In this surprisingly deep episode, we talk about the stories of queer farmers, sustainable farming, lesbian farmers, why there’s no farming gayta, and how to date as a farmer.
In this episode: News- 1:13 || Main Topic (Farming)- 13:04 || Gayest & Straightest- 1:12:03
We’re doing a 6-city live show tour! This year, we’ll be going to New York City, Seattle, Chicago, San Francisco, Los Angeles, and Houston. See the tour dates and buy tickets at www.gayishpodcast.com/live.
On the weekly bonus Patreon segment, we talk about why farming apps like Stardew Valley are addictive and whether they’re targeted to gay people. Get bonus audio, video, and other great benefits by joining our Patreon at www.patreon.com/gayishpodcast.
FULL TRANSCRIPT
INTRO MUSIC [MIKE JOHNSON SINGING]
When you know that you are queer but your favorite drink is beer, that’s Gayish. You can bottom without stopping but you can’t stand going shopping, that’s Gayish. Oh, Gayish. You’re probably Gayish. Oh life’s just too short for narrow stereotypes. Oh, it’s Gayish. We’re all so Gayish. It’s Gayish with Mike and Kyle.
MIKE JOHNSON
Hello, everyone in the podcast universe. This is Gayish.
KYLE GETZ
The podcast that has fallen on hard mimes.
MIKE JOHNSON
Uh- M- Uh- Are they allowed to scream?
KYLE GETZ
No.
MIKE JOHNSON
No?
KYLE GETZ
It just sounds like… [silence]
MIKE JOHNSON
Great. I’m Mike Johnson.
KYLE GETZ
I’m Kyle Getz.
MIKE JOHNSON
And we’re here to bridge the gap between sexuality and actuality. And, today…
KYLE GETZ
Today we’re talking about farming!
MIKE JOHNSON
We’re talking about farmin’!
KYLE GETZ
Farmin’.
MIKE JOHNSON
Farmin’… [Kyle chuckles] E-I-E-I-O!
KYLE GETZ
Great. Beautiful.
MIKE JOHNSON
It’s great.
KYLE GETZ
Um, but first…
MIKE JOHNSON
But first… here’s the news. [laughs]
KYLE GETZ
What?
MIKE JOHNSON
Just- That was abrupt. That was abrupt.
KYLE GETZ
Oh, do we wan- We can dally around in this area.
MIKE JOHNSON
Mm, it’s fine.
KYLE GETZ
What’s been goin’ on, Mike?
MIKE JOHNSON
No, it’s fine.
KYLE GETZ
No no, what’s- No, tell me! [chuckles] [Mike laughs] Tell me now, what’s been going on?
MIKE JOHNSON
I’m gonna do some news stories.
KYLE GETZ
Okay.
MIKE JOHNSON
Okay, great.
[News segment intro plays, sung by MIKE JOHNSON]
Shut your mouth hole it’s time for your ear holes, news, news, news.
MIKE JOHNSON
So, on Friday, a federal appeals court ruled that an Indiana school district did not violate a former music teachers rights by forcing him to resign. He was forced to resign because he was refusing to use the names of his trans students.
KYLE GETZ
Oh. Great.
MIKE JOHNSON
The Seventh US Circuit Court of Appeals is upholding a prior judge’s ruling here. Um, but-
KYLE GETZ
You can’t bully your students. Like, that- That’s what- If you don’t use their proper name, you’re, like, bullying a child.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah, well, and- So, of course it’s religion, right? Like, that’s what he’s- That’s what he’s claiming. In 2014, he started teaching music and orchestra at Brownsburg High School, which is northwest of Indianapolis, and teachers were instructed to use the pronouns and names that were listed in the school’s official student database. Parents and doctors could be used to change the pronouns and names in said database. They- When that happened, he said “No.” He said that his “Christian religious beliefs” prevented him from acting in compliance with that school policy and-
KYLE GETZ
Boy, you should find a different job then.
MIKE JOHNSON
-that he had “religious objections” to using trans students’ names and pronouns. So, there was this, like- this fucked up like compromise position where – remember, this is orchestra [Kyle chuckles] – he got around it for a little while by only using their last names.
KYLE GETZ
Oh.
MIKE JOHNSON
So he wouldn’t use pronouns at all, he would just use their last names like they were a fucking football team.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah, foot- Playing football in Texas, everyone called me [doing a gruff voice] “Getz”.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. [laughs]
KYLE GETZ
[doing a gruff voice] “Getz, play sports better! Getz!”
MIKE JOHNSON
So, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so… Yeah, so they rolled out this policy that they had to use what was in the database, and he asked officials whether the rule would apply to him. [Kyle snorts] They responded that he could either abide by it, resign, or be fired. In response, he resigned and sued. So, in its ruling, the court noted that district officials tried to consider his religious objection but realize that using last names by the music teacher disrupted the learning environment. And the court found that students felt disrespected, targeted, and dehumanized.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. Like, it’s not- If someone was just naturally doing that that’d be one thing, but they know what they’re- They know what he’s doing. Like, it’s-
MIKE JOHNSON
Well, and apparently he also was, like, not doing that some of the time for some of the students.
KYLE GETZ
Oh. Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
And, anyway, the court said- The court said “No,” that does not violate your religious freedoms, you dickbag fuckface asshole.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
But that means the next step is the Supreme Court.
KYLE GETZ
Oh, wow!
MIKE JOHNSON
Soooo…. we’ll see how that goes!
KYLE GETZ
God. Oh, boy.
MIKE JOHNSON
Fuck those people.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
Um, okay, next- News the second. So there is a popular gay couple on Russian TikTok…
KYLE GETZ
Okay, that’s-
MIKE JOHNSON
…and they have been arrested-
KYLE GETZ
Oh.
MIKE JOHNSON
-and charged with violating their anti-LGBTQ+ laws.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah…
MIKE JOHNSON
That’s happening this week. Russian Gela Gogishvili… Gonna go with that.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
…Uh, 23, told Newsweek that he and his Chinese national boyfriend, Haoyang Xu, who’s 21, were arrested by police in the city of Kazan on Wednesday and charged under a series of Russian laws that include a ban on the positive depiction of LGBTQ+ persons in media.
KYLE GETZ
Good for them- Like, that sucks that they have to be the person, but good for- I’m always so impressed by people like, that that are like “I know I could definitely go down for this.” And it’s, like, the Russian government, so like who knows what the fuck would happen but, like, that’s awesome.
MIKE JOHNSON
Well, and apparently their TikTok channel was popular. There’s over 370,000 followers and over 65,000 subscribers. Because, in TikTok, I guess, followers and subscribers are different things. Different-
KYLE GETZ
Sure.
MIKE JOHNSON
Different numbers. Rate, review, rubscribe, and recommend, everybody. [Kyle laughs] Um, Gogishvili was released because he’s a Russian national but Haoyang remains in a Russian jail and is facing the threat of deportation… immediately.
KYLE GETZ
Ugh. Ugh.
MIKE JOHNSON
So, the way all of this went down- So, they said, in a video posted to their YouTube channel week before last, that their lives were crazy and they learned that they were under investigation for promoting their life as a gay couple on social media. Xu learned one of the teachers at the university where he is a student received a warning from the police about the content of their social media. They said “‘You can’t behave like that’ and ‘you need to follow the law of Russia and the traditional values of the country,’” “After that, I was very scared.”
KYLE GETZ
Yeah…
MIKE JOHNSON
Um, so then they said that the police started looking for them in March. They visited pharmacies across the city, with a picture of Gogishvili, who was employed as a pharmacist. They also claim police were able to send a message to them via the messaging program WhatsApp.
KYLE GETZ
Oh my god. Getting a WhatsApp message from the police?
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
That’s scary.
MIKE JOHNSON
They were told that they had been charged under the anti-LGBTQ+ laws but only needed to sign some papers and pay a fine. They left them the option of visiting the police station or having an unarmed police officer come to their home. The two men said that they were suspicious because they’d been subjected to hate and abuse in recent years, so they told the police they would “think about it”. On Wednesday, the police stopped the couple at a museum. They were at a museum with friends. They took Xu back to the apartment to retrieve his passport and visa, took the pair to the local police station, they were questioned. Gogishvili said police tried to force the couple to sign papers admitting their guilt, but they refused. And, apparently, their- their supporters- their social media- their TikTok- What’s the- Like, “I watch TikTok”? “I consume TikTok.” “I”-
KYLE GETZ
Uh, a Tokfellow?
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. Like- Yeah, a Tokfellow.
KYLE GETZ
Mhm.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah, their Tokfellows freaked out and so they released- they released Gogishvili and- but, um-
KYLE GETZ
Because- [laughs] Because their fans freaked out? That’s a bad reason to releas-
MIKE JOHNSON
That’s- That’s what The Advocate article claims, anyway.
KYLE GETZ
Huh. That’s a bad reason to relea- [chuckles] I mean, I’m not- I’m happy for them, but that’s a bad reason to release someone from prison.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yep! Anyway, they’re expected to appear in court later today, so something may have happened.
KYLE GETZ
Hm.
MIKE JOHNSON
Um, probably already has happened, it’s just not been reported yet. By the time this goes to the air, for sure has happened. Gogishvili said, quote, “I’m holding in tears because I don’t have time to cry right now.”
KYLE GETZ
Oh, God. That’s so sad.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. Yeah. If they’re convicted, immediate fines and Xu would be immediately deported probably. So…
KYLE GETZ
[sighs] That’s rough.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. Anyway, fuck you, Russia!
KYLE GETZ
Yeah, fuck Russia for so many reasons.
MIKE JOHNSON
[laughs] Uh, news the last. So- First of all, Easter eggs are the drag queens of the dairy world, and-
KYLE GETZ
[chuckles] Okay. Okay, okay. I just needed a second to get there. [Mike laughs] Okay. I think I’m with ya.
MIKE JOHNSON
So, for Easter, in WeHo yesterday, there were 1000s of demonstrators in colorful outfits in a march of solidarity with drag queens and other LGBTQ+ individuals who right-wing extremist policies across the country have been attacking lately! They called it their “first annual Drag March” and, uh, yeah. It’s- The pictures are adorable. There’s, of course, you know, shitloads of drag queens, and lots of just very queer people, and colors, and glitter, and just- It’s what- I think Jesus would approve.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah!
MIKE JOHNSON
He is risen. Let’s party. [Kyle laughs] Also, in San Francisco, they always have the Hunky Jesus contest-
KYLE GETZ
What?!
MIKE JOHNSON
-on Sundays. Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
I’ve not heard of that.
MIKE JOHNSON
A fraternity brother of mine went to that, and knows the guy that won, apparently.
KYLE GETZ
Huh!
MIKE JOHNSON
He’s won many years in a row. Anyway-
KYLE GETZ
I went as gay Jesus, one Halloween.
MIKE JOHNSON
I bet you were good at it.
KYLE GETZ
I cut my robe real short. Like, lil shorty robe.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. And-
KYLE GETZ
Crown of thorns hurts, man.
MIKE JOHNSON
Well, I think it’s the point… [chuckles]
KYLE GETZ
It was very- It was- I got a plastic one that was a little too tight, so it legitimately hurt me. I was like “I know what Jesus went through.”
MIKE JOHNSON
[chuckles] Of the two of us, You’re the Jesus-y one. Um-
KYLE GETZ
[chuckles] Thanks.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. Uh, California Democratic State Senator Scott Wiener attended the event, spoke to everybody. He’s been out since the early 90s and he said, quote, “If you had said to me that in 2023 we would still have to be arguing about whether we have a right to exist — that they would still be calling us pedophiles and predators and groomers — if you had told me that, I would’ve said, ‘there’s no way that in 2023, that’s what would be happening.’” “They don’t want to talk about the fact that children are getting shot and killed in classrooms in this country. They don’t want to talk about the fact that so many people are dying of drug overdoses because of lack of access to health care. They don’t want to talk about the climate emergency or income inequality or any of the real issues that are facing our country.” “What do they want to talk about?” “That drag queens and trans people are somehow the biggest threat to this country. That’s what they want to talk about.”
KYLE GETZ
Because they’re the ones that are causing all the other shit, so they can’t talk about- Like, they get too much money from gun- like the NRA and gun lobbyists to, like- They can’t- They gotta turn the focus on something else and, unfortunately, I think it’s working for them.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah… Fuck. Fuck, Kyle, I wanted happy drag queens marching to be like the positive anchor story for the news today! [laughs]
KYLE GETZ
Aw, shit! I mean, it’s- The idea that our- Our community has been through shit, and will continue to go through shit, and will always come together, and work together, and fight for our rights because we’re the ones that have each other’s backs. Like, that’s- That’s something you could depend on from the LGBT community.
MIKE JOHNSON
You know what else you can depend on, Kyle?
KYLE GETZ
Uhh, Depends.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yes.
KYLE GETZ
I’m depending on them right now.
MIKE JOHNSON
[chuckles] Yep. Also… [Kyle makes a strained sound] don’t fuck with drag queens.
KYLE GETZ
Don’t fuck with drag queens, man!
MIKE JOHNSON
Fuck around and find out!
KYLE GETZ
[chuckles] Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
Uh, that’s the news.
KYLE GETZ
That’s the news! Um, speaking of the most beautiful people I know, I want to thank the following-
MIKE JOHNSON
I’m right here, Kyle!
KYLE GETZ
I want to thank Michael Johnson, my beautiful co-host! [both chuckle]
MIKE JOHNSON
Yaaayy!
KYLE GETZ
And no one else.
MIKE JOHNSON
Great.
KYLE GETZ
Um, but also some subpar people to throw in [chuckles] as well. Uh, Lindsay Rae Barnes… You have three names like a serial killer.
MIKE JOHNSON
Mhm. Mhm.
KYLE GETZ
Uh, Thomas Robertson-
MIKE JOHNSON
Oh, Barnes! Barnes on the farming episode!
KYLE GETZ
Barnes! [gasp]
MIKE JOHNSON
[laughs] Did you plan that?
KYLE GETZ
Nnnnn- Yesss.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yep! [laughs]
KYLE GETZ
Uh, Thomas Robertson… You know, like… sons? People’s sons work on farms.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
[gasps] Crazy coincidence. And also, Kevin loves Danny Carrillo.
MIKE JOHNSON
[chuckles] Okay, Kevin.
KYLE GETZ
I think you owe us $25 for 100 words there. [chuckles] [Mike laughs] I think you can’t sneak the secret messages into your username.
MIKE JOHNSON
Did you just “Bob Wehadababyitsaboy” [both laugh] your collect call?
KYLE GETZ
Yes. Yes. Umm, anyway, no. Kevin, that was very smart and we hope that Danny Carrillo loves you back. If you want to join our Patreon, get bonus content, episodes, you know just support us, a lot of shit, then go to patreon.com/gayishpodcast.
MIKE JOHNSON
While we’re in the Patreon section, I posted a message to Patreon to clarify that the discount code for the live show tour is gonna go up on May 1st so just be patient.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah, you will get specific code to any of the six shows that we are doing this year, discount code. You can use it at any time to get a discount on your tickets.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yep!
KYLE GETZ
So, yay.
MIKE JOHNSON
Great.
KYLE GETZ
Do you wanna talk about farming?
MIKE JOHNSON
Let’s talk about farming. So, I’m gonna open this up-
KYLE GETZ
No, I am.
MIKE JOHNSON
Oh, okay.
KYLE GETZ
This Urban Dictionary-
MIKE JOHNSON
See how- See how easy that was?
KYLE GETZ
[laughs] Okay, this Urban Dictionary term had zero upvotes and one downvote-
MIKE JOHNSON
Great.
KYLE GETZ
-and it is “Gay Farmer”.
MIKE JOHNSON
Great.
KYLE GETZ
The definition is: “A Jolly Rancher”. [Mike laughs] That’s my Urban Dictionary section.
MIKE JOHNSON
Great.
KYLE GETZ
Okay, now back to you, Mike.
MIKE JOHNSON
Awesome.
KYLE GETZ
[chuckles] First, maybe something substantial. I also- Oh, on the Patreon segment, I will share with you what “gay farming”- their definition for “gay farming”. It’s nasty.
MIKE JOHNSON
[chuckles] It’s nasty?
KYLE GETZ
It’s nasty.
MIKE JOHNSON
Okay, great.
MIKE JOHNSON
So, we’ll- That’s- We’re gonna hold that for the Patreon segment, but go ahead. What do you got, Mike?
MIKE JOHNSON
Okay. Okay, great. [Kyle laughs] Um, so-
KYLE GETZ
I’m done for this episode, by the way. That’s all I had for this episode. It’s all you.
MIKE JOHNSON
I mean…
KYLE GETZ
I’m chillin’.
MIKE JOHNSON
It’s done.
KYLE GETZ
It’s done.
MIKE JOHNSON
Great. It’s our show, we can do what we want.
KYLE GETZ
Alley-oop.
MIKE JOHNSON
Okay, so, like, obviously not gonna talk about the history of farming. I think it’s been around for… ever.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
What is missing from the history of farming is, like a lot of other parts of history, queer people.
KYLE GETZ
Mmm. Yeah, yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
It’s very, very difficult for me to find anything that had to do with, like, gay queer people in a farming context-
KYLE GETZ
Huh.
MIKE JOHNSON
-with one exception. [Kyle gasps] One of the earliest written defenses of gay people was found in a farmer’s diary from January of 1810. So there was a- There was a naval surgeon that was being executed for sodomy, and he wrote in his journal “It appears a paradox to me, how men, who are men, shou’d possess such a passion; and more particularly so, if it is their nature from childhood (as I am informed it is) – If they feel such an inclination, and propensity, at that certain time of life when youth genders [and develops] into manhood; it must then be considered as natural otherwise, as a defect in nature […] it seems cruel to punish that defect with death.”
KYLE GETZ
Yeah!
MIKE JOHNSON
So, anyway- So-
KYLE GETZ
When was that from?
MIKE JOHNSON
Uh, 1810.
KYLE GETZ
1810…
MIKE JOHNSON
January of 1810, he wrote his journal.
KYLE GETZ
Damn! That’s pretty early.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. Yeah, super-duper early. And Matthew Tomlinson was his name, he was a farmer from West Yorkshire in northern England. Anyway, that’s like one of the first examples of somebody writing out their thoughts about why maybe we shouldn’t kill gay people. Anyway-
KYLE GETZ
Should I just, like, journal more, in case something I have to say is relevant and, like-
MIKE JOHNSON
No, that’s what we’re doing now!
KYLE GETZ
Ohhhh.
MIKE JOHNSON
The internet is forever.
KYLE GETZ
That’s true.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah, I’m doin’- I’m actively doing it.
MIKE JOHNSON
And it’s only a matter of time before we’re cancelled for everything that we’ve said.
KYLE GETZ
Before someone cares- Oh. [both chuckle]
MIKE JOHNSON
Um, but then, you also usually talk about gayta, which you informed me in the production meeting, because we have those, that you don’t have gayta. And here’s maybe why.
KYLE GETZ
Wow, kind of calling me out.
MIKE JOHNSON
Well… but here’s maybe why: no definitive figures measure how many LGBTQ people farm in America. The USDA, the US Department of Agriculture, asks respondents to identify their sex in its five year Census, but not their sexual orientation or gender identity. The Department is considering adding those questions to the 2027 Census. It conducted a pilot study, in late 2021, to gauge whether their inclusion would affect response rates. What do you think happened?
KYLE GETZ
They went up.
MIKE JOHNSON
Responses significantly decreased-
KYLE GETZ
Ohhh.
MIKE JOHNSON
-when those questions were added, despite the survey’s confidentiality. The study lacked possible explanations for that finding, but I’m curious what you think is going on.
KYLE GETZ
Is that, like, your family’s there like watching over you or something? Like…
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah, I mean-
KYLE GETZ
Or you’re worried, even if it says it’s confidential, you’re like worried by just like writing it down that someone actually will know and they can trace your handwriting or, like, they- like, the government is gonna… you know, is actually tracking this and has a list of people? Like, I wonder if there’s paranoia.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah, uh, maybe? I think that there’s- There’s likely some of that, right? Like, I don’t have the answers either, but I’m gonna guess- Having grown up in that environment, I’m going to guess that it is a combination of paranoia and a combination of the power of self-deception.
KYLE GETZ
Mm.
MIKE JOHNSON
Like, writing shit down makes it real.
KYLE GETZ
Mmm…
MIKE JOHNSON
And a lot of that life, that existence, is denial of reality. [chuckles] Um, and living this carefully constructed version of yourself that fits in.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
And we’re gonna talk a lot more about that…
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
…uh, comin’ up. Anyway, that’s- But, like, apparently, we’ve just not been actually studying or like collecting the data for how many people out there are queer. There was one researcher, who did a cross reference with a couple of national databases to figure out which married couples were same-sex married couples.
KYLE GETZ
Mmm.
MIKE JOHNSON
So we have some data on same-sex couples that own farms, but it’s not very good data.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah, that’s rough because you can be a opposite-gender couple and someone’s bi or someone’s trans. Like, there’s- There’s a million reasons that undercounts- But it makes sense, like, at a minimum, like you at least get something rather than nothing. I can see that. As long as you then factor in- The downside of having a, like, any kind of number is, like, then that’s the number just people grab on to.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
Even if you’re like “Ah, this isn’t totally accurate. Here’s what we have,” then people just latch on to that number, and I see this all the time when using data. It’s, like- Sometimes I tell like my clients or whatever like “I will not give you this information, because it’s wr- it’s so off.”
MIKE JOHNSON
Mhm. Mhm.
KYLE GETZ
It’s like… “And I know you say that you know that it’s off, but then I’m gonna say it and then in two weeks you’re gonna be like ‘Nope, that’s the number!’ and I’m gonna”- Like, you know, sometimes it’s better to not say a number.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yep. Yep, I’m with you. I’m with you.
KYLE GETZ
But, like, I mean, I would still rather add it in and have people- some people not report it and still, like- Because you’re basing it on not- Not everyone’s filling it out regardless. Like, that’s just gonna be how some of these things work, and I’d rather have like that question and then we can start to get some percentages with those that do fill it out.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yep. Yep. I- Yeah, I agree. Hopefully- Hopefully, they decide to include it, because I think it’s important, but, um-
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. Doesn’t the- Does the US Census now have sexual orientation on it? Did that finally change?
MIKE JOHNSON
The federal Cen-
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
The 10 year Census?
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
I don’t believe so.
KYLE GETZ
I think- Because I thought they- There was like a whole thing, under Trump, where like they had it on the draft but then it got removed. Like, I don’t know that we s-
MIKE JOHNSON
That’s ringin’ a bell. That seems like something that dickbag fuckface asshole would do, right?
KYLE GETZ
[chuckles] We- I forget if we now ask that, but it was something like- I don’t know that- It’s not like this is completely behind the times, [chuckles] it’s just like kind of on par with where we are at just asking some of these basic questions that we should be, which is silly.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yep.
KYLE GETZ
Well, so, even though we don’t- Oh, we didn’t mention why we’re doing this. We had a- Our- Every month-
MIKE JOHNSON
Oh, yeah. Patreon.
KYLE GETZ
-we have a- Oh, yeah, Patron. Every month, we have a Patreon vote on one of three topics. You keep on winning.
MIKE JOHNSON
I keep on winning, yeah.
KYLE GETZ
Over and over. And this was your topic, and herem we are.
MIKE JOHNSON
Herem we are. Also, Gap Bridgers, why do you vote differently than everyone else?
KYLE GETZ
It’s so interesting, y’all have such different- [Mike laughs] If you want to really influence what we talk about, the Gap Bridgers, the ones at our $50 level, are the ones that get to vote every month on these topics. Um, and then we do have tiebreakers just in case because that tends to happen, and that helps inform what we might do for our monthly Patreon episode. But yeah, y’all have your own tastes. Y’all-
MIKE JOHNSON
Y’all march to the beat of your own meat.
KYLE GETZ
Farmer. [Mike laughs] Uh, this- Also, on our survey, we have a ton of ideas that we got from our survey that are on our list of ideas to consider and “rural” was one of the topics that several people filled in themselves. So, you know, we’re touching on rural things by way of this. So, thank you for all the topics y’all suggested on the survey. Yeah, so the most academic thing I have is a thesis that was written about queer farming, and one of the areas- It was 100 and fucking something pages, so I did not read the whole thing. I read the section where the person, uh, Michaela Hoffelmeyer – that sounds like a name I would have made up, but it is Hoffelmeyer – interviewed and observed 20 queer farmers. So that’s what I’m gonna tell you about, the findings that they had from there. So this is from the thesis “Sexuality and Sustainable Agriculture: Queer Farmers in the Northeastern U.S.” This is a thesis in Rural Sociology, 2019, for the Pennsylvania State University. So, Michaela conducted interviews and observed 20 queer farmers in the Northeastern US, and just here’s some bullet points of what they found. First of all, queer farmer’s motivations for being in sustainable agriculture. You looked at being gay in farming, did sustainable agriculture come up for you?
MIKE JOHNSON
Uh, well, I did see that… Did I even write this down? God. I- I did- I did see that there is some evidence to suggest that gay people are more interested in organic farming, sustainable farming.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
…Yeah, so-
KYLE GETZ
That’s what I tended to see, and that’s what this says as well. Queer farmer’s motivations for being involved in sustainable farming is, first of all, the environmental benefits. So, like, the good-hearted, good-natured reason of actually wanting those benefits, and, in addition, the assumption that sustainable agriculture has greater inclusion of women and, by extension, queer people.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
So queer people, it said, may be disproportionately involved in sustainable agricultural production. And it was noting that that may even be- You know, we should, of course support queer farmers, but maybe even more important to support queer farmers because they may be the ones that push for and lead the way in sustainable agriculture.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
To counter homophobia, many farmers embody what the thesis called “Rural Politics of Recognition”. So, that was presenting as “just another farmer” to help build relationships and rapport with other farmers, with their customers, with other community members. It is very different than the urban kind of liberal “Be out and proud,” message.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
So some of the, you know, messages in big cities or urban areas may not resonate with them because, like, it’s like… yo, you might not know, [chuckles] like, what that would be like here.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
But we’ve also seen- You know, we’ve done episodes about our history and people saying “You should act- like, fit in with others in order to prove that we are just like you,” versus other people saying like “No. Like, we don’t have to be like you to gain acceptance.”
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
Like, we’ve seen that kind of struggle throughout history. So this is not a new struggle, it’s just a different kind of manifestation of that struggle.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yep. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The tension has been there for a long time.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
The assimilationists versus the other ones.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. The non-assimilationists. [both chuckle] A quote I liked is “Queer farmers often associated uncertainty, fear, and isolation with living rurally, simultaneously, emphasizing an attachment to rural landscapes, nature, and farmland.” So, we, I think, talked about this in our “Hometown” episode where we talked about rural living as well. And it is this, like- There is something that people are drawn to, the rural… nature, living there, being there, and it makes sense that some people like that, some people like cities, and we should have a big mix- You’d expect a big mix of people. The influx to the cities is not because everyone loves cities.
MIKE JOHNSON
Right.
KYLE GETZ
Some people do, but not everyone, and some people want to be out in the country livin’ this- live in rural areas and love the nature of it, and it’s unfortunate that it comes along with the uncertainty, fear, and isolation. So what helps is the “chosen family farm” model, which some people use these community-based living or farming units. Uh, living together on a community, in my mind, is the like “Hey, what if we all lived on a commune together?” [chuckles] like, with your friends.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. Millennials are obsessed with this idea. Get the commune going.
KYLE GETZ
[chuckles] Yeah. Yep. And- Which makes sense when you’re queer, to be like “Yo, do you wanna, like- Do we wanna, like, help each other out?” They also do these mentorships where, like, queer farmers can help those working on farm- queer people working on farms as a way to kind of bolster each other. Numerous of these farmers interviewed face sexism in addition to heterosexism, which, that- You know, those kinds of things make sense to me, come hand in hand. And, of course, the law is part of that. Marriage wasn’t legal until 2015, so that has, of course, implications for loan access and land tenure. But something else legal, that I was unaware of, is, prior to inheritance law changes in 1981, women married to male husbands were not considered legal owners of farms when their husbands died.
MIKE JOHNSON
Wow, yeah.
KYLE GETZ
So, I mean, 1981, that’s not that long ago. It would be easy for someone to be married in their 20s or 30s and still have a farm today and, like, have been directly affected by that. That very law.
MIKE JOHNSON
This whole idea that, like, all of these horrific bullshit problems are way in the past-
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
Like civil rights. People are like “Ah, civil rights is forever ago.”
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
“It’s- Like, it’s- Everything’s fine.”
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
“Stop whining, black people,” or whatever.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
But, like, no. Like, it is in living memory that all of this shit was going down. And-
KYLE GETZ
Yes. And, even when laws change, that doesn’t – which, I mean, in this case I’m talking about like this one law that did change – that doesn’t automatically change people’s mentality and their, like, how they were raised and their views.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
So, like- Yeah. Speaking of, 95% of the sample was identified as white- or, identified as white. So this researcher was careful to note that. I think noting where your limitations are- They pointed out why- like, what their sampling technique might have done to cause that. And, uh- But still, some of the queer farmers explained how white privilege allowed them to enter the farming space despite being queer. It’s, you know, what we say often. Like, you can have a strike against you but at least, you know, it’s not two.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yep.
KYLE GETZ
So I- So it’s, I think, useful that, in spite of being a mostly white sample, that these white people recognize that their- things are clearly not perfect for queer farmers, but they still were afforded the- That’s the thing of white privilege, is it doesn’t have to be great for you to still be afforded some kind of benefits that come along with being white. And they suspected that the ability- that being queer enables you to understand the plight of other minorities, which I agree with and I think has helped me in understanding and empathizing with the plight of other minorities that are beyond just my own. Um, and lastly, uh, I will just read this quote. “The combination of metronormativity in LGBT spaces”, which, “metronormativity” showed up a bunch and… you’re nodding. Yeah, like, that’s-
MIKE JOHNSON
I think it’s a great word.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah, yeah. And makes sense. It’s common within the gay spaces of, like, that’s kind of the assumption that that’s the way to go, that’s what you’ll do, that’s how you’re safe, that’s how you find other people. Um, so “The combination of metronormativity in LGBT spaces, coupled with heteronormativity in agriculture, has [primarily] left queer farmers to [develop] their own strategies and support networks to enter and remain in farming.” It seems like both agriculture and LGBT people- My read of that is, like… no one’s really helping them and so they have to create their own networks. This is why they create their – they didn’t call it communes, but – their community living. Like, they- Their mentorship- Like, they have to create these things because others aren’t. Like, I don’t hear LGBT people talking about the issues of rural living that much or the, like, the plight of rural- of queer farmers. Like, that’s not an issue that we’re focused on. At least, that I see.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah, no, I agree. I agree. And it’s interesting, because I think it’s probably because they are just, you know, flying under the radar as much as possible because of how oppressive those parts of the world can be.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. And it’s interesting, like- Like I said, like, you don’t- You shouldn’t have to have a reason to support queer people, that should be a self-fulfilling- No, self- That’s just- should be…
MIKE JOHNSON
Evident?
KYLE GETZ
Yes. Like, that’s just how it should be.
MIKE JOHNSON
Mhm.
KYLE GETZ
And, maybe there’s value in supporting queer people beyond just the it’s the right human thing to do to support sustainable agriculture, which we need anyway if the Earth isn’t gonna die in a ball of heat death in like two years.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yep. Yep.
KYLE GETZ
So there’s actually extra value for lots of people if that happens.
MIKE JOHNSON
It’s so interesting how many different ways that segues nicely. [Kyle gasps] Like, it’s weird. It’s really, really weird. So, I want to talk to you about some experiences of some queer farmers and-
KYLE GETZ
Ooo, okay.
MIKE JOHNSON
-like what it’s like for them. The first one is Shannon and Eve Mingalone, and they are doing this work, exactly that you were talking about, of being the change they want to see in the world or, like, bringing the queer. Anyway-
KYLE GETZ
Did you say “bringing the queer”?
MIKE JOHNSON
Bringing the queer.
KYLE GETZ
Bring the queer, bring the funk.
MIKE JOHNSON
They said, in this article in NOLA.com, which I don’t even know what that is, if you ask yourself to picture a farmer – just picture a farmer – he is: [both chuckle] “[Male, white,] heterosexual, Christian, and conservative” and-
KYLE GETZ
Oh, he’s also wearing, um, overalls.
MIKE JOHNSON
Overalls.
KYLE GETZ
Which, I really want overalls. That’s how I support queer farmers: by being gay and wearing overalls.
MIKE JOHNSON
I mean, I’ve seen some porn…
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
…that takes place on hay bales and, you know.
KYLE GETZ
[chuckles] Mhm.
MIKE JOHNSON
Um, anyways-
KYLE GETZ
But yes.
MIKE JOHNSON
So, they said we vowed to make our farmers market booth, quote, “very gay.”
KYLE GETZ
[chuckles] Oh, nice. Wow, they’re not doing the, like, “Let’s just fit in,” kind of method.
MIKE JOHNSON
Right.
KYLE GETZ
That’s awesome.
MIKE JOHNSON
So they hang strings of pride flags and they sell rainbow stickers to help pay for gender-affirming care like hormone replacement therapy for Eve. And they said that sometimes parents and their teens will go by the booth and the adults will give them glances or looks of disapproval and then they’ll, like, grab the kids and rush them along, but they said “The kids pause for a second look.” And Shannon, who’s 34, hopes that it means something for them to see LGBTQ professionals out and succeeding.
KYLE GETZ
That’s amaz- Like, it’s- It’s interesting, like, just having- knowing that there is at least – you know, in this case – two other people that are supportive.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yep.
KYLE GETZ
Knowing that there is someone in the world that is supportive of that, someone that is like you. I think of queer Jews and I just think of like the idea of, you know, even conservative Jewish people that are queer walking into gay spaces and, like, being like, you know, finding someone else like you. Like, man, your specific kind of niche, who you are growing up and everything, finding someone else like you is so important. That’s awesome.
MIKE JOHNSON
Well, and they said that people often will come up to them and their gay-ass booth and, like, whisper stories to them, right?
KYLE GETZ
Ohhhh, interesting.
MIKE JOHNSON
There was a middle-aged woman who confided that her daughter is trans, and felt safe talking to them about that.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
There was a teen who stood in the middle of the booth and said, quote, “This makes me feel safe.”
KYLE GETZ
Aww.
MIKE JOHNSON
And so Shannon said “That means everything to me.” And, anyway, that’s at, uh- Their business is Ramshackle Farm, it’s in Harvard, Illinois, and they grow a whole bunch of stuff. And they talk mostly about how, like, yeah, it’s conservative, kind of uncomfortable, and there’s not a lot of community but this is what we’re doing. We’re farming and we’re trying to be as visible as possible when we’re out and selling our stuff. Then I also wanted to talk to you, really quickly, it’s not just in the United States that these kinds of things are true. So, Ralf Schaab, who’s the co-founder of gayfarmer.de – which, that’s Germany – in Wiesbaden, Germany, was interviewed and they asked him “How is it as a German gay farmer?” and his answer was-
KYLE GETZ
Guten Tagen.
MIKE JOHNSON
…Probably in German, [Kyle laughs] but here it is in English: “Well, before you know you are gay, at least in my case, you know that [you’re] a farmer. I was born into farming and knew from the start that I wanted to be a farmer.”
KYLE GETZ
That’s wild to me, [Mike chuckles] like, that your identity is more… and it makes sense now that you say it, but more sure that you’re a farmer than your identity as a gay person. Okay.
MIKE JOHNSON
He says “In the beginning, you feel lonely because there are so few others like you around – and you feel even more lonely when you discover that you are gay.” “Farming takes me to places in areas where, being gay, sometimes you have to be strong in yourself and know who you are in order to claim your identity. Farming is the same way. The world is not set out to groom farmers. You have to be strong and resilient to keep alive. The two identities have intersected highly in my own development.”
KYLE GETZ
Hm. Yeah, I could never be a farmer. [Mike laughs] Like, you- I do- I do- I can see how you kind of have to be born into that, like, to be- I grew up in the suburbs, man.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
I couldn’t- I couldn’t do it.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. Yeah. You could though, just, you would hate it.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. [chuckles]
MIKE JOHNSON
Um, then I watched- So that was Germany. There’s also, in New Zealand, this really interesting interview that I saw on Vice and there was a out gay farmer named Matt talking about all of the closeted gay farmers that he fucks on the side, [Kyle gasps] many of whom-
KYLE GETZ
Hoooot!
MIKE JOHNSON
-are married and have kids-
KYLE GETZ
Ohhh. Scandalous.
MIKE JOHNSON
-are, like, super super DL closeted.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. Whoops.
MIKE JOHNSON
He said a couple of interesting things, I thought. One of them, he was flipping the interviewer’s shit, who- It was a gay guy that was doing the interview and he’s like, how does even work? Like, do you just, like- ‘Cause they pulled up his Grindr and the first person on the grid was four kilometers away and he was like, how does that wo- Like, do you walk over there? Do you- [Kyle laughs] Can you get an Uber or something? And Matt, the gay farmer-
KYLE GETZ
Hop on a tractor, or…?
MIKE JOHNSON
He said, quote, “[Well,] this is the difference between city gays and rural gays, we learned how to drive.” [both laugh] Um, he said that there is this very sad entrenchment of gay people, that they get stuck in these heterosexual marriages and they get stuck with kids, and running a farm, and in isolation, and he said even though that he is out they are very cold and very distant, very adamant about him not contacting them.
KYLE GETZ
I mean, to be fair, those are the kind of guys I’m into as well. Like, you’re not special. [laughs]
MIKE JOHNSON
Well we talked about assholes, right? Like- [laughs]
KYLE GETZ
I get it. I get it, farmers. [chuckles]
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah, but uh- They, um- They seem so terrified to even, like, run into him on the street and a lot of them are like openly hostile to him when they see him.
KYLE GETZ
Well it’s like you gotta prove- If you’re worried about coming across as being interested, then you gotta prove that you’re not by being mean.
MIKE JOHNSON
Right.
KYLE GETZ
Like, this is why sometimes people that are most… animus- Is that a word?
MIKE JOHNSON
“Animus” is a word.
KYLE GETZ
…towards gay people are the ones that are gay themselves.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. It’s a noun though, not an adjective.
KYLE GETZ
Oh.
MIKE JOHNSON
Anyway, okay.
KYLE GETZ
Well, I need it to be a verb.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
No.
MIKE JOHNSON
Matt in New Zealand also said some aren’t on the apps to hook up, even. They’re looking for some semblance of acceptance.
KYLE GETZ
Aw, [makes mild sobbing sound] I wanna cry… [Mike laughs] to water your crops with my tears.
MIKE JOHNSON
Uh-
KYLE GETZ
It also- Like, I would imagine that, unlike city folk- Like, when you get divorced you can like “Okay, let’s-” It’s not just deciding who gets the house or not. It’s- Like, this is also the family business that you’re breaking up. Like-
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
You can’t just be like “Okay, leave you, honey and the kids, with the farm and I’m leaving.” Like, there’s so much more like you have at stake there and have built… sometimes literally.
MIKE JOHNSON
Absolutely. And, like, there was- Well, okay, I’ll do this one next instead. This one also pulls in sustainable farming. So, there’s a guy named Jon Wright and he’s in Australia and- [Kyle gasps] What? Are you gonna talk about him?
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
Okay, great, then I won’t.
KYLE GETZ
Should I tell- Should I talk about him or should I put a butt plug in it?
MIKE JOHNSON
Uh, put a butt plug in him.
KYLE GETZ
Okay, okay, okay. Okay.
MIKE JOHNSON
You’re gonna talk about the sustainable shit that he’s doing?
KYLE GETZ
Okay, great.
MIKE JOHNSON
I mean, it’s pretty magical. And then in, um- In the UK, Manchester’s a big city. It’s a very gay city in the in the UK, but there’s this guy named Keith who’s an English farmer out in the boonies and he said, quote, “If you are gay and you live in Manchester, you can go anonymously into gay areas and meet people. When you’re a farmer, you have to make massive arrangements to get off the farm. Who’s going to do the milking? Who’s going to feed the cattle? You can’t just decide to go away for the weekend,” and “On top of that, if you suddenly go away, people are going to ask [you] where you’re going.”
KYLE GETZ
[laughs] Yeah, no one asks me where I am, like, on weekends or like various days. Like, I just do shit.
MIKE JOHNSON
But, rural life? Your absence will be noted and people will ask you where you’ve been-
KYLE GETZ
God…
MIKE JOHNSON
-or what you were doing. And, like, they chat at the fuckin’ grocery store about fucking everything, like you’re supposed to care about each other’s lives. [Kyle chuckles] I do kind of miss that sometimes, but it’s, like-
KYLE GETZ
Oh.
MIKE JOHNSON
Anyway. Anyway, he said “They are very, very isolated. The loneliness is enormous.” Um, those are all gay men. I’m gonna talk to you more about lesbians a little bit later.
KYLE GETZ
It’s sad that, like, it seems like there’s- It seems like we’re talking about a lot of negative associations with being gay and being a farmer.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah… Yeah. I mean, like, farmer, it’s agrarian, it’s agricultural, it’s rural and all of the gays live in the city, right? Like, there’s a- You’ve gotta really fuckin’ love farming, I think, or have no other options, to live under the oppression that is rural society.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
I don’t know. I don’t know that there’s a more positive spin on it, except all of these gay-owned farms that, you know, seem to be thriving in one way or the other, or they’re trying to create community.
KYLE GETZ
Creating their own community, and the ones that are making a difference so that, like, hopefully generations will change, and grow, and learn from them. I think that’s like part of the positive. Um, but yeah, it seems like loneliness is a common theme among queer farming.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yep. Yep. In the stuff that I read, certainly.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
Should I- Oh.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah, go ahead and talk about Jon, Jon Wright.
KYLE GETZ
Um, Jon Wright. I watched – it as a easy, 20-25 minute – documentary from The New Yorker, called “Alone Out Here”. So, it’s an interesting watch if you want to. So, first of all, Australia’s carbon emissions output per capita is among the world’s highest. Red meat industry produces about 10% of Australia’s greenhouse gases, and 2/3 of that come from cattle, so it is a big issue. Jon Wright is someone that has been speaking out about that, including at industry events. So this based on not only the documentary, but also the accompanying article that I read in the New Yorker.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
And he said that, when he speaks out about this issue, people genuinely despise not just him but anyone who does bring it up. And, he said, “They thought you were a bit of a loony.”
MIKE JOHNSON
Yep.
KYLE GETZ
So, there was this documentary created about some of the work he’s trying to do. It was a government arts grant earmarked for works about queer people living in rural places, which is, I think, a really cool kind of government grant-
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
-idea and concept, showing- I think showing some of these unique areas of queer life that we don’t typically see is a really cool idea, because I think that’s really helpful to show that there’s huge varieties of queer people. And, um, anyway, so the documentary is called “A Gay Farmer on Love, Isolation, and Disrupting the Meat Industry in Australia”. Um, he, for 22 years, has been working on a line of cattle that reduces methane output.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeaaaah, let’s make cows that fart less!
KYLE GETZ
[chuckles] Yeah. I too have been working on reducing my methane output. [Mike laughs] It has- He has been more successful than I.
MIKE JOHNSON
I mean, he’s been trying harder for longer, I think.
KYLE GETZ
He’s been trying- And he’s been- Well, I mean, we’ve both been breeding [chuckles] [Mike laughs] a whole lot to get to where we are. Um… so I get it, John. He came out at the age of 28. It was interesting, I think he said, like, his- It sounded like this Rumspringa kind of thing. Like, his family said like “You are not allowed to be on the farm until you’re 25, and if you want to come back you can,” and he decided to come back. He- His dad let him go off and do other things, and then he was the one that decided to come back. So he’s made this big decision about being involved in farming, which, that- I think there’s the- kind of the positive side, is like this is the life he’s chosen, but also it does come with a cost, which is it’s difficult to date. He, I think, has dated one person. He picked the family business over moving. You know, his option- His other option was going to Sydney and dating. And the filmmaker of this, Cornish, who has been looking at lots of people in rural areas said, quote, “It was always this consistent story, of the stakes being incredibly high, because if you have a date with somebody, it has to go well.”
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
Which, that’s terrifying. Like, at least- I’m- You know, I bitch about, like [in a whiny voice] “No, there’s no one on apps,” and I go on a date and I’m like “Neh,” and then, like, you know, keep going.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah, yeah. [chuckles]
KYLE GETZ
Like, you know, that’s very different. Imagine the stakes of, like, the guy one farm over happens to be gay and you’re like “Oh, God, please be hot.”
MIKE JOHNSON
There’s a- There’s another angle to that, I forget if we talked about it before.
KYLE GETZ
What?
MIKE JOHNSON
I kind of wonder if people are nicer…? Okay, I don’t- It’s not settling, that’s not what I mean, but I wonder if, a lot of rural areas, the gays that do find each other are less distracted.
KYLE GETZ
Hm.
MIKE JOHNSON
Like, they’re more able to commit because there’s- um, there isn’t that like paralysis by too many options.
KYLE GETZ
Hm. Hm!
MIKE JOHNSON
You know what I’m sayin’?
KYLE GETZ
I guess so. I also don’t like the idea that, like- That kind of feeds into the stereotype that gay men cheat just because there are other- Like, you see another gay dude and you’re like “Oh, cool, another gay dude,” and then they fuck ‘em, you know? So, I don’t love that part of it.
MIKE JOHNSON
I just think that, like, all of the- The way that people behave on the apps suggests to me that they’re, like- they don’t want to make any sort of commitment because they’re waiting for, like, maybe somebody hotter will.
KYLE GETZ
Mmm, yeah. Yeah, yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
And then nothing happens.
KYLE GETZ
I could see that.
MIKE JOHNSON
And… I don’t know.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah, I g- You may, like, give it a more of a shot with someone. You may, like- If you have far less options, you may be like “Let’s really see if there’s anything here.”
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
And maybe that could help it… go a little bit deeper than just “Do I think you’re hot right away? Do I swipe left or right?” Like-
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah, I can see that. Um, so the entire documentary builds up to this bull sale where he’s seeing if people are willing to buy the- this new line of bulls-
MIKE JOHNSON
Lower-farting cows!
KYLE GETZ
Lower-farting cows, yep. [chuckles] Um, and the answer is no, [chuckles] they’re not, they don’t.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeaaah.
KYLE GETZ
And he’s like- talks about, like, if we just went with Angus, if I just did this easier option, I would absolutely be selling them right now. Like, he picked a path that was the difficult path. He said- He also said, quote, “The more battles you create in your life, the less time there is to hear the silence and the emptiness.”
MIKE JOHNSON
Whew. Whew.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. So I wonder if there’s- We talked about the connection between being queer and fighting for sustainable agriculture and, you know, he’s clearly working on more sustainable practices, and it’s interesting- You know, we both, in white privilege, and understanding other minorities, and understanding the truth behind things, and accepting of the truth even when it’s difficult… like, those are a lot of reasons I could picture someone being in sustainable farming. But to create battles in order to not have to deal with the crushing loneliness, is not one of the ones I considered.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. Whew.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
I just drank. [both laugh]
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. Hey, farmers, have you considered drinking? [Mike laughs] As Linda Belcher says, it doesn’t solve your problems, it just makes them go away.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. Yeah. [chuckles] “Mommy doesn’t get drunk, she just has fun.”
KYLE GETZ
[chuckles] The last thing that I will say about him is this quote that I wrote down, that I really liked: “The issue of climate change is quite challenging in agriculture, there’s a lot of people who believe it’s not happening. This is science, this is not me making anything up. It might be the part, I don’t know, about being gay and being a gay farmer or something like that, and the part about coming out was just that realization that I can’t lie anymore, I can’t bullshit anymore. You gotta- I don’t know. That you have to be real, that you have to be honest. And that cements something pretty powerful. The only people who aren’t talking about it is our industry.” So there is something to- He has made this choice for himself in spite of it being difficult already, and then add on the layer of being gay and add it- and make it extra difficult. But he’s like… this is the right thing- the right place for the industry to go, and I want to make meaning in my life and I know that this is the meaning that I’m creating. So, it’s very respectable. I don’t know that I could be willing to sacrifice my personal experiences and pursuit of a relationship for this, and so I’m impressed by him. So, way to go.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. I saw a clip of him talking to a bunch of Argentinian beef buyers-
KYLE GETZ
Mhm.
MIKE JOHNSON
-and there’s this woman that was asking him about his legacy and saying “You don’t have a son or a daughter here?”
KYLE GETZ
Mm. Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
And he’s like “No, I never married”-
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
-was his was his response, and I instantly recognized that as he gave the safest answer that he could.
KYLE GETZ
Absolutely.
MIKE JOHNSON
Like, in that instant, he was panicking about how to say a true thing and not say that he was gay.
KYLE GETZ
And also, like, kind of put the stamp on the conversation. Not like “Nope, I don’t have a son or daughter,” like “……” you know? Like- Just to be like “I never married,” is, like-
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
Kind of answers the-
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
And I think that’s- That’s what that world is like. So, have a really sad thing to say.
KYLE GETZ
[gasps slightly] Okay.
MIKE JOHNSON
Okay. So, I’m gonna talk about a bunch of resources that are available to gay farmers-
KYLE GETZ
Okay.
MIKE JOHNSON
-that have cropped up. But, uh I’m gonna do the sad o-
KYLE GETZ
One of them’s my ass- Oh.
MIKE JOHNSON
I’m gonna do the sad one first.
KYLE GETZ
Okay.
MIKE JOHNSON
So this guy named Keith Ineson, and he is from the UK… Maybe from Northern Ireland?
KYLE GETZ
The UK. [saying it like “yook”]
MIKE JOHNSON
Northern Ireland, yeah. And he read- So, unlike the United States, in the United Kingdom they do track LGBTQ+ farmers and farming, and there was- they released data. It’s the Office for National Statistics, the ONS, said that about 50 Gay farmers a year end to their own lives, that the fear of coming out to loved ones being one of the main reasons, and the pressure is to produce an heir. Who’s gonna take over the farm? So, this Keith Ineson guy, he’s a former chaplain and an out gay farmer in Northern Ireland, set up the Gay Farmer Helpline in 2010. He said, quote, “The push to get married is enormous from a young age. It’s bred in and it’s a very insular occupation.” He said even “Divorce within the farming community is very difficult,” “You need to keep the farm in the family and you need to keep it viable. These men don’t want to hurt the women, but they just feel they shouldn’t have gotten married.” And farming is a difficult business at the best of times. There’s long hours, poor conditions, tight profit margins, but for gay men is deeply excluding. There was a study done in June of 20… 20 – June of 2020 – that said that, in rural zip codes, at least in the United Kingdom, gay dating was one of the most Googled searches.
KYLE GETZ
Wow.
MIKE JOHNSON
And he said, um- He was a working chaplain and he just put his idea for this thing- He put an advertisement in the Farming Press, and said “if they need help they can contact me.” He got his first call that first week, and has averaged at least one new call a week ever since. The difficulties are enormous. He said that one person called the hotline and said that he had attempted to end his life and his dad had saved him. And when his dad got to him on time and it became clear, like, what the reasons were, his dad said that he would have left him to die if he’d known it was because he was gay.
KYLE GETZ
[gasps] Oh my god.
MIKE JOHNSON
These are the kinds of stories that he is trying to help people with on this, this helpline.
KYLE GETZ
Jesus Christ. Fuck that dad!
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah, right? Yeah. You don’t get to decide- You don’t get to have kids only if- and love them only if they meet your criteria. Fuck you.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. He estimates that he’s helped nearly 500 gay farmers-
KYLE GETZ
Wow.
MIKE JOHNSON
-through this hotline.
KYLE GETZ
That’s amazing.
MIKE JOHNSON
And, uh- Oh, one of the things- This one blew me away. Sorry, I’ll get less depressing real soon, I promise. Um, but uh, apparently, one farmer who was closeted had a secret life, a secret gay life, had a private relationship with a male friend who died. How- He couldn’t grieve that.
KYLE GETZ
Mmm… Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
Like- You know, if he was- If he was in love with this man, who’s now gone, who does he turn to, in this environment, to process the fact that this love ended, right? It’s like… Fuckin’ Brokeback Mountain, Kyle, is what it is.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. Yeah, yeah. You just- I mean, to- To have that level of grief and just have to sit on it… in the less fun way. Like, just have to, like, pretend it’s not happening and never show anyone. Man, if that’s not a male stereotype I don’t know what it is.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yep. Well- Ugh, God.
KYLE GETZ
And that’s why men have a higher rate of suicide, is because we’re expected to like shut down these emotions and never show them, and to add that extra layer of like having it be something like being gay and not being able to talk about that part of it too.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yep. For reals. Well, the Gay Farmer Helpline is at gayfarmer.co.uk or at 07837931894, which is way too many numbers for our country [Kyle chuckles] but apparently that number will make sense…
KYLE GETZ
[laughs] To someone.
MIKE JOHNSON
To someone. Some other resources that are out there, I looked at a bunch of matchmaking sites-
KYLE GETZ
Oh!
MIKE JOHNSON
-that are geared towards farmers and it is wild to me. There’s one- a new one. This is a new service for matching single country folk of all orientations, that’s including heterosexual orientations. It’s just- It’s supposed to be for all rural people, but they will let you self-select for “I’m into”- you know, “A man seeking man,” whatever. Anyway, but the name of the serv- [chuckles] The name of the service is “The Farmer Wants a Wife”. [laughs]
KYLE GETZ
What?! Wait. Okay, hold on.
MIKE JOHNSON
It launched in Ireland last year, uh, is already a big success, and they’re talking about expanding across the UK but-
KYLE GETZ
But you gotta change that name, bitch!
MIKE JOHNSON
You gotta change that name, bitch. But yeah, Queerty did an article on them as being like a successful place for the gay farmer to-
KYLE GETZ
That’s so weird that’s worked for gay farmers.
MIKE JOHNSON
-to [laughs] find each other.
KYLE GETZ
Also, [quietly] is Northern Ireland part of the UK?
MIKE JOHNSON
[quietly] Yes, Kyle.
KYLE GETZ
They’re not part of Great Britain though? Is that the thing?
MIKE JOHNSON
Oh, goodness.
KYLE GETZ
We don’t have to do this right now. [both chuckle] Your deep breath said “We’re not doing this now.” Okay.
MIKE JOHNSON
So, uh, yeah, “The Farmer Needs a Wife”- or, “Farmer Wants a Wife” is a service that came recommended by gay farmers.
KYLE GETZ
That’s such a bad name.
MIKE JOHNSON
Well, if you think that’s a bad name-
KYLE GETZ
Wuh-uh!
MIKE JOHNSON
-heeeere’s another one: made by country people for country people, the matchmaking site called muddymatches.co.uk, Muddy Matches.
KYLE GETZ
“Muddy matches”? Like, “We’re- We get in the mud, we’re dirty, we’re not those clean city folk”?
MIKE JOHNSON
Correct.
KYLE GETZ
Okay. I mean, I like that less than the gender- [Kyle chuckles] the other gendered option.
MIKE JOHNSON
Well, you know, that’s-
KYLE GETZ
It doesn’t matter what I think or want. That’s not- It’s not about me.
MIKE JOHNSON
It was founded by two sisters that had a farming background.
KYLE GETZ
Hopefully, they didn’t date.
MIKE JOHNSON
And, uh- Well, you know…
KYLE GETZ
…That’s a rural stereotype I shouldn’t play into.
MIKE JOHNSON
But, um- Yeah. Featured in Countryfile, Horse & Hound, and Farmers Weekly-
KYLE GETZ
[laughs] They got- They got Horse & Hound?! [Mike laughs] What a get.
MIKE JOHNSON
Uh, muddymatches.co.uk is another place. Just- It’s like Farmers Only but, you know-
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
-in the UK. And then, also, there are community organizations that are out there trying to build up identity resources, sharing even some like social stuff or potentially like dating. Um, just the whole thing. One is called weareoutintheopen.org and notourfarm.org. Notourfarm.org, reading through their stuff today, I was fascinated by this idea. They were questioning- Not questioning. They have a lot of resources that are for farm workers, and the article was talking about why aren’t they called farmers? Like, most farmers don’t actually do the farming, they’re more like farm managers.
KYLE GETZ
Oh.
MIKE JOHNSON
Farms are about ownership, and that’s bullshit and we hate that.
KYLE GETZ
Huh. Yeah, that makes sense.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. So, like, if I- Like- I’ve never considered myself a farmer, but I’ve done a lot of farm work.
KYLE GETZ
Right.
MIKE JOHNSON
Maybe I have been a farmer-
KYLE GETZ
Huh!
MIKE JOHNSON
-like, if I just use the less bullshit definition.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. Yeah, I would think the person doing the stuff on the farm would be the farmer. But-
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
Another fun thing you can check out is @thegayfarmers, that was created by Lutz of Germany. It’s got some good German representation. Um, It’s- It’s on Instagram. They haven’t posted in like a year but, before that, it was a really cool concept where Lutz, of Germany, created this account so that people could like send in pictures of themselves, and they would, like, you know, post and feature different people to show that like there are lots of gay farmers. Instagram @thegayfarmers, if you want.
MIKE JOHNSON
That’s beautiful.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. Yeah! That’s- They’re- I think that’s the- Like, it makes sense that we found the loneliness part of it, that does seem to be a really important and heavy part of this topic. And, I think, the positive side is all the work that people have then done both in terms of helping other LGBT folks and helping sustainability of farming.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yep.
KYLE GETZ
That seems to be the kind of positive side of this.
MIKE JOHNSON
I also think… it’s gotta be getting better. And if only- Well, we know it is. Like, people- Listeners have written into say, like, “I live in the middle of goddamn nowhere, there are no gay people here, but I feel connected to the gay community for an hour and a half each week,” or whatever. And that’s- We didn’t have podcasts when I was growing up, Kyle. [Kyle chuckles] You know what I mean?
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
Like, there- There really just weren’t ways to reach out and connect that weren’t going to a city and going to a gay bar.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah, yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
Right? So I would hope over time that we would turn the corner and rural queer people – farmers included – would not suffer from such isolation and depression as a result.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.
MIKE JOHNSON
Do you have more?
KYLE GETZ
Well I have something that I could save for Patreon. You were- Did you have a lesbian thing that you wanted to share more?
MIKE JOHNSON
Oh. Sure, yeah, I’ll talk about a lesbian thing. [Kyle chuckles] Um, nervous.
KYLE GETZ
Oh, why?
MIKE JOHNSON
Nervous talking about lesbian stuff.
KYLE GETZ
Oh, why?
MIKE JOHNSON
Not a lesbian.
KYLE GETZ
I mean, we- Mike, we’re talking about farmers. We’re not farmers, so- [chuckles]
MIKE JOHNSON
Oh, okay. That’s-
KYLE GETZ
We do it- We do this a bunch.
MIKE JOHNSON
Thaaat’s true. Okay, so, first of all, I’m gonna talk about Rush Limbaugh.
KYLE GETZ
[laughs] Okay. Noted lesbian.
MIKE JOHNSON
Noted lesbian Rush Limbaugh. Noted dead lesbian.
KYLE GETZ
Uh-huh.
MIKE JOHNSON
So, Rush Limbaugh said that Obama was sending lesbian farmers [Kyle chuckles] to invade red states to make them gay and less conservative.
KYLE GETZ
Sure.
MIKE JOHNSON
So he went- It was back in-
KYLE GETZ
Can you imagine an army of lesbian farmers?
MIKE JOHNSON
I mean-
KYLE GETZ
Boy, that’d be- I’d be scared of that.
MIKE JOHNSON
They would get shit done.
KYLE GETZ
They- They would. [chuckles]
MIKE JOHNSON
So, this was back in 2016 during the Obama administration. What happened was, the USDA and some other agencies had an event called the Iowa LGBT Rural Summit and the purpose of that was to, quote, “share information relating to policies, programs, and services that exist to protect, promote and strengthen LGBT rural communities.” They talked about a whole bunch of stuff. It was in Des Moines. They talked about rural housing loans, community facility grants, they talked about bullying, um, and-
KYLE GETZ
Cool.
MIKE JOHNSON
So then Rush Limbaugh… somehow turned that into “The Obama administration is trying to recruit lesbian farmers to militarize them, to have them invade red parts of the country, to liberalize the culture.”
KYLE GETZ
Look, I understand you read the headline of something and you got it misconstrued, but they- Like, they invent- They take these things and then turn them into- Like, you had- At least, especially back then, you had “Obama” plus, you know, whatever the headline is plus “is turning everyone gay.” Like- Like, they’re not- Yeah. It’s so fucking annoying.
MIKE JOHNSON
So this is all a quote from him…
KYLE GETZ
[chuckles] Oh no.
MIKE JOHNSON
…”Rural America happens to be largely conservative. Rural America is made up of self-reliant, rugged individualist types. They happen to be big believers in the Second Amendment. So here comes the Obama regime with a bunch of federal money, and they’re waving it around, and all you gotta do to get it is be a lesbian and want to be a farmer, and they’ll set you up. I’m like you; I never before in my life knew that lesbians wanted to be farmers.”
KYLE GETZ
Oh.
MIKE JOHNSON
I was embarrassed, at that moment, to realize that I thought like Rush Limbaugh.
KYLE GETZ
[chuckles] You didn’t know lesbians wanted to be-
MIKE JOHNSON
I didn’t know lesbians wanted to be farmers! [laughs]
KYLE GETZ
But- Okay, it’s fine to not know that, and then what do you do with that information? And you did not rant against-
MIKE JOHNSON
I read about a bunch of them and realize that they do want to be farmers.
KYLE GETZ
There you go, right!? That’s all you gotta do!
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
That’s all you gotta do! [Mike chuckles] I think everyone, like, fears that they don’t know information, or fears that they, like, they’ll learn a new identity or learn that they’re out of the loop on a thing, and that’s okay! It’s okay not to know that! It’s okay to learn that. It’s okay to feel a little dumb when you learn a new thing. It’s what do you do once you know that.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
And do you blame Obama for trying to militarize red states with them, or do you read up on them and go “Huh! Now I know! That’s cool!” [Mike chuckles] Like, it’s just- Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
…Okay.
KYLE GETZ
Okay. [chuckles]
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. And also it’s okay, lesbians, to want to be a farmer. I support you.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
So, it’s not the first time that lesbians and farming have been like a thing that was being discussed.
KYLE GETZ
Huh.
MIKE JOHNSON
In the 1970s-
KYLE GETZ
[chuckles] What?
MIKE JOHNSON
-um, there was a organic food movement that a bunch of radical feminists got involved with, and so they created the idea of Womyn’s Land. W-O-M-Y-N-‘-S Land, Womyn’s Land. So, it started urban but then it started to shave off and go more rural. Like, communes were being started.
KYLE GETZ
Hm!
MIKE JOHNSON
There was one in Arkansas called Yellowhammer. There was one in Oregon called WomanShare. And they were trying to create these feminist farms, and the lesbians were all over that.
KYLE GETZ
That’s not what FF means.
MIKE JOHNSON
That’s not what FF means.
KYLE GETZ
Mm-mm. Just if anyone was wondering.
MIKE JOHNSON
One thing that I thought was really interesting about the whole thing was, um, this article. Anyway, it’s modernfarmer.com, in an article from 2015. Political lesbianism- So, there was a activist and theorist, Ti-Grace Atkinson, and she argued that sexual orientation is a choice, that heterosexuality is anti-feminist-
KYLE GETZ
Hm.
MIKE JOHNSON
-so go be a lesbian even if you don’t want to and start a commune with no men in it.
KYLE GETZ
Well, okay. [chuckles] I have some qualms.
MIKE JOHNSON
But, apparently, the actual lesbians, who loved and were sexually attracted to other women, they didn’t always see eye to eye on this.
KYLE GETZ
[chuckles] Yeah, I would think not.
MIKE JOHNSON
Largely, those farms and communes have disappeared. There are a couple of them that are still around in a few different places across the country, but feminism and feminist theory has changed since then. The acceptance of queer people has changed since then. Urbanization has also shifted the demographics since then and, just, these farms seem to have dried up, but [Kyle chuckles] it was just- What? [Kyle laughs] Menopause, I guess. Is that- [laughs]
KYLE GETZ
I don’t know that you- That’s- The phrasing of that was just interesting.
MIKE JOHNSON
Um, but yeah. Yeah, a lot of lesbians were active in this, like, women’s farming movement of the late 60s and early 70s. And, so, they’ve been at it for- They’ve been at it for a while.
KYLE GETZ
Hm. I didn’t mention, most of the- Um, I didn’t mention, most of the people of the 20 people interviewed for the thesis were white, but I didn’t mention they were mostly cis women.
MIKE JOHNSON
Mm. Mm-hm.
KYLE GETZ
So, like, there are- You know, at least this was in the northeast US where they – you know – they noticed a lot of them forming these community-based farming things. So there is at least some of that still going on.
MIKE JOHNSON
Mm.
KYLE GETZ
You know, this is a very limited area and scope but, like, there’s at least some of that still happening.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
Which is cool.
MIKE JOHNSON
Did we do it?
KYLE GETZ
[sighs] Uh, yeah. I mean, I didn’t expect farming to be so heavy.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah, we talked about a lot of farming and we talked about a lot of sad shit.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah, like, I-
MIKE JOHNSON
I guess I could talk about, like- Like, I grew up there. I think that I, for sure, sought out, confirmation bias-style, the things that I remember it feeling like to grow up in a place like that.
KYLE GETZ
Mm.
MIKE JOHNSON
Like, I didn’t- I didn’t seek out the happy gay farms, if- like, if there is such a thing, because I just- my background. I blame growing up where I grew up on the fact that I didn’t come out until I was 30, and that life was pretty fuckin’ terrible from that… angle.
KYLE GETZ
And… tell people about, like, did you grow up on a farm? Like, what was-
MIKE JOHNSON
We had cows. It was a- It was only 5 acres, it was a small farm. “Farm” is even a rough word but, like, I would get up before school and go feed cows and helped my dad change sprinklers because we had to keep the alfalfa watered, and we largely ate the cows that we grew. So that was a fun exercise of, like, cutting into a steak and talking about which cow it is that we’re eating, that we helped raise. Um-
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. And what about that made it difficult to come out until you were in your 30s?
MIKE JOHNSON
It’s- It’s not- It’s not specifically that I was on a farm, it’s just that it was a red part of the world, right? It’s rural eastern Washington, Yakima County, middle of goddamn fuckin’ nowhere, 2000 people in the whole town, and it is very oppressive in the judgments and structures to keep in place anybody who dares deviate from the mainstream. And that extends to race, that extends to class, that- It’s just-
KYLE GETZ
Even talking about what we learned about, like talking about sustainability and the effects on the environment, like, that is frowned upon even talking about that.
MIKE JOHNSON
Right. Yeah, it’s a liberal conspiracy, Kyle.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. Yep. Yep.
MIKE JOHNSON
Threatening our way of life.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
…Or whatever.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
But yeah, just growing up in that environment, that political environment, that cultural environment, I think- I really identify with and empathize with these men that are having these, like, isolated experiences, because I was- I was there and, like them, thought I was gonna get married to a woman, and have kids, and live a white picket fence life with- You know. That’s what I was supposed to do. It was the only life that I could envision for myself.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
And that’s very much a function of where I grew up.
KYLE GETZ
The irony is, like, that’s where the grooming is happening.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. Right? Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
To make people believe that’s their only option and you can’t deviate from anything. Like, that is the enforcement of your own beliefs on your children, that, like, not letting them be their authentic selves. Um, it’s interesting because, I think, farming is a straight stereotype. And I think part of that is, you know, like, we’re talking about there are a lot of gay people out there, there are a lot of queer people that are involved in farming. So it’s not true, but then there is some truth in the, like, the movement to big cities and the escape from rural areas, this kind of environment. So, I think there’s also some truth to, you know, that that gay people want to move out of rural areas to be more accepted and be able to find more people. So it’s an interesting mix of, like, this stereotype is true and not true and-
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
-you know. Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
Absolutely.
KYLE GETZ
It’s a weird- It’s a weird mix.
MIKE JOHNSON
Something else to consider too. I just- I don’t know if I count as a farmer or not by the, like, having done farm work. I like defining that as being a farmer-
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
-so I guess I have- I was a farmer in a past life. That makes three gay men in my life, if I include myself, that had been involved in farming.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
Right? Like-
KYLE GETZ
A surprising number of people in our friend group that have done farming, [chuckles] which is weird.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. Maybe it’s not weird. Maybe- Maybe that’s true.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
You know?
KYLE GETZ
Yeah, yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
Like, more representative of gay culture and gay people than we think it is.
KYLE GETZ
It’s just not, like, discussed that mu- Like, I don’t hear people talking about – in gay circles – about farming or rural upbringings as much.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
You know what I think gay people also do a little bit more?
MIKE JOHNSON
What?
KYLE GETZ
Is play farming apps on their phones-
MIKE JOHNSON
Oh. Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
-and that’s what I’m gonna talking to you about on Patreon.
MIKE JOHNSON
Great. Farmville!
KYLE GETZ
Uh-huh.
MIKE JOHNSON
Okay. So, should we take a break?
KYLE GETZ
Yeah, let’s take a break!
MIKE JOHNSON
Let’s take a break!
KYLE GETZ
Farm break. [Mike chuckles] Mmmmm. [like a cow]
MIKE JOHNSON
Get in that Kennel. [saying “Kennel” with a southern accent] [chuckles]
KYLE GETZ
That what?
MIKE JOHNSON
I don’t know.
KYLE GETZ
“Kannel”?
MIKE JOHNSON
[with a southern accent] Kennel.
KYLE GETZ
…Kennel! Got it.
[Break music plays, sung by MIKE JOHNSON]
This is the part where Mike and Kyle take a break!
MIKE JOHNSON
Nice taters, Kyle.
KYLE GETZ
…[chuckles] What?
MIKE JOHNSON
Are we back?
KYLE GETZ
[chuckles] No. [Mike laughs] I’m gonna quit the show, after that. We’re back!
MIKE JOHNSON
We’re back!
KYLE GETZ
We’re gonna do our Gayest & Straightest.
MIKE JOHNSON
We’re gonna do our Gayest & Straightest, but first…
KYLE GETZ
“Nice taters”?
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
Local gay bar review!
KYLE GETZ
Ooo!
MIKE JOHNSON
This week we’re gonna do Chill Bar, which is in Palm Springs, California. I’ve been to Chill Bar several times, and I’ve been to Chill Bar twice in the last six months, and so I don’t remember which visit is which visit but I went with some gay fraternity brothers and went with a friend from San Diego.
KYLE GETZ
Well, with multiple experiences, this time you can not just rate your individual experience but the bar overall.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah, that’s true. It’s a big bar. It’s like a sit down place. There’s a lot of standing though because it’s quite popular. It’s got like a- It is a chill vibe to it.
KYLE GETZ
Hey, you did it.
MIKE JOHNSON
Which, you know, adequately named. But then there’s like a back area that’s a dance floor that is, like, really dark and I definitely got groped once-
KYLE GETZ
Eugh.
MIKE JOHNSON
-which, you know, whatever.
KYLE GETZ
Gay bars.
MIKE JOHNSON
And then, there were go-go boys there but, like, different kinds of go-go boys. And I think- I don’t know that I’ve seen other places a silver daddy go-go boy.
KYLE GETZ
Oohh!
MIKE JOHNSON
Like a full like daddy bear go-go boy.
KYLE GETZ
Nice.
MIKE JOHNSON
And, at least one of the times that I went, the go-go boys were all wearing sports uniforms.
KYLE GETZ
Hot.
MIKE JOHNSON
It was like sport night or whatever. And uh, yeah, there was like a lacrosse player and, I think, the- I think the silver daddy bear was wearing a baseball outfit.
KYLE GETZ
I need to go to a sport night. That sounds sexy.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah, it really was. It really was. Uh, I enjoy Chill Bar. I think it is indeed chill and, uh, I had- I had- I had- I had sex at least once after it, but not enough to raise it to 5 dildos. I’m gonna give it- I’m gonna give it 4 dildos.
KYLE GETZ
What does a place have to do, Mike?! This is literally everything you describe that you like in a place. It had go-go boys, a diverse crowd, you got laid once… What does it need? What’s missing?
MIKE JOHNSON
…4 1/2 dildos. [laughs]
KYLE GETZ
[chuckles] A perfect score does not exist in Mike’s world.
MIKE JOHNSON
It does!
KYLE GETZ
It absolutely- There is no way you will ever give a place a 5. I guarantee it.
MIKE JOHNSON
Great, now I have to.
KYLE GETZ
[chuckles] I know.
MIKE JOHNSON
You dick. [laughs]
KYLE GETZ
You dildo.
MIKE JOHNSON
Hey, everybody!
KYLE GETZ
Hey!
MIKE JOHNSON
Tickets for our New York show are on sale right now, please go and buy it if you want to see us on Sunday, June the 4th. We’re gonna be at The Spot, in Hell’s Kitchen on the island of Manhattan in the great city of New York in the state of New York, United States of America, planet Earth.
KYLE GETZ
Oh, please stop this. [Mike laughs] Okay, you can go to gayishpodcast.com/live to find all of our tour dates and get tickets for New York. Those are the ones that are available right now. The presale is happening until May 1st.
MIKE JOHNSON
Correct.
KYLE GETZ
So you can get discounted tickets until May 1st.
MIKE JOHNSON
And tickets are selling, so don’t wait.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
When- When it’s full, we have to stop, so-
KYLE GETZ
Yeah, when you- When you sell all the tickets, then you can’t sell anymore.
MIKE JOHNSON
That’s right. That’s right. Also, happy and pleased to announce that our show in July, in Chicago, is going to be at Sidetrack. Very excited about that. That’s like my favorite Chicago bar. And, uh, we’ll be in Los Angeles in September, at Akbar, which is another awesome place. I will announce more venues as we get closer.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah, but you can see all the dates at gayishpodcast.com/live.
MIKE JOHNSON
You ready to do our Gayest & Straightest- No.
KYLE GETZ
No.
MIKE JOHNSON
Because our website is gayishpodcast.com, without the “/live”.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. [chuckles]
MIKE JOHNSON
You can add the “/live” if you want to.
KYLE GETZ
If you want. Um, you can go to our Discord, our Spaces, our Facebook group. Find all those at gayishpodcast.com/contact.
MIKE JOHNSON
Our hotline, you can send us text messages or leave us voicemails, is 5855-Gayish. That’s 585-542-9474. Standard rates apply.
KYLE GETZ
Our email is gayishpodcast@gmail.com.
MIKE JOHNSON
And our physical mailing address Post Office Box 19882 Seattle, Washington 98109.
KYLE GETZ
And we have a new merch on the merch store so, if you want a news theme song shirt, there are a couple of different options including one with a gag ball in someone’s mouth for “shut your mouth hole”, um, and a “Hey Mike… Hey Kyle…” mug in the shape of the Progress flag, so check those out. Gayishpodcast.com/merch.
MIKE JOHNSON
Do it.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. Uh, Gayest & Straightest?
MIKE JOHNSON
Let’s do our Gayest & Straightest. I’m happy to go first.
KYLE GETZ
Okay.
MIKE JOHNSON
The gayest thing about me this week was, uh, the Friday before Easter, I went and visited my dad and, uh, he asked me if you and I were dating.
KYLE GETZ
Aw. Wow! After all this time?
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. [laughs]
KYLE GETZ
I would think- What did you say?
MIKE JOHNSON
Uh, I said “No.”
KYLE GETZ
Oh. Don’t need to say it with that face. [Mike laughs] I’m delightful.
MIKE JOHNSON
You know. It felt very gay to talk to my dad about gay things.
KYLE GETZ
Mm.
MIKE JOHNSON
I think he was just trying to let me know that he was okay with, like, talking about stuff and-
KYLE GETZ
Oh, that’s sweet.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. And then, the straightest thing about me this week was, the same evening, my dad and I changed the headlight in my Jeep. So we took his toolbox out there and-
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
-did dad-son car repair bonding shit, you know?
KYLE GETZ
God, whenever that my dad would try to teach me shit about cars I’d get so angry at him.
MIKE JOHNSON
Oh. [laughs]
KYLE GETZ
I would get so annoyed. I’d be like “Dad, I’m never gonna remember this! This is horrible.”
MIKE JOHNSON
And you don’t even own a car now! Fuck you, dad!
KYLE GETZ
That’s true. Yeah, I won! [Mike laughs] Um-
MIKE JOHNSON
How ‘bout you?
KYLE GETZ
My gayest is I worked my first shift at the Trevor Project where I actually took phone calls.
MIKE JOHNSON
How did it go? A lot of hangups.
MIKE JOHNSON
Really?
KYLE GETZ
Yeah, some people call in and they, like, get anxious or they just want to test out to see what the service is like, so there are lots of different reasons that someone may hang up. But, had some people hang up, had some people kind of talk about world events and, you know, had just a variety of kind of different calls.
MIKE JOHNSON
I can understand a person, like, panic hanging up like as soon as there’s another person on the line, but did people hang up like well into the call?
KYLE GETZ
Sometimes, yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
Really? Wow.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. And that could be- Like, that could be some walked in the room and they don’t want to get found out, or something is overwhelming. Like, there’s a lot of reasons that could happen. And it’s- If anyone has considered calling in, like, people that are answering the phones are people like me that just care and want to talk so, if you’re in a crisis, please do it and use those services. Um, my straightest is now [chuckles] I had went to the Kraken game and, boy, it my straightest. [chuckles]
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. [laughs]
KYLE GETZ
There’s just, like- There’s just-
MIKE JOHNSON
Are there any hot hockey boys?
KYLE GETZ
Um, it’s- You can’t really see ‘em, because they’re all like behind their stuff.
MIKE JOHNSON
Ah.
KYLE GETZ
I mean, yes, there’re, like, you know, these like preview videos and all these videos that happen on these big screens and, absolutely, some super-duper hot like Kraken boys.
MIKE JOHNSON
Kraken… that whip. [chuckles]
KYLE GETZ
I’d let them Krak my… en. Kraken my… We- Our mascot is also a dumb troll that I fucking hate. It’s, like, the stupidest decision ever. Anyway, but that’s for sure my straightest thing of life.
MIKE JOHNSON
Great. Uh, listener’s Gayest & Straightest.
KYLE GETZ
Ooo!
MIKE JOHNSON
We got to voicemail.
DONNA SUGGARZ [voicemail]
Hi, Mike and Kyle, it’s Donna Suggarz.
KYLE GETZ
Hi.
DONNA SUGGARZ [voicemail]
Loving the show. I’m officially caught up! I’m so happy. And hi, Derek. [in a sultry voice] So nice to meet you. Mm.
MIKE JOHNSON
[laughs]
DONNA SUGGARZ [voicemail]
I just wanted to give you my Gayest & Straightest. I finished my bathroom, which is kind of both. So, my straightest would be working with tools, and caulking, and spackling, and sanding, and whatnot, and I think the gayest is when I was reattaching the handle for my douche nozzle on the wall, for convenience-
KYLE GETZ
[laughs]
DONNA SUGGARZ [voicemail]
-and realized… I can leave this here, because it’s my house. So, that was my Gayest & Straightest. I love you guys, I love the show, I’m so happy to be caught up! And, Mike, I do kinda want to fuck your younger brother. Sorry.
MIKE JOHNSON
[laughs]
DONNA SUGGARZ [voicemail]
Bye, Derek! Have a good day!
MIKE JOHNSON
Donna Suggarz.
KYLE GETZ
Wooow!
MIKE JOHNSON
That was a journey.
KYLE GETZ
Thanks, Donna Suggarz. I felt… excited for you, I felt masc, I felt… a little bit left out of the hitting on. [Mike laughs] So, yeah, there’s a big journey there for all of us. Um, if you want to leave us your Gayest & Straightest, you have a far better likelihood of getting on the show if you actually leave a voicemail, because we like those. So, leave a message with your Gayest & Straightest.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeaaah, do it.
KYLE GETZ
Uh, I think that’s it, right?
MIKE JOHNSON
That’s it! We did it!
KYLE GETZ
We did it!
MIKE JOHNSON
Un, I would like to say thank you to all of the lesbian farmer army members-
KYLE GETZ
Yeah, and they-
MIKE JOHNSON
-for killing Rush Limbaugh.
KYLE GETZ
[chuckles] Yes, that was the biggest contribution. And corn. Um, and thank you to all the gay farmers. Thank you to our Gap Bridgers for voting on this topic. I think this ended up being a heavier one than I thought was going to, but I’m glad we talked about it. Um, thank you to our Super Gap Bridgers: Andrew Bugbee, Christopher M, John Crawley, Stephen Portch, Joh Stoessel, Harry Shaw, Josh Copeland, Jonathan Montañez, Waddu…
MIKE JOHNSON
Hello.
KYLE GETZ
Hello, welcome. …Forrest Nail, Patrick Martin, James Barrow, Steve Douglas, Explosive Lasagna, Michael Cubbington, Just Jamie, Kevin Henderson, Tomas B, Timothy Saura, DustySands, AE Coleman, Chris Khachatourians, and Jerome York.
MIKE JOHNSON
Thanks, everybody.
KYLE GETZ
Thank you.
MIKE JOHNSON
That’s it. This has been Gayish. From the Chris Khachatourians studios, I’m Mike Johnson.
KYLE GETZ
I’m Kyle Getz. Until next week, be butch, be fabulous, be you. See you next week.
MIKE JOHNSON
Byee.
KYLE GETZ
Farm.
MIKE JOHNSON
Farm?
[Outro music plays, instrumental]
MIKE JOHNSON
The United Kingdom… includes Northern Ireland. That’s what all the fighting was about.
KYLE GETZ
Okay.
MIKE JOHNSON
Okay. Yeah. Protestants and Catholics.
KYLE GETZ
There’s something that’s not included in the United Kingdom.
MIKE JOHNSON
The rest of Ireland.
KYLE GETZ
The rest of Ireland. Okay.
MIKE JOHNSON
It’s its own country.
KYLE GETZ
The rest of Ireland is not part of- but Northern Ireland is.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
Great.
MIKE JOHNSON
Which then was a problem because, when Brexit happened, now there’s like a border between them that, what do you do with it? Anyway, blah, blah, blah.
[Transcriptionist: C Dixon, CMDixonWork@gmail.com]