYLE GETZ
Okay.
MIKE JOHNSON
Who are they? Who are these people, Kyle!?
KYLE GETZ
Who are they? [Mike chuckles] What do you- What do you want with us? Um, this is a article on Greatist, by Gabrielle Smith in 2021, where they interviewed people that identify as heteroflexible, and I just grabbed portions of their explanations to make it a little bit more succinct, but…
MIKE JOHNSON
Great.
KYLE GETZ
Someone that is- identifies as female said, quote, “I have yet to explore with folks who are not cis men”. So this was more of a “That’s the reason I’m attracted to people, but have not actually explored it.”
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
Which is interesting, because there’s some people that seem to come across- like, they identify this way because there’s that level of curiosity that they haven’t explored yet. And other people though, like “bicurious” is also a label that they’re clearly not using. Other people were like “But I’ve moved past ‘bicurious’. I’m not ‘curious’ anymore; I know.”
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
So there are a couple of different ways or reasons someone might identify this way. Another woman said “I don’t identify as queer because I’m married to a cis male (I want to acknowledge the privilege we have of being straight).”
MIKE JOHNSON
Okay.
KYLE GETZ
Which, that one…
MIKE JOHNSON
‘Kay.
KYLE GETZ
I don’t know. I think there’s value in… I think being in a relationship that passes as straight – this is gonna be a hard one for people to take, but – some people disagree, but there’s privilege in that.
MIKE JOHNSON
Oh yeah.
KYLE GETZ
So, um, I think acknowledging that there’s privilege in presenting as a straight couple, I think is valuable. But also, that might even be better to then label yourself as something that isn’t straight, becau- If it- That just goes to show that appearances aren’t everything.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yep. Yep.
KYLE GETZ
So I think there actually could be value in-
MIKE JOHNSON
You’ve mentioned this before. And it’s Pride Month; if you see what you think to be a straight couple wandering around Pride, at the parade, at the bars, even if it’s not Pride Month, like, before you lay into them about being horrible straight people, one or both of them might be bi so, like, fuckin’ take a- Just calm down.
KYLE GETZ
Someone could be- [Mike chuckles] Yep. Yep. Someone could be trans, someone could be- Like, there are a lot of explanations that make them not a straight couple, even if they present that way.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yep.
KYLE GETZ
Yep. Totally. A male respondent said “I’ve come to the awareness that I’m attracted to a feminine aura … that might include trans women and occasionally men. I have more desire to be with men in a purely sexual and group play dynamic. I don’t feel like this aligns with bisexual[ity] because although I’m open to male encounters, it’s not something I seek out. I do consider myself queer, because I have a sexual lifestyle that others may condemn or consider strange.”
MIKE JOHNSON
Mmm.
KYLE GETZ
So it’s interesting to both identify as queer- Like, identifying as queer and heteroflexible, to me, says, like… it’s not that you’re just afraid of labeling yourself as any kind of LGBT. That’s not what’s going on here.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
But it’s interesting you mentioned, like, threesomes or group- Like, that came up a couple times of why people, like, “I would be okay if, in a group setting, there was someone there that was the same gender as me.”
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. Like, I- There are quite a few, a surprising number of straight guys in my life, that have, like, hooked up with the same chick before.
KYLE GETZ
Mm. Mhm.
MIKE JOHNSON
And I’ve never really thought about it, whether… whether that’s- Like, if they don’t interact with each other at all…
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
…it’s still kind of homoerotic.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
Like, I think- [chuckles] I think that’s- If they wanted to say that’s heteroflexibility, then I would be inclined to agree. [laughs] You know?
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. That would make sense to me. A devil’s three-way.
KYLE GETZ
[chuckles] Another person said “I think heteroflexible seems to fit bc I just don’t give it too much concern? I’m just open to experiences without judgment.”
MIKE JOHNSON
Okay, Gen Z. That’s like- [Kyle chuckles] That’s their motto for living, right?
KYLE GETZ
Just don’t give a shit. Um, and then lastly, a man said “…because I think I’d be okay in sexual situations where contact with other masculine presenting people might occur. I don’t really find myself attracted to other men sexually, though I can appreciate male beauty.”
MIKE JOHNSON
Mmm.
KYLE GETZ
And there’s something about- Another common theme that I also found is, like, “I’m not seeking this out, and if something happens then I’m kinda okay with it.” That seems to be another theme of why people might identify this way.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. Yeah. It’s like… It’s like when you’re at work and doughnuts show up in the kitchenette, right? Like “I wasn’t seeking them out, but here they are and they’re delicious.”
KYLE GETZ
Yeah! “I’ll go for it.”
MIKE JOHNSON
“I’m gonna put them in my mouth.”
KYLE GETZ
“But I’m just gonna go for one, you know?” [Mike chuckles] “I don’t need all of them.”
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
“And now I’m not gonna go home and order a whole bunch more.”
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
“I had that one, and that was great.”
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. Yeah. It’s that chocolate one, with the sprinkles.
KYLE GETZ
Yum!
MIKE JOHNSON
That probably has some kind of cream inside.
KYLE GETZ
They will. [Mike chuckles] Wait, don’t- Don’t fuck your doughnuts at work. Save that for-
MIKE JOHNSON
Oh, or do. Or do!
KYLE GETZ
Or- Well…
MIKE JOHNSON
Just don’t get caught. HR doesn’t like that.
KYLE GETZ
[kinda singing] You can work from home, whoa-oh, oh-oh. [speaking] Um, yeah, so I- Hopefully that- I always- Even though we don’t- we said, like, we don’t have someone here representing heteroflexibility or homoflexibility, hopefully that helps add actual people’s perspectives on what’s going on for them. And, like, you know, I think it’s possible that this identity could come along with queerphobia. And for other people it’s- they don’t give a fuck. For other people, it makes sense of what they’re seeking out or what they’re interested in.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. Huh. Hm. I’m with you.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. Mike?
MIKE JOHNSON
Hm?
KYLE GETZ
Are you homoflexible?
MIKE JOHNSON
Oh, God. I don’t know, Kyle.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah? …Tell me about this.
MIKE JOHNSON
Okay, w- Do we have anything for Patreon?
KYLE GETZ
No.
MIKE JOHNSON
Should we save this for Patreon?
KYLE GETZ
But this is juicy.
MIKE JOHNSON
I know. We gotta get those Patreon monies. [both chuckle] I’ll- I’ll talk about it in Patreon. Like, the preview of that, and just to not leave people hanging, is that some of the definitions that I ran into of “homoflexible”, “heteroflexible”, like, describe me. Like, whether I use that label for myself or not, I had a long sexual relationship with my now ex-wife. And so… now that I’ve been out and living my fully authentic life, I haven’t- I haven’t hooked up with any women at all, don’t seek that out. But I’m also not opposed to that as an idea, and I definitely was like, sometimes, like, super into her and enjoyed that. But I’m definitely not bisexual. So I don’t know.
KYLE GETZ
Interesting.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
It seems like you’re… At first, you talked about how you didn’t think it was identity, it was more about behavior, and now you’re saying you, like, related to a lot of it. So that’s surprising. That feels like-
MIKE JOHNSON
Well, so if I make it about behavior…
KYLE GETZ
Mhm.
KYLE GETZ
…I have exhibited that behavior, right? So if- If it isn’t a label for identity but a label for behavior, that label applies. So therefore I am homoflexible.
KYLE GETZ
Hm!
MIKE JOHNSON
I’m a homo that has… hooked up, and liked it, with women. So, um, just… you know, making myself a math problem. [Kyle chuckles] Homoflexible. You know?
KYLE GETZ
Interesting.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
I also want to talk more about it for me, because I’ve said before that I feel like I am 95… 97% gay. Like, I would make out with a woman and I have. And, like, almost like what we prescribe to women as like “They can make out with other women at parties,” or whatever. Like, I would make out with another woman at a party.
MIKE JOHNSON
Mhm. Mhm.
KYLE GETZ
Like… I don’t know.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
So, okay, do you wanna breakdown on Patreon if we’re homoflexibles?
MIKE JOHNSON
Sure, let’s do it.
KYLE GETZ
Okay.
MIKE JOHNSON
Um, but uh… Uh, did we do it? Is there, like-
KYLE GETZ
I mean, ye- I think, like a lot of things, there- I think this could- I think there are shitty reasons to identify this way, and there’re totally fine and valid reasons to. I think- I mean, we’re- This is what we’re doing, we’re breaking down this identity. Normally, I would not- If anyone said they’re homoflexible… we’re not gonna get into- Like, I accept your identity, trust it…
MIKE JOHNSON
Sure.
KYLE GETZ
…we’re not gonna get into these kinds of conversations.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
I think it’s helpful to evaluate whether some of these come from some kind of internalized biphobia.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
I think that’s a useful exercise for people. But, in the real world, what am I actually gonna do with this? And this is not much. I trust and believe in people when they identify how they do.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. Yeah. And if I don’t, I’m definitely not gonna fuckin’ say anything.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. Keep to myself. Talking about it with your friends. Like- And then make a podcast about it, I guess. [chuckles]
MIKE JOHNSON
Right. Yeah. Yeah. [both chuckle]
MIKE JOHNSON
Um… okay, so should we take a break?
KYLE GETZ
Yeah, let’s take a break!
MIKE JOHNSON
Let’s take a break.
KYLE GETZ
Break.
[Break music plays, sung by MIKE JOHNSON]
This is the part where Mike and Kyle take a break!
MIKE JOHNSON
[chuckles] So, are we back?
KYLE GETZ
We’re back!
MIKE JOHNSON
We’re back!
KYLE GETZ
We’re gonna do our Gayest & Straightest.
MIKE JOHNSON
We’re gonna do our Gayest & Straightest, but first… Yeah. All the things. First of all, we’ve been doing this Gayish Spotlight thing where we highlight queer people doing awesome things, and we have listener, cutie patootie, rapper, singer, nurse, Jeremy Soto is going to be on. Or, is. It was posted before this- Time is weird, Kyle.
KYLE GETZ
It’s already up, so you can go listen to it now. You can go to patreon.com/gayishpodcast and it is available.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. And it’s free. You don’t have to be a Patreon supporter to go and hear it. But you can hear him talk about his career, and listen to some of the music, and, um, hear our conversation, and it was great.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
Great having him on.
KYLE GETZ
And we have two other Gayish Spotlights that you can listen to as well, also free and posted on Patreon. So just search for “Gayish Spotlight” and you’ll find all three. And we’re gonna keep doing those things.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeaaah! If you have a suggestion for somebody too, our DMs are open.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
Or emails or whatever. Uh, also, the day after this drops, so tomorrow, we will be at Hula Hula with Derek and Romaine to do a joint live show. It’s at 3pm, again Friday afternoon, to kick off your Pride weekend here in Seattle.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
Would love to see you there. Uh, if you bought tickets, those do nothing. It’s first come, first serve, and seating will be limited. Also… buy your tickets for Chicago, you fuckfaces.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah! Hey, friends. Hey, buddies. [Mike chuckles] Yeah, we’re gonna be in Chicago on July 29th at 1pm at Sidetrack, so get your tickets and we would love to see you there.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. Excellent.
KYLE GETZ
And see all of our tour dates at gayishpodcast.com/live.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeaaah! Do it.
MIKE JOHNSON
Our website, that Kyle just said, is gayishpodcast.com.
KYLE GETZ
We are on socials, @gayishpodcasts. We have a Discord, a Facebook group, Spaces. If you want to find out all our info, go to gayishpodcast.com/contact.
MIKE JOHNSON
We also have a Diablo IV clan, Kyle.
KYLE GETZ
Ohh, wow.
MIKE JOHNSON
I started it this morning. So far, it’s me and my brother Murph.
KYLE GETZ
Nice.
MIKE JOHNSON
But if anybody else wants to join, look for “Gayish Agenda” and I will add you. [Kyle chuckles] Uh, our hotline, you can send us text messages or leave us voicemails, is 5855-Gayish. That’s 585-542-9474. Standard rates apply.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah! Our email’s gayishpodcast@gmail.com.
MIKE JOHNSON
Our physical mailing address is Post Office Box 19882 Seattle, Washington 98109.
KYLE GETZ
Gayest & Straightest?
MIKE JOHNSON
Do our Gayest & Straightest?
KYLE GETZ
Yeah!
MIKE JOHNSON
No! Local Gay Bar Review!
KYLE GETZ
Woo!
MIKE JOHNSON
Yay! Uh, as you may or may not have heard, because I said it like 400 times and then felt weird about it, uh, because we were at The Spot and I kept talking about the 9th Avenue Saloon… we’re gonna talk about the 9th Avenue Saloon in Manhattan, in New York City. And, um, I really- So, first of all, I think the biggest selling point that everybody was excited about was the wallpaper in the bathroom. Did you see it?
KYLE GETZ
Oh, no, I didn’t go to the bathroom.
MIKE JOHNSON
It was like a Tom in Finland-looking, like, cartoony, like, buff cowboys-
KYLE GETZ
[chuckles] Buff cowboys.
MIKE JOHNSON
-doing cowboy stuff, but cartoons. [Kyle chuckles] And uh, Kerel and I went there, from Minoritea Report, the night before the show, and had just a really fascinating time. We talked to Spike the porn star. We talked to and harassed him, it was awesome. Uh, the bartender looked like one of the Jonas brothers so Kerel named him “Jonas”. So his name is “Jonas Jonas”. Um, and uh, it’s a small place but it’s really intimate and nice, and I found myself very comfortable there. I’m gonna say 4 dildos.
KYLE GETZ
Nice!
MIKE JOHNSON
What do you think? What did you think?
KYLE GETZ
Um, yeah, it was a lot of fun. I mean, I think, for me, it was more about the people. We went there after our live show and so that’s where we got to, like, actually chat and spend a little bit of time with people that came to see us at the show, which I thought was a lot of fun. And, man, I guess this is just my age, that I want to go to a place that is not a [makes sounds like pulsing nightclub music].
MIKE JOHNSON
Oh my god, The Spot was so loud.
KYLE GETZ
I wanna actually, like, be able to talk to someone.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
That, to me, is more important than, like- Yeah. Trying to talk someone and you’re like “Hey! What’s going on?!” “What?!”
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
“I was asking-!” Like, that, to me, is like just a tiring ordeal. So yeah, I had fun there.
MIKE JOHNSON
Good. Good, good, good. Um… Gayest & Straightest?
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. I’ll go.
MIKE JOHNSON
Okay, go.
KYLE GETZ
Um, so my gayest is: we had our recent Shrinkage about the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence and I wore their shirt that they gave us to our D&D group, and that sparked a conversation about the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence.
MIKE JOHNSON
Sure did.
KYLE GETZ
And then, uh, my straightest is: when we were playing D&D, we get to describe how our characters kill zombies when they do kill them, and I killed a couple of zombies and got to describe in gory detail how I did that.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah you did. Zombie chunks.
KYLE GETZ
Zombie chunks.
MIKE JOHNSON
Zombie boy chunks.
KYLE GETZ
There were zombie boy chunks. [both chuckle]
MIKE JOHNSON
Uh, well, let’s see… The straightest thing about me this week is the fucking Murphy bed in the studio.
KYLE GETZ
Mmm. Mhm.
MIKE JOHNSON
It has been a gigantic pain in the ass. Thank you for coming over last week to help me with a lot of the construction. And then just, like, I couldn’t figure out how to bolt it to the wall and the one handyman that I got a hold of quoted me like $2,400 to come and do it.
KYLE GETZ
Jesus.
MIKE JOHNSON
I, like- Then I just got pissed and took my drill and drilled it into the wall. So hopefully it doesn’t kill anybody. [Kyle chuckles] Uh, the gayest thing about me this week is just, uh, we have a- We had an all-hands meeting coming up for my organization at work and someone came to me and was just like “Oh, it’s Pride Month. Mike, do you want to talk about that stuff?” [Kyle laughs] So, like, I’m the resident go-to gay at work.
KYLE GETZ
What are you gonna talk about for Pride Month?
MIKE JOHNSON
Well, and then it got cancelled, so I don’t know.
KYLE GETZ
Oh, okay.
MIKE JOHNSON
But anyway, um-
KYLE GETZ
That’s a little bit on the spot to be like “Pride Month. Go.”
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah, exactly right. Exactly right. Which, you know, feelings.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
But yeah, I’m the gay in the village. I’m the go-to gay in the village.
KYLE GETZ
Nice!
MIKE JOHNSON
Uh, this week we have a listener’s Gayest & Straightest in our voicemail. We absolutely love it when you leave those in your own voice, so please do that. And, uh, here we go.
SOLOMON
Hey Mike, hey Kyle, it’s Solomon from the UK calling with a Gayest & Straightest. So, my straightest this week has been tiling a shower room from floor to ceiling, and the gayest has been humming the Gayish them tune whenever the tiles have not gone up quite straight. Thanks for what you do. Take care.”
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeaaah.
KYLE GETZ
[chuckles] I love that.
MIKE JOHNSON
I love, um- I love the way he says [Britishly] “straightest”.
KYLE GETZ
Mm. Mhm.
MIKE JOHNSON
[chuckles] Uh, yeah, please call in your Gayest & Straightests. We like those.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah!
MIKE JOHNSON
And uh, we will almost always play them, I’m sure. Um… that’s it!
KYLE GETZ
That’s it?
MIKE JOHNSON
We’re flexible.
KYLE GETZ
…We’re homo.
MIKE JOHNSON
We can blow ourselves now.
KYLE GETZ
Oooh! Love it.
MIKE JOHNSON
Um-
KYLE GETZ
Take out that bottom rib. Um, and I want to thank the following Super Gap Bridgers: Andrew Bugbee, William Bryant, Christopher M, John Crawley, Stephen Portch, Joh Stoessel, Harry Shaw, Josh Copeland, Jonathan Montañez, Waddu, Forrest Nail, Patrick Martin, James Barrow, Steve Douglas, Explosive Lasagna, Michael Cubbington, Just Jamie, Kevin Henderson, Tomas B, Timothy Saura, DustySands, AE Coleman, Chris Khachatourians, and Jerome York. Thank you for your support.
MIKE JOHNSON
Thank you for your support. Uh, that is it. This has been Gayish. From the Chris Khachatourians studios, I’m Mike Johnson.
KYLE GETZ
I’m Kyle Getz. Until next week, be butch, be fabulous, be you. See ya.
[Outro music plays, instrumental]
MIKE JOHNSON
Just be you, everybody!
KYLE GETZ
Be you, fuckers.
[Transcriptionist: C Dixon, CMDixonWork@gmail.com]