Gayish | Award-Winning Gay Podcast about Stereotypes
Weekly gay podcast discussing one gay stereotype each episode. Independent & LGBT.
Why are werewolves so gay? Is the because they’re throbbing, shirtless, hairy men fighting for dominance? Well, yeah.
In this episode: News- 2:22 || Main Topic (Werewolves)- 14:25 || Gayest & Straightest- 1:03:51
On the Patreon bonus segment, Mike gives Kyle the werewolf name quiz. If you want to support our show while getting ad-free episodes a day early, go to www.patreon.com/gayishpodcast.
Mike and Kyle get into leather. Literally. Guest Woodja Flanigan joins us during our Houston live show to help explain the intricacies of the leather community.
In this episode: News- 9:00 || Main Topic (Leather)- 15:12 || Gayest & Straightest- 1:13:02
On the Patreon bonus segment, Kyle shares with Mike info about San Francisco’s Leather & LGBTQ Cultural District. If you want to support our show while getting ad-free episodes a day early, go to www.patreon.com/gayishpodcast.
Do Jeeps give masc4masc energy, or are they a gay stereotype? Mike shares with Kyle why his Jeep Wrangler is the love of his life.
In this episode: News- 1:46 || Main Topic (Jeeps)- 12:54 || Gayest & Straightest- 58:25
Come see us live in Houston! Visit www.gayishpodcast.com/live for tour dates, details and tickets. We can’t wait to see you!
Want to support the show and what we create? Join our Patreon for as little as $2/mo and get ad-free episodes a day early. Visit www.patreon.com/gayishpodcast for all the details.
FULL EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
INTRO MUSIC [MIKE JOHNSON SINGING]
When you know that you are queer but your favorite drink is beer, that’s Gayish. You can bottom without stopping but you can’t stand going shopping, that’s Gayish. Oh, Gayish. You’re probably Gayish. Oh life’s just too short for narrow stereotypes. Oh, it’s Gayish. We’re all so Gayish. It’s Gayish with Mike and Kyle.
MIKE JOHNSON
Hello, everyone in the podcast universe. This is Gayish.
KYLE GETZ
The podcast that has never cast even a single pod.
MIKE JOHNSON
[chuckles] We haven’t? We- I thought-
KYLE GETZ
I don’t think so.
MIKE JOHNSON
What are we doing?
KYLE GETZ
Are these pods that we’re casting? Have we been casting pods this whole time?
MIKE JOHNSON
I mean, it’s a metaphorical digital casting.
KYLE GETZ
Mmm…
MIKE JOHNSON
Uh, I don’t know. I’m Mike Johnson.
KYLE GETZ
I’m Kyle Getz.
MIKE JOHNSON
And we’re here to bridge the gap between sexuality and actuality. And, today… meep, meep.
KYLE GETZ
[chuckles] Is that what your Jeep sounds like?!
MIKE JOHNSON
That’s the Road Runner. [both chuckle]
KYLE GETZ
Today, Mike’s gonna try to hit the Road Runner in his Jeep. Uh, we’re talking about Jeeps!
MIKE JOHNSON
We’re gonna talk about Jeeps. You know you love ‘em, so do I.
KYLE GETZ
[chuckles] I don’t know.
MIKE JOHNSON
Here we go.
KYLE GETZ
Here we go.
MIKE JOHNSON
“Masc for masc” energy, [chuckles] right out of the gate.
KYLE GETZ
Or is it? Find out today.
MIKE JOHNSON
[gasps] Stay tuned. Um, but first… If you tried to buy tickets for the Houston live show and it told you that it was in the past or something, if it wouldn’t let you buy tickets, just please try again, because I fucked a thing up. It’s better now.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah, you should be able to buy tickets for the show right now and right up until the event start date. So give it a shot, if it messed up for you.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah, yeah. You can DM me and be like “Hey, you dumb fucker.” [Kyle chuckles] Um… and now the news?
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
[News segment intro plays, sung by MIKE JOHNSON]
Shut your mouth hole it’s time for your ear holes, news, news, news.
MIKE JOHNSON
Okay, news the first. So… Hey, Kyle.
KYLE GETZ
Hey, Mike.
MIKE JOHNSON
Do you know who Martina Navratilova is?
KYLE GETZ
She’s that tennis player.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. She’s also a known lesbian.
KYLE GETZ
“Known lesbian.” [chuckles]
MIKE JOHNSON
And she’s also, apparently, kind of a TERF, [Kyle gasps] which I did not know and I’m very sad to learn that because… I don’t know. Just- It’s never- I’m always surprised when there’re evil lesbians, you know?
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. I mean, it’s a reminder that any one of us can be shitty.
MIKE JOHNSON
Well, that’s true.
KYLE GETZ
Like, we’re not immune to… I don’t know. But it’s, like, “LGBT”. The T’s right in the fucking name. Like- I don’t know.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. Well, anyway, lesbian tennis legend Martina Navratilova, on Monday, blasted actor Daniel Radcliffe, [chuckles] of Harry Potter fame, for his public support of transgender women on X.
KYLE GETZ
I wanna blast him!
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. Blast me, Harry Potter. [both laugh] I love that- I love that everywhere seems to always say “X, formerly known as ‘Twitter’.”
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
Like, let’s keep deadnaming Twitter as long as we can keep it funny.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. [chuckles]
MIKE JOHNSON
So, Harry Potter wrote an essay for the Trevor Project. Uh, he wrote, quote, “Transgender women are women. Any statement to the contrary erases the identity and dignity of transgender people,” to which Martina Navratilova replied – she retweeted – “Just be quiet Daniel. Be quiet.”
KYLE GETZ
I mean… no, right? [chuckles] Like, no, right?
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So then a user, @Rab420, said “Seems he’s defending trans women. Why be quiet?” and she responded, quote, “Because females need their sex based spaces, that means no biological males, however they might identify. That includes sports and the locker rooms. Thank you.” Again with the penises, Kyle.
KYLE GETZ
Again with penises.
MIKE JOHNSON
Just- I-
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
Good lord. And this phrase. Like, it’s hard to talk about these things, like, even if you’re on the right side of history. Like, biological sex is a thing, and it’s a thing that especially, like, doctors have to know about. And, if you use the phrase “biological sex”, or “biological male”, or “biological female” it’s a dog whistle and you’re probably a dickbag fuckface asshole.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. And it’s a phrase that makes you sound like you’re smart because it has a word that contains “ology” in it, but you actually are basing it on your 3rd grade science knowledge instead of actual- Biological sex is way more complex than just male/female.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yep. Aaabsolutely. And, apparently, she is part of a group of dickbag fuckface assholes called the WSPWG, the Women’s Sports Policy Working Group, and they’re trying to, quote, “preserve girls’ and women’s competitive sports for ‘biological females’.”
KYLE GETZ
Eughh. Eh.
MIKE JOHNSON
And- And apparently she, like, gives a lot of money to them, and is on their board, and is just, like, apparently she’s a terrible person and that’s really upsetting. Also, she fought Megan Rapinoe over basically the same thing. She voiced her support for trans female athletes and said that she would have no problem competing against a trans woman on the US Women’s National Team. And, uh, Martina Navratilova was a bitch about that. So she’s a bitch. She’s a bitch and I hate her, Kyle. No. No, she’s- She’s- She’s fine. No, she’s not fine. I don’t know. You’re not supposed to call women “bitches” but sometimes they deserve it, [Kyle chuckles] and I call you “bitch” all the time.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah, but that- I feel warm and loving when you call me a bitch.
MIKE JOHNSON
[laughs] Aww. I’ll call you a bitch more, if that-
KYLE GETZ
Aww!
MIKE JOHNSON
-if that solidifies our friendship.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. Finally. We’ve needed it for this long, Mike.
MIKE JOHNSON
[chuckles] Um, yeah. Sorry, everybody. Cross that lesbian off your list.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
And then, of course, Daniel Radcliffe is particularly open about his support for trans women because his former boss, so to speak, that wrote those books, is, like, the head TERFiest TERF of all TERFs. So…
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. Yeah. Which is great. It’s great to have people on the cast of Harry Potter speaking out against her.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah, ‘cause there’s a real fear of guilt by association, right? Like-
KYLE GETZ
Oh, for sure!
MIKE JOHNSON
Just because you were in Harry Potter doesn’t mean that you agree with that bitch. See? Another person. At least I stopped saying the C word, Kyle. Okay… [Kyle chuckles] uh, news the second?
KYLE GETZ
Great.
MIKE JOHNSON
Okay. So, first of all, do you know who Rishi Sunak is?
KYLE GETZ
That guy that’s running for something for the UK.
MIKE JOHNSON
Well, he is currently the prime minister…
KYLE GETZ
That’s what I meant.
MIKE JOHNSON
…of the UK, and he needs to be on the list for the Dickbag Fuckface Asshole Awards.
KYLE GETZ
Oohhh.
MIKE JOHNSON
Like, we need to- Okay, Derek, you have a homework assignment, which is: in time for January 1st, we should, like, keep track of anybody that we say is a dickbag fuckface asshole nominee, because I legit want to actually do it. And, like, we need to- We need to make up an award of some kind. Like, I would love to have a listener contest where everybody, like, submits their designs for what the trophy should be and then we should make those trophies and send them to the winners. [Kyle chuckles] And- Okay, back to this dickbag fuckface asshole. Uh, rece-
KYLE GETZ
No, I love this. We’re gonna go all-in on this Dickbag Fuckface Asshole Awards.
MIKE JOHNSON
[chuckles] Yes.
KYLE GETZ
I didn’t know we- Mailing it to their- It’s gotta be like a turd emoji or something, you know? [Mike chuckles] Like, it’s gotta be like a thumbs down or, you know, somethin’ that’s like a middle finger.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah, yeah. Okay. Okay. Maybe it could be- Maybe it could be, like, three symbols: one is like a bag of penises; and one can be, like, somebody getting, you know, throat fucked; and then one can be a butthole. It’s dickbag, fuckface, assholes.
KYLE GETZ
Oh. I love that!
MIKE JOHNSON
Okay, great. [both chuckle]
KYLE GETZ
This is gonna be- And we’re voting on it. You know when everyone has their end-of-year lists? This will be like our end-of-year kinda list.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yes. Yes, yes, yes. Okay, back to this dickbag fuckface asshole.
KYLE GETZ
Okay, great.
MIKE JOHNSON
Uh, he was interviewed at the conference of the meeting of the European Political Community on Thursday, in Grenada, Spain and he was asked by a reporter, quote, “Do you in any way regret saying ‘a man is a man’ and a ‘woman is a woman’?” and he responded, “No, I think a man is a man and a woman is a woman, I think most people watching this program will think that that’s common sense and that’s just a fact of biology.” [sighs] Okay.
KYLE GETZ
There’s that word again.
MIKE JOHNSON
There’s that word again. All you have to do is say “ology” and you sound smart.
KYLE GETZ
Mm-hm.
MIKE JOHNSON
Okay, so, this is- This lets us then talk about something else. Conservative- The Conservative Party is trying to pass a ban keeping trans women out of female-only hospitals in the UK.
KYLE GETZ
Eugh.
MIKE JOHNSON
That- Yeah. Steve Barclay, who’s the health secretary and would be a candidate for dickbag fuckface asshole if he mattered, [Kyle chuckles] um, but uh, he said, quote, “trans women have no place in women’s wards”, like the ward of the hospital. And, so then I thought this is fucking great: then there was a report published by TransLucent and they looked at 102 freedom of information requests to the National Health Service and they discovered that, since 2021, the number of complaints about trans women being in women wards of the hospital was exactly zero. [Kyle chuckles] There were no complaints, none, zilch. They are solving a problem that does not exist…
KYLE GETZ
Yeah
MIKE JOHNSON
…because being an anti-trans, bigoted, fuckface asshole dickbag gets you points to other dickbag fuckface assholes.
KYLE GETZ
It’s so frustrating, the creation of problems that don’t exist. The same thing happened with the bathroom bills. That was like… This is not a problem. No one- No trans woman is sneaking into women’s restrooms and being a predator. Like, it’s just not happening.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yep.
KYLE GETZ
You’re creating this monster that is not real. You’re the monster.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yep. Yep, yep. Be the monster you wanna see in the world… or something. I don’t know.
KYLE GETZ
Monster Energy! Go to monsterenergy.com/gayish [Mike chuckles] to get your 10% off coupon for a free Monster Energy. Wait…
MIKE JOHNSON
Oh my god, Kyle, do you think if we send people to random companies’ websites “/gayish” that eventually somebody would pay us for it? [chuckles] ‘Cause they’re like “Why did we get this spike in traffic on this random URL? Find them.”
KYLE GETZ
Yes.
MIKE JOHNSON
“Pay them money.” [laughs]
KYLE GETZ
Yes. Monster Energy is the perfect combination with Gayish, I think, because we- As we call our fans, the “little monsters”.
MIKE JOHNSON
Mhm. Mhm! [chuckles]
KYLE GETZ
We’ve always done that.
MIKE JOHNSON
[sighs] Every- Every- Everyday.
KYLE GETZ
Everyday.
MIKE JOHNSON
The whole time.
KYLE GETZ
Mhm.
MIKE JOHNSON
Always. Okay, news the last.
KYLE GETZ
Great.
MIKE JOHNSON
Uh, it’s a trifecta of trans news today, Kyle, but this one is good.
KYLE GETZ
Ooo!
MIKE JOHNSON
So, Olivia Hill was sworn in Monday evening as a member of the Metropolitan Council of Nashville and Davidson County and she is the first out trans elected official in the state of Tennessee.
KYLE GETZ
Wow!
MIKE JOHNSON
Uh, she was elected September 14th as an at-large member of the council, so that means that she represents the entire city. And, uh, she joins a council that has, for the first time, become majority-women. She said at a ceremony, quote, “Representation is everything. I’ve been approached by so many moms, and dads, and teachers and leaders that have thanked me for running because now a lot of the trans community has someone to see.” And uh, just- She said “I ran this race as a qualified human, I didn’t run this race as a trans woman, I didn’t run this race as the first trans woman or as a woman at all. I only ran this race to showcase my experience and for a right to sit at the table.” But she’s been a huge advocate for the queer community, especially in Nashville. She’s a Nashville native. She was in the US Navy from 1986-1995 and she transitioned after she got out of the military. She went to Desert Storm. She just is, like, a crazy badass, and now is an elected official in Tennessee.
KYLE GETZ
Wow. That’s awesome!
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah! There you go. That’s the news!
KYLE GETZ
That’s the news! Speaking of badass bitches, let’s talk about our Patreon members. Thank you to the following new Patreon member: Wis- Fuck.
MIKE JOHNSON
“Wisfuck”? [laughs]
KYLE GETZ
His name is Wes! I messed up “Wes”! [both laugh] Wes… Cossey, probably. [both chuckle] God dammit. Three letters, Wes, I’m sorry. You and I both thought that I could get through your first name unscathed, but herem we are. Thank you, Wes Cossey, probably, for your support. If you want to have me fuck up your name, get episodes a day early, join our Patreon. We record, on Patreon, Happy Hours. Go to patreon.com/gayishpodcast and sign up today.
MIKE JOHNSON
Great. Do it.
KYLE GETZ
Do you wanna talk about Jeeps?
MIKE JOHNSON
Meep, meep. …Yes, I do. [both chuckle]
KYLE GETZ
Again, I don’t think that’s what a Jeep sounds like.
MIKE JOHNSON
Y’know.
KYLE GETZ
Why are we talking about Jeeps, Mike?
MIKE JOHNSON
Okay, we’re talking about Jeeps because I contend that it is- Well, first, I own one. Whatever.
KYLE GETZ
Mhm. You own a Jeep… what?
MIKE JOHNSON
Wrangler.
KYLE GETZ
Okay.
MIKE JOHNSON
Unlimited 2005. Had it a long time. I will talk about it way too much throughout the course of this episode. But also, legit, I think I’ve had so many people tell me that my car is gay, that there’s something about that vehicle that me being gay checks out to them. It is a gay stereotype, and I’m fascinated by it because I totally want to unpack it because, like, gays don’t really care about cars that much. And, like, anyway, there’s just- There’s a whole bunch of stuff to unpack, I think.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah, absolutely. And that was really surprising to me. I was- In my mind, a Jeep was supposed to be a straight stereotype. Like, I thought it was a straight thing, and then the more I looked at it and, like, looked at memes and found things that people have posted, that may not be the case. So, okay, I’m gonna start with some gayta.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeaaah! Let’s do some gayta.
KYLE GETZ
Loose… Loose quotes around the word “gayta”. So loose, so quotes, because it’s just- [Mike chuckles] You know. It’s- This is very unscientific. Um, so I read an article on jezebel.com that referred to a poll that Car Talk did. I don’t know what Car Talk is or why we care about them.
MIKE JOHNSON
“Click and Clack, the Tappet Brothers”, on National Public Radio. They’re fuckin’ hilarious. I think one of them’s dead now, though.
KYLE GETZ
Oh. Okay. [both chuckle] That’s your rundown. That’s been your Car Talk talk. That has been Car Talk Talk.
MIKE JOHNSON
Okay, for sure- Now I need to know, because, like, I haven’t thought about them in a really long time. I used to listen to that show.
KYLE GETZ
Really!?
MIKE JOHNSON
And it was like- Yeah. Pre-internet days it would come on NPR. I forget where I was but I would- Like, while I was commuting it would come on a station and-
KYLE GETZ
Is this because you were trying to pretend to be straight, or just you actually liked it?
MIKE JOHNSON
No, I actually liked it.
KYLE GETZ
Hm.
MIKE JOHNSON
And that’s what’s so- so- so great about it. Because they- Yes, they talked about cars. Like, people would phone in and be like “My car keeps going ‘kachunk, kachunk, kachunk’ when I put it in reverse,” or whatever, and then they would, like, walk through it. But they might be just as likely to talk about, like, whale migration as part of their answer. Like, they were just the most ADD, bringin’ any ole random fuckin’ terrible segue they wanted to, stream of consciousness, and they were brothers and they were hilarious. Like, they fill a similar niche in my, like, heart as like the McElroy brothers.
KYLE GETZ
Ahh.
MIKE JOHNSON
It was great. Anyway, sorry. Enough about Car Talk.
KYLE GETZ
No, that’s okay. Now I know who I’m referring to. They did a poll of their… lesbian and gay listeners, but apparently also straight and other people voted as well, so, you know, whatever. Heavy on the gay and lesbians, presumably, but they got 1000s of responses about “What are the gayest and most lesbian cars?”
MIKE JOHNSON
Great. Subarus. We did a whole episode; episode, like, 7 or something.
KYLE GETZ
Episo- Early days, right? Okay, well-
MIKE JOHNSON
Season 1 for sure.
KYLE GETZ
For lesbian cars, number 5 is the Honda CR-V.
MIKE JOHNSON
Sure, okay.
KYLE GETZ
Number 4 is the Ford F-150.
MIKE JOHNSON
Wow! Okay. That’s a big-ass truck.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah, that’s a big-ass truck.
KYLE GETZ
Uh, number 3 is… Jeep Wrangler.
MIKE JOHNSON
Oh my god, am I a lesbian?
KYLE GETZ
Mmmaybe. Mmmmaybe, baby.
MIKE JOHNSON
Okay. Mhm.
KYLE GETZ
Number 2 is a Subaru Forester, number 1 is a Subaru Outback. [both chuckle]
MIKE JOHNSON
Great.
KYLE GETZ
So, you were spot-on with a Subarus.
MIKE JOHNSON
Like, some- Some stereotypes are just true.
KYLE GETZ
And intentionally- I believe, on that episode, we talked about how they intentionally marketed to the LGBT community. So it’s not just, like, a coincidence that lesbians like Subarus. It’s, like, a thing that they went after.
MIKE JOHNSON
By the way, my fraternity brother, Troy, just pulled in in his Jeep. You can see, out through the window there.
KYLE GETZ
Hey, fraternity brother Troy. He can’t hear me.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. No, he can’t. Where were we? Oh yeah, Subarus. Lesbians.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
I- Yeah, you’re right. In that episode, I think, we talked about the fact that, like, they went after lesbians as a market and did a bunch of, like, kind of subversive advertising to garner a lesbian following, and it fuckin’ worked.
KYLE GETZ
Yep. Yep, absolutely. Now the top five gay cars. I don’t know cars, so I didn’t have any guesses. Do you have any guesses about what’s on this list?
MIKE JOHNSON
Um… okay, I think- I think, uh, a MINI Cooper? You’re a faggot.
KYLE GETZ
[laughs] Ah, that’s a good one.
MIKE JOHNSON
Or a PT Cruiser, but they don’t- I don’t- I don’t think they even make those anymore.
KYLE GETZ
There are some non-manufactured-anymore vehicles on this list. Okay, um number 5 is a Mazda Miata.
MIKE JOHNSON
Okay. Yeah. That’s like- like a- like a fancy wannabe car. [chuckles]
KYLE GETZ
It’s a real little car too.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
Um, number 4 is… a Jeep Wrangler. [four successive gasps]
MIKE JOHNSON
Oh my god, Kyle, am I gay?
KYLE GETZ
So, you’re not only lesbian, you’re gay too.
MIKE JOHNSON
[chuckles] Okay, great.
KYLE GETZ
Um, number 3 is a BMW 3 Series.
MIKE JOHNSON
Oh.
KYLE GETZ
Number 2 is a V-Dub Bug.
MIKE JOHNSON
I was gonna say “Volkswagen,” yeah.
KYLE GETZ
And number 1 is a V-Dub Jetta, so we got double V-Dub on the top of the list.
MIKE JOHNSON
Wooow. Okay. My ex-wife and I had a Passat. Maybe- Like, maybe that’s why I’m gay.
KYLE GETZ
That’s probably it. You- [chuckles] I know you were straight for a while, but I do not think you Passat. …Wait. You did not Passat. Nah, never mind. That wasn’t-
MIKE JOHNSON
[laughs] Hey, you went for it. You took the swing.
KYLE GETZ
Ehhhh, yeah. …I shouldn’t have. So, basically what I’m seeing is that lesbian cars are big cars, SUVs, trucks, and gay cars are the little ones.
MIKE JOHNSON
Mhm. Mhm, mhm.
KYLE GETZ
Like, we just have- It’s this really basic stereotype that we have about cars, that, if you’re a dude, you’re supposed to drive a big car, and so, if you drive a big car you’re a lesbian.
MIKE JOHNSON
And, Jeep Wrangler is on both lists.
KYLE GETZ
But Jeep Wrangler’s the one that’s on both lists and doesn’t fit the- Like, it’s not a little tiny- little tiny baby little car like the other ones.
MIKE JOHNSON
But also, as SUVs go, it’s not massive, it’s not enormous, it’s not a fuckin’ Escalade.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah! Yeah. So there is something gay about Jeeps, at least based on this nonscientific poll from Car Talk. I was exploring a little bit more about, like, you know, why do we presume that Jeep is gay or Wranglers specifically are gay? I found a clip of Top Gear. Do you know about Top Gear?
MIKE JOHNSON
Top- Like, the magazine?
KYLE GETZ
No, it’s a British TV show where they talk about cars. I’ve watched- A long time ago I’ve watched full episodes because my straight friend wanted to, Augustia. [Mike chuckles] And they- I don’t know, they just talk about- They do car stuff. I don’t know. Anyway, there is an episode wh-
MIKE JOHNSON
Did you kinda like it though? Is it like when my dad says that he’s “forced” to watch Dancing with the Stars because it’s what his wife wants to watch but you can tell he kinda actually secretly likes it?
KYLE GETZ
No, this is not me in high school watching, like, One Tree Hill pretending I hated it. It’s- This- I really didn’t care for it.
MIKE JOHNSON
Alright.
KYLE GETZ
It was fine. It was fine. It was acceptable content to pass the day. Uh, but they had an episode where the lead guy, whose name I don’t know and it doesn’t matter, said “Isn’t this a very popular car with the gay community?” So, they even, on this really big car show, talk about the Jeep Wrangler being big within the gay community. There was a post on flyertalk.com. One of the first things that you find when you search for “gay Jeep” is one of the- a post on FlyerTalk that said “How Did the Jeep Wrangler Become a Gay Icon?” and it’s just a, you know, forum with people posting. No one posts anything interesting or helpful, but… There’s somethin’ gay about Jeep Wranglers that I was unaware of before looking into this.
MIKE JOHNSON
Hm. Hm. Hm! Any theories?
KYLE GETZ
Not yet.
MIKE JOHNSON
Okay.
KYLE GETZ
Let’s keep talking and see if one emerges.
MIKE JOHNSON
I have a couple theories, I just don’t know whether to talk about them now or sprinkle them throughout, you know?
KYLE GETZ
Ooh, I don’t know.
MIKE JOHNSON
Mm. Well, uh, I’m gonna talk to you about the history of Jeeps, of course.
KYLE GETZ
Sure.
MIKE JOHNSON
Do you know when they were invented, and why?
KYLE GETZ
1976.
MIKE JOHNSON
Great. That’s… very incorrect, but um-
KYLE GETZ
[laughs] They were created for the war? Like, World War II or somethin’? 1930?
MIKE JOHNSON
They were created for World War II, Yeah. So, uh, it was 1940 and it became really clear that the United States was going to have to enter the European theatre of World War II, and so the army reached out and asked a whole bunch of people to create prototypes for a four-wheel drive reconnaissance car, and only two companies responded: the American Bantam Car Company; and Willys–Overland. Which… it all comes back to Willys, Kyle.
KYLE GETZ
It’s always about the willies. [chuckles]
MIKE JOHNSON
Um, so, basically, they’re like “We need something that matches, like, this general, like, specification,” these two companies came back and said “Hey, here you go,” but the military said “We need- You only have 49 days to make it happen.” So, there was this dude, Karl Probst, who was a designer from Detroit, and he basically put together the first Jeep using, like, a fuck ton of parts from other cars that were already made. So- [chuckles] It’s like a zombie. It’s a Frankenstein’s monster, the Jeep is, because it was like the engine from a four-wheel drivetrain component from a company called “Spicer”, and the hood came from like a Chevy or something. It just- It literally- In order to get it done on the timeframe that they were looking for, this dude just, like, started putting parts together and hoping it would work. [Kyle chuckles] So then the army was like “Okay, yeah. Sure. Cool. Great,” did it, bought a whole bunch of them, shipped them overseas, and it turned into kind of a lot. Every Army Infantry Regiment got 145- or, an average of 145, Jeeps. So they were just deployed all over the place. And, you know, we’ve talked several times about, like, the gay history of the military and the- [chuckles] It’s not PC, but it happens, of, like, you send dudes to a place, around a bunch of dudes, and gay shit starts happening.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. Situational homosexuality. It’s, like, a real phenomenon.
MIKE JOHNSON
Right. Yeah. It’s the same thing, like, with prison. A lot of prison sex is situational…
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
…homosexuality.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
Anyway, they were so successful that, like, other countries started trying to make their own versions of the Jeep. Then they reached the consumer market. They started to be available, like just to go down to the dealership and buy one, in 1943. Sorry, the trademark was 1943. In 1945, that’s when they had the first Jeep branded product that launched and was available. So, they got made by Willys–Overland Motors until the 60s, then there was a company called “Kaiser” that got part of the process. That part doesn’t make a lot of sense to me. But, by 1970, all of those other companies had either folded or sold their investments in Jeeps, and American Motors Company [TN: American Motors Corporation] made them until 1987.
KYLE GETZ
That sounds like the name of something you would call in, like, a TV show where you can’t use any trademarks. “This is American Motors. American made. Go America.”
MIKE JOHNSON
Yep. Yep. And my family had an Eagle, which, that was an AMC car. And then Wayne, in Wayne’s World, drives and AMC Pacer, I think.
KYLE GETZ
Oh.
MIKE JOHNSON
And I forget when that company went under, but they, like, super went under, I think. Yeah, eventually Chrysler ended up with the rights to most of the manufacturing, and then Chrysler got bought out by Daimler, and then, now… I have no idea who owns them now, because it just changed again in, like, 2021 or something.
KYLE GETZ
It’s owned by… Stellantis.
MIKE JOHNSON
Sure.
KYLE GETZ
I looked that up.
MIKE JOHNSON
Great. Good. Good, good. Stellantis.
KYLE GETZ
Stellantis, yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
Oh yeah, ‘cause- I forgot. Fiat bought Chrysler, and then- but, in 2021, Stellantis got it and I know nothing about them. It’s also new… stuff. Anyway, okay, the word “jeep”, Kyle.
KYLE GETZ
Mhm.
MIKE JOHNSON
I don’t know how to- I don’t know how to transition this effectively. I don’t have a good segue here.
KYLE GETZ
Oh. Okay.
MIKE JOHNSON
But, basically, one of the theories about the word “jeep” comes from Popeye, like Popeye the Sailor Man.
KYLE GETZ
What?!
MIKE JOHNSON
Like… [chuckles] yeah. So, apparently, Popeye had a- So, Popeye the Sailor Man first appeared in 1929, and was- You know, he’s the guy that grows muscles when he eats spinach. And, um, I mean, really, between that and being in the Navy, he’s not not gay. Except, I guess he’s- He’s banging Olive Oyl… but she’s- I don’t know. Anyway, so, Popeye was a comic book and would come out however often comic books come out. Monthly? Quarterly? Something like that. But, in the March 16th, 1936, Thimble Theatre comic strip, Popeye introduced the character of Eugene the Jeep.
KYLE GETZ
And “jeep” wasn’t used at that time? Like, “Jeep” wasn’t a car at that time.
MIKE JOHNSON
Well, it wasn’t a car yet. They wouldn’t be invented until 1940, uh, 1941. But uh, Popeye asks Professor Brainstine “[What exactly is] a Jeep?” and his response is, quote, “A Jeep is an animal living in a three dimensional world—in this case our world—but really belonging to a fourth dimensional world. Here’s what happened. A number of Jeep life cells were somehow forced through the dimensional barrier into our world. They combined at a favorable time with free life cells of the African Hooey Hound. The electrical vibrations of the Hooey Hound cell and the foreign cell were the same. They were kindred cells. In fact, all things are, to some extent, relative, whether they be of this or some other world, now you see. The extremely favorable conditions of germination in Africa caused a fusion of these life cells. So the uniting of kindred cells caused a transmutation. The result, a mysterious strange animal.” It’s like- It looks like a dog with a giant dildo for a nose, but also maybe kind of a cat bear.
KYLE GETZ
Like an anteater?
MIKE JOHNSON
Ummm… Yeah, there’s some anteater vibes there.
KYLE GETZ
Okay.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. And, like, a dick for a tail. It’s just the weirdest-looking thing and, apparently, can, like- It can only say the word “jeep”.
KYLE GETZ
Hm!
MIKE JOHNSON
Like, that’s all- So, he has to, like, gesticulate and say “Jeep! Jeep!”
KYLE GETZ
Mmm. Is this an “I am Groot,” situation?
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. Yeah. Exactly right. Exactly right. And so, like, to help Popeye solve crimes or whatever the fuck Popeye does, the Jeep would, like, help. But he could also teleport. He could disappear from one place and reappear in another place. He could walk through and on walls or ceilings. It’s- I had no i- Okay. I’m not a Popeye fan. [Kyle chuckles] Like, it’s not like I’ve watched it a whole bunch. I liked the Robin Williams movie when I was a kid, but that’s just because- I don’t know. It was, like, animated and bizarre. I had no idea there was any, like, science fiction element to all of it at all, except for, like, apparently spinach makes you jacked.
KYLE GETZ
[chuckles] Yeah, me either. That description sounds like someone trying to be a smart person explaining something that’s not actually that complex. Like…
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. Yeah. Like- Like somebody writing, like, the technical jargon, the technobabble for a Star Trek show.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, totally.
MIKE JOHNSON
Like, none of those words mean anything. [both chuckle] Like, what are you doing? Yeah, so Eugene the Jeep, so that’s one theory on where the name came from. Uh, it is almost certainly incorrect. [Kyle chuckles] A, uh- Another- Well, because apparently then, when the Jeep – like, the vehicle the Jeep – was being introduced to the military, uh, so the, um urban legend goes… Is it “urban” if you’re on the beaches of Normandy? I don’t know. [Kyle chuckles] Anyway… that it seemed like a multidimensional creature that could get into and out of really tough spaces and help solve complex problems, and so one of the soldiers said “That thing’s like Eugene the Jeep,” and then it became “Jeep” and, like, “Jeep” is how it was named. That’s- None of that is right. [Kyle laughs] But it’s one of those things that, like, sounds plausible and gets repeated enough that it starts to take on a life of its own.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
The other one… Do you know who PJ Ermey [TN: R. Lee Ermey] is?
KYLE GETZ
I do not. He is- You almost certainly have seen this guy. He’s the guy that, like, “Where ya from, private Pyle?” and he says “Texas, sir!” and he says “Texas?! Hell, there’s nothing in Texas but steers and queers, and you ain’t got any horns on ya so that narrows it down a bit.” Like, he’s just a really problematic dude in the characters that he played, but he became famous for being a archetype of a drill instructor. And so then he ended up being on, like, the History Channel as, like, the crazy guy with the hat that would do- like, talk about history, like battles and shit. Do you know who I’m talking about?
KYLE GETZ
Absolutely not. [chuckles]
MIKE JOHNSON
Right. It’s fine. He’s dead now.
KYLE GETZ
Okay. [chuckles]
MIKE JOHNSON
Um, but he said, on one of those shows, that it stood for “GP”. And R. Lee Ermey did a television series called “Mail Call” and he said that “jeep” was because somebody was slurred “GP”, meaning “General Purpose” and, uh, that that’s why; somebody was just saying “GP” over again, “GP, GP, GP,” and that turned into “jeep”. Also almost certainly wrong, [Kyle chuckles] but also plausible. And that’s because they never called the Jeep a “General Purpose” vehicle and it’s highly unlikely that the average Jeep-driving GI would have been familiar with that as the designation. And, uh, GPW actually meant “G” for “Government use”, “P” for the wheelbase, and “W” because it had a Willys-Overland designed engine. Anyway, R. Lee Ermey also apparently, like, floats the “Eugene the Jeep” Popeye name thing. But the real answer is just super boring, [Kyle chuckles] that apparently all kinds of vehicles got called “jeep”. In fact, “jeep carrier” is the name of a kind of boat that the Navy has for moving shit around, and you could put all kinds of things on it, not just Jeeps… capital J “Jeep” like the car, because a “jeep” is any number of different vehicles. So, I don’t know. I’m gonna stop talking now, Kyle.
KYLE GETZ
[chuckles] Well, should I tell you about whether Jeep is gay-friendly?
MIKE JOHNSON
Yes. Are they? Do I have to sell mine? Don’t tell me if I have to sell mine. I’m gonna be real sad.
KYLE GETZ
You have the HRC sticker on the back of yours, so that makes up for any wrongdoing, right?
MIKE JOHNSON
Great. Excellent. [Kyle chuckles] If there was still, like, a gap there, I would put more stickers on it.
KYLE GETZ
Just- [chuckles] Just cover it in HRC stickers, and that way everyone knows you’re super gay. I first found the Facebook page “Gay Jeep Club of America” which had 1000 followers, which is, you know, decent amount. There was an image that said “THERE IS NO OTHER FEELING THAT COMPARES TO THAT MOMENT YOU BECOME A JEEP OWNER… IT IS THEN YOU REALIZE THAT THINGS WILL NEVER BE THE SAME,” [Mike chuckles] so that’s the kind of people we’re dealing with here.
MIKE JOHNSON
Oh my god. You know… that saying is so stupid.
KYLE GETZ
Is that- You’ve heard that before?
MIKE JOHNSON
Things will never be the same. Right now I’m gonna finish this Topo Chico and things will never be the same, Kyle.
KYLE GETZ
[chuckles] I like yours better. We should start a Topo Chico fan page and post that to it, [Mike chuckles] “After I finish this fourth Topo Chico, things will never be the same.” There’s one that says- a image that says “EQUIPPED WITH MILLENIAL ANTI-THEFT DEVICE”, and then has an image of the manual transmission.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeaaah. Yeah, yeah. It’s true.
KYLE GETZ
Which… I do not know how to drive a manual transmission. So, for Patreon…
MIKE JOHNSON
Y’all, a very special Patreon this week: I’m going to make Kyle drive my Jeep. It’s a 6-speed, manual.
KYLE GETZ
We’ll see if- I’m gonna go ahead and throw out: we’ll see if it works out with the audio and the video. Hopefully it does, but fingers crossed.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
And, there was also- The most recent image was from Pride 2021. They shared an image of a Jeep with two men holding hands in front of it, and it said “It’s always better together. #Pride”.
MIKE JOHNSON
Aww!
KYLE GETZ
So Jeep, at a minimum, shared that image in 2021 that I found in this Facebook group. So, I looked in a little bit more. 2021, there was a press release about Motor City Pride parade, in Detroit of course, and there was a- they were announcing that a specially wrapped 2021 Jeep Wrangler 4xe would serve as the grand marshal vehicle [chuckles] of the Motor City Pride parade.
MIKE JOHNSON
Okay. Great. I love that.
KYLE GETZ
There were apparently multiple other Jeeps in the Pride parade. There was another Jeep Wrangler, because one wasn’t enough. There was a Jeep Gladiator, a Jeep Grand Cherokee L. Uh, in the press release, Jim Morrison, who’s the vice president of Jeep brand North America, said, quote, “Over its 80-year history, the Jeep brand has led the way in freedom and authenticity, and we are proud to lead this year’s parade with a specially wrapped Jeep Wrangler 4xe to show our continued longstanding support for Motor City Pride and the LGBTQ community.”
MIKE JOHNSON
That’s their- uh, their hybrid one.
KYLE GETZ
Oh! Okay.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. It’s, like, partially electric. Go ahead.
KYLE GETZ
That’s cool. I- Man, I need to do better at feigning interest in car stuff. [feignedly] Oh, that’s interesting, Mike. [Mike laughs] Do go on.
MIKE JOHNSON
No, it’s fine.
KYLE GETZ
Okay. [chuckles] Uh, apparently they do have an LGBT employee resource group, which was a recent Patreon bonus episode that we did.
MIKE JOHNSON
It sure was.
KYLE GETZ
…And it is called “Prism”. It is one of 11 ERGs that they have at the company. In 2022 there was a display at Times Square, during NYC Pride. They gave out complimentary Jeep branded rainbow themed tote bags and rubber ducks.
MIKE JOHNSON
[chuckles] Great. Like, that was a journey, because at first I was like “They gave out Jeeps?” [both laugh]
KYLE GETZ
That would be real support. Jeep, step your shit up and give us all Jeeps.
MIKE JOHNSON
Now if you don’t, it’s a hate crime. [chuckles]
KYLE GETZ
Exactly. Rubber ducks though? Why?
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
I don’t get that. But anyway, I looked at HRC, the Corporate Equality Index, and… Stellantis – this is why I knew that Stellantis is the owner, they own Jeep, Dodge, and Chrysler – they scored, out of a score of 100 possible points, they scored what, Mike?
MIKE JOHNSON
100!
KYLE GETZ
95.
MIKE JOHNSON
Oh. That’s still pretty good.
KYLE GETZ
That’s still pretty good, yep. They lost 5 points in the “benefits” section. I don’t think they ha- I think they didn’t have equal protection or care for domestic partnership for same-sex spouses versus opposite-gender spouses. Anyway, I looked up other major car manufacturers. Ford scored a 90. V-Dub, who we said was pretty gay, scored a 90. Toyota scored 100. Subaru, the lesbian car of choice, scored 100. So, they’re all- This is part of my frustration with the Corporate Equality Index, is, like, they’re all kinda in the same zone of 90-100, so is it really that they’re all pretty equal, or is there actually one that’s way better than the others? This seems to indicate there’s not one standout, but I don’t know. So, at least based on their support – Jeep’s support of Pride – historically and the fact that they got a 95 on the Corporate Equality Index, I’m gonna say they are gay-friendly. So, it is acceptable that-
MIKE JOHNSON
Yes! Oh, God. Thank God. Thank the Lord.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. You can keep your Jeep. [both chuckle]
MIKE JOHNSON
Okay. Phew.
KYLE GETZ
Yep.
MIKE JOHNSON
I’ve been holding my breath for that long and now I have to pee. [Kyle chuckles] I’m gonna talk about my Jeep for a little bit and then, uh, the dude that is the designer of the Jeep the year that I was- that I had it.
KYLE GETZ
Okay.
MIKE JOHNSON
So, from- Do you remember ever saying that, like, I wanted my Jeep because it was like the last year that they looked like that?
KYLE GETZ
Oh, kind of. I sometimes vaguely listen to you.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. Okay. Well… So, [chuckles] from 1996-2006, Jeeps had a specific look and those Jeeps were TJs, and my Jeep is, like, at the end of the TJ range, it’s 2005. And the dude that designed it is named Michael Santoro and he is from San Diego, California. And he’s now- He teaches car design now, but he also founded and oversees a company that makes Apple accessories.
KYLE GETZ
Oh. No way.
MIKE JOHNSON
Like, cases and shit like that.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
But anyway, he is the one that came up with the TJ redesign of Jeeps in 1996. So, he said “Landing a-” Quote, “Landing a job as a car designer with Chrysler at 21 was unheard of. As the new kid on the team, [I] was able to bring a young and fresh perspective to everything [I] worked on for the carmaker.” “I knew that this was a great opportunity and a dream job.” “You have a better chance of playing in the NFL than you do becoming a professional car designer in the United States, so I was excited to get a chance.” But uh, the stuff that he did is really interesting because, um, the look of a Jeep has always, like, returned back to a recognizable standard, right? Like, a Ford Taurus today doesn’t look anything like a Ford Taurus from 10 years ago. Or even, like, a couple of years, sometimes, is all it takes for a car to look nothing like its former selves. But pretty much all eras of Jeeps are at least reminiscent of each other, if not full on straight-ass copies, right?
KYLE GETZ
Right, right. You can always recognize a Jeep when you see a Jeep.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yep. And he brought back a lot of stuff that had sort of, um… not “fallen out of favor”, but that Jeep had emphasized less in the design. They used to do, like, square headlights, and he returned it to round headlights. And, uh, the grille in the front, the very distinctive grille, he stylized that and then incorporated that into a lot more of the designs. And he just is a really, really interesting dude. And one thing that he did that I find fascinating is Easter eggs.
KYLE GETZ
[chuckles] What?
MIKE JOHNSON
And I don’t know if my Jeep has any easter eggs but, apparently, he hid little logos and sometimes animal creatures-
KYLE GETZ
[chuckles] What?
MIKE JOHNSON
-in the metal of the Jeep designs. So, if I look up… let’s see… “Jeep Easter eggs”… Most Jeeps have Easter eggs, and sometimes it’s as simple as, like, a little, like, just a little logo that looks like a Jeep. But, um, apparently some Jeeps have flip-flops. Like, if you look carefully you can find a picture of flip-flops in the in the metal.
KYLE GETZ
Are flip-flops associated with Jeeps?
MIKE JOHNSON
I don’t know. Well, and not all of these make sense. Like, one is a T. rex chasing a Jeep.
KYLE GETZ
[chuckles] That’s funny.
MIKE JOHNSON
There’s a map of Moab, that’s the- It’s… what, a national park or something, in Utah? Uh, just a splatter of paint… One is a lizard, one is an American flag-shaped vent, one of them is a spider that says “Ciao,” next to the gas cap. [Kyle chuckles] And they hide in weird places. So, um, like a Jeep Grand Cherokee, it’ll often be in-between the cupholders. Uh, and Jeep Wranglers, there’s a hidden area under the cargo that has them. And I- When I get home I’m gonna, like, look at my Jeep and see if I can find any of these things in my Jeep. But uh, this dude, Michael Santoro, is the first one to start hiding little cute things in the metal of these, of Jeeps. Also, he has never publicly spoken about his family life whatsoever. I could not find anything that said, like, “Oh, he has a wife and kids,” or, like, nothing about his sexuality at all, which doesn’t mean anything but he is a designer, and teaches design, and came up with this wacky-ass idea to have Italian-speaking spiders in the gas caps of Jeeps. [Kyle chuckles] So I’m just thinking, like, an above- above 50% chance that the dude that designed my Jeep is gay.
KYLE GETZ
Oh yeah? We- Us gays love our Italian spiders.
MIKE JOHNSON
Right. Yeah. [both chuckle] I love, love, love the idea of, like, “I’m just gonna hide shit in, like, plain sight in these things that people buy.” And, um… I just love it. I just love it. Okay.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
There is actually a tie in though, that I think is worth talking about.
KYLE GETZ
[chuckles] Okay.
MIKE JOHNSON
This morning, I was- Or, was it yesterday? Doesn’t matter. Time has no meaning. Uh, I was talking to a fraternity brother who also- Troy, who also drives a Jeep, about, like, “What is it that makes a Jeep gay?” And one of the theories that we sort of hashed over is that Jeep, because of this consistency of appearance, a consistency of look, it is associated with an identity of sorts, and that gay people like to feel included, they like to feel like they’re part of something. You know, I do the stupid Jeep Wrangler wave.
KYLE GETZ
Mhm.
MIKE JOHNSON
Like, if I ever see another Jeep Wrangler, I do the two finger wave off of my steering wheel. And I feel a little bit like a car racist but, at the same time, it’s nice to have this, like, little thing that we Jeep Wrangler drivers do to acknowledge each other. There’s some, like, sort of- Like, there’s an identity there. There’s a- There’s a- There’s a community of sorts, I guess, and that that’s appealing to gay people, I think, is an interesting thing to discuss.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. I guess, like, especially if you don’t have the community that you should have, which is your family…
MIKE JOHNSON
Right.
KYLE GETZ
…then finding another community is really important, and often we do that within the gay community but there are other places that you can find community. You can find community in the sports team that everyone is excited about for your city, or you can find community – who knew? – by Jeep ownership. It’s- it makes sense that humans like to be included and feel like part of something.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yep. Yep, absolutely. And there is though, I think, also, because of the military past of the vehicle, potentially an argument can be made that there’s some toxic masculinity stuff going on, right? That, like, “What’s more- What’s more manly and straight than the military?” Turns out, a whole bunch of stuff. But I don’t think that, like- [chuckles] But the military still gets credit for, I think, being a sort of butch or macho persona.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
And so there’s a, I think… I don’t know, maybe overcompensation? I don’t know. I love my Jeep though, and I didn’t feel like I was doing any of that, but maybe I was.
KYLE GETZ
There’s- Well, it’s interesting that, like, coincidentally, you have a Jeep Wrangler. It seems like that just kind of pops up with a lot of gay people, and you didn’t do it on purpose but if enough people do it accidentally then it kind of becomes a thing.
MIKE JOHNSON
Mhm. Mhm.
KYLE GETZ
When you were talking about the masc people, I was thinking about, like, the BDSM, the leather community, who are- you know, accentuate some masculine imagery as part of their interest. Like, there’s- There is some gay pockets that do accentuate masculine things, not in a toxic way, it’s just what they’re into and what kind of community they’re a part of. So, I don’t know. There is- There can be gayness to masculinity.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yep. Yep. Yeah. And also, it- Like, it’s a great vehicle to go four by four.
KYLE GETZ
Hm.
MIKE JOHNSON
Like, it can go places. It doesn’t get stuck very often. And, like, if I just wanna drive up a mountain I can. [Kyle chuckles] And I think that there’s- There’s something, like, weirdly masculine about that.
KYLE GETZ
Hm. Should I tell you about what I found on Reddit?
MIKE JOHNSON
Ooh, yeah. Okay.
KYLE GETZ
Okay. There are a couple people that are, like, asking this similar question. One person posted “What’s the correlation between Jeeps and homosexuals?” [chuckles] and the description was “I got my JK…” which… is a Jeep Wrangler? Is that what a JK is? Anyway, it’s a Jeep. Um, “…a few years back and was excited about it. I [met] up with one … friend one night and during…”
MIKE JOHNSON
Oh, this sounds like Grindr. Okay, go ahead.
KYLE GETZ
[chuckles] No! No, no, no. “I [met] up with one … friend one night and during our conversation I tell him that I … got a Jeep. Next thing [he] asks me is ‘What are you gay?’” [Mike chuckles] “I have no problem with gay people. I have a couple of really good gay friends. Just curious about it.” So, there were questions like this and posts like this that connected- that are, like, people trying to explore the connection between Jeeps and gayness. Another post I found said, um, there was- To this board game subreddit, someone posted… Apparently there was a gay Monopoly, like a version of Monopoly that was called “Gay Monopoly”. [chuckles]
MIKE JOHNSON
Oh, nice! Okay.
KYLE GETZ
Which is hilarious. I really wanna get a copy of Gay Monopoly and see what they-
MIKE JOHNSON
Yes.
KYLE GETZ
-what was Boardwalk. It was, like, “Dickwalk”, [Mike chuckles] and St. Charles Place was just “Charles’ Place” or something. I don’t know. [Mike chuckles] But they- Someone cross-posted that to Jeep and said- pointed out that Jeep-
MIKE JOHNSON
[chuckles] Sorry.
KYLE GETZ
What?
MIKE JOHNSON
All of the properties are “The Eagle”. [both laugh]
KYLE GETZ
Someone cross-posted that to the Jeep subreddit because, apparently, Jeep was a figurine in Gay Monopoly.
MIKE JOHNSON
Oh, that’s awesome.
KYLE GETZ
And some of the explanations for why that was the case, in the comments section, one said “Gay guys like their [tops open]”.
MIKE JOHNSON
[chuckles] Sure, yeah. Great.
KYLE GETZ
Um, another one said “Jeeps [are actually] popular with LGBT people the way Subarus are. LGBT are more outdoorsy and will do things with their dogs since more of them don’t have kids compared to straight couples.”
MIKE JOHNSON
Mm. Mm.
KYLE GETZ
“But specifically for Jeep, gay guys have more discretionary income to spend on image, which a Jeep would fall into.”
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
How do you feel about that explanation?
MIKE JOHNSON
Well, I- Uh… I think it’s plausible that there’s a- It- [sighs] It, like, might be true in aggregate, and we need to remember that, like, just being gay doesn’t mean that you suddenly have a whole bunch of money to spend. Like, that’s-
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
That’s, um- That’s an unfortunate thing.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
And, on the whole, white gay men especially do have a bunch of discretionary income. And, Jeeps are pretty terrible as, like, a family car. Like, there’s a lot of inconvenient things about driving a Jeep, actually.
KYLE GETZ
[chuckles] Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
Like, uh, it’s not something that you could load a bunch of kids and groceries into. I mean, you could, but there are other vehicles that are better at that. So yeah, I don’t know, it sounds plausible.
KYLE GETZ
The last post that I’ll mention is: “I need the gayest car possible on … $50k budget”. [Mike chuckles] And, in the description, it said “I’m trying to find a real dick magnet of a car. Something that, when you drive it by, every schlong, dong, and winky twitches because they know the fella’ inside [me] will really gape them good if given the chance.”
MIKE JOHNSON
Oh my god.
KYLE GETZ
[laughs] Ah, whoever this is, I love them and wish I was best friends with them. [Mike chuckles] Um, the most upvoted answer was to get the Fiat 500 Gucci Edition, which… it had- Like, I looked it up and it has, like, a kind of decal around it that is like the Gucci logo. So that seems pretty gay.
MIKE JOHNSON
Gaaaaay.
KYLE GETZ
Yep. But the second most upvoted response, with 500 upvotes, was “Jeep Wrangler with the doors off.”
MIKE JOHNSON
Mhm.
KYLE GETZ
And someone explained that answer, that it’s- They said it was “Masculine, but … also the most homoerotic vehicle on the road. You want to stretch some holes? Get a Jeep Wrangler and take the doors off. It shows you’re ready to rumble at anytime and you don’t mind getting a little dirty if it means [you’re] having fun.”
MIKE JOHNSON
MIKE JOHNSON
Oh my god.
KYLE GETZ
And then they added “Edit: for extra spice, doors off, and you drive shirtless (or naked if you’re brave)”.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yep. Yep.
KYLE GETZ
Is there something to having the, like, doors off the sides, and getting head? [laughs]
MIKE JOHNSON
Getting head? Huh.
KYLE GETZ
‘Cause it’s easy car BJs if you don’t have, like, the sides on your car.
MIKE JOHNSON
I don’t think there’s- Okay, there’s no such thing as an easy car BJ. Like, they’re just- [Kyle chuckles] Road head is inconvenient for everyone involved. So, I’ll start with that. [Kyle chuckles] And, I do really enjoy… even though I’ve never taken off the doors with a wrench, I could.
KYLE GETZ
Hm.
MIKE JOHNSON
And there’s a certain amount of, like, “That’s fuckin’ cool.”
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
It also means I don’t have power locks, so, you know, whatever. Or I can lay the windshield down or, like, take the top off and put the cloth top on instead. And, uh, I am into all of that. I- [sighs] I don’t know where it comes from but, like, the, like, shirtless bros in a topless Jeep… like, that’s a vibe. That’s a thing.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. For sure.
MIKE JOHNSON
Where does that come from? Because I don’t think it’s Queer as Folk, right? Like, people like to say “Oh, Brian Kinney drove a Jeep in the original Queers as Folk,” or “…the United States version of the original Queer as Folk.” [chuckles]
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. Yeah, yeah. But I don’t think he started- I think they reflected something that was already going on in culture.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
A lot of times, when it gets to the point where it’s in media, it’s something that’s already being discussed or already kind of known, they’re just pulling from that kind of image. So I think they just mirrored back what was already happening, and I don’t- It seems like- Maybe it’s not just associated with gay people in general, but this kind of masculine masc gay dude that is maybe a little bit shitty, like the Brian Kinney type. Like, maybe that’s the kind of gay guy this’s associated with. Maybe it’s a car that gay guys feel masculine driving because of… it has these masc vibes, and that’s why it’s not, you know, the tiny cars that I mentioned earlier of the gay ones. It’s like they can… I don’t know, feel a little bit, like, cool and straight bro by driving it.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
KYLE GETZ
The last comment I’ll read, on the guy that wanted the gayest possible car, said “I’m a straight man but I love everything about this post. Wishing you the best in your quest for car and cock”.
MIKE JOHNSON
[chuckles] That’s so supportive.
KYLE GETZ
So supportive! I wish this person the best in car and cock too.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. I wish all of us the best in car and cock.
KYLE GETZ
All of us, [chuckles] yeah. Exac- And all the good night.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
Um, when you bought your car, you were… in the closet.
MIKE JOHNSON
No, I was not.
KYLE GETZ
Oh, you weren’t?
MIKE JOHNSON
No. So, that Jeep was my 30th birthday present to myself.
KYLE GETZ
Ohhhh.
MIKE JOHNSON
And I- My birthday is November 14th, and I was determined to come out of the closet before the age of 30. So, uh, I told One Ball Dan towards the end of October. My now-ex-wife was planning a 30th birthday party thing for me, and that’s when I pulled the parachute cord and called Dan and I was like… “This is the phone call that you said I could make if I needed to. Come pick me up,” and he did. So then I started living in his place. I needed a vehicle and I’d always wanted a Jeep, found this one listed, and went out and got it. And here it is almost 15 years later. I’m turning 45 next month, um, and I’ve had the same rig this whole time.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
I came out of the closet, left my ex-wife, and bought that Jeep, like, all the same week.
KYLE GETZ
Damn. So, the Jeep is- Is the Jeep like a symbol of your coming out, to you? Like, does that feel- Is that all tied together for you?
MIKE JOHNSON
I think so. It’s gotta- Like, at some level, clearly. Like, ‘cause it all- It all literally correlates, right?
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
And, I really, really, really like not having a car payment, so that’s, like, one reason not to get rid of it. Like, I’m gonna just keep driving it until it dies. But yeah, I think there’s something nice and familiar about it. Like, I’ve had that rig for so long it’s, like, part of me and part of my identity, and I will be very, very sad when it dies, or I sell it, or whatever.
KYLE GETZ
Would you get another Jeep after this one?
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah! Yeah. For sure.
KYLE GETZ
So it really is part of your identity.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. I think so. And I love it. Like, I was obsessed with Jeeps before I bought mine too. Like, my mom’s brother, my uncle, had a Jeep. It was a- It’s a really old Jeep, it’s like a CJ or something and, um, I got to drive it. He got really wasted and needed me to drive him home, and so I did and I was, like, driving this Jeep and had three on the tree shifting and I was like “This is fuckin’ badass and cool.” Also, it kind of sounded like it was gonna fall apart at any moment but, [Kyle chuckles] you know, it still was awesome. It wouldn’t go over, like, 55. It wasn’t geared high enough. But yeah, I loved- I was always, always excited about Jeeps, and specifically the Wrangler too. Like, again, it feels a little car racist but, like, Jeep Wrangler drivers wave at each other. Jeep Grand Cherokee drivers can fuck right off.
KYLE GETZ
[chuckles] Wow. So, suck on that, Grand Cherokee listeners.
MIKE JOHNSON
[chuckles] I mean, not really, obviously, but…
KYLE GETZ
[chuckles] No, stand by your beliefs, Mike! Hold tight to that. Fuck you, Grand Cherokee, you’re a dumb car for idiots.
MIKE JOHNSON
Well, and also, Kyle, that Jeep, my Jeep, is like the beginning of our relationship. I was literally behind the wheel of that Jeep the first moment we met.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I hopped into your Jeep. Yours was- I mean, it’s an easy car to spot. Like- Okay, there’s also this meme about, like, someone coming to pick you up and telling you what car they’re driving and then it’s like “My gay ass looking up what a…” you know, [Mike chuckles] “…V-Dub Jetta looks like,” and I do that all the time. But I know what a Jeep looks like, you know? That’s distinctive enough that I don’t have to Google what car this is or use the little image on the, you know, on the Lyft thing to tell me what car I’m looking for. So, it’s very distinctive, so that was easy to find you.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah! Yeah. Yes. Also, I think my ex-wife was living in the same building at the time, sort of.
KYLE GETZ
[gasps] In the building I lived in?
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
Oooh, interesting. But I had no idea who she was because I- Did I ever- I don’t think I ever met her.
MIKE JOHNSON
I don’t think you did either.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. Hm.
MIKE JOHNSON
Uh, she thought we were banging, because I posted a picture that you were in on Facebook from an event that we had gone to or whatever, and she was sure that you were who I was banging and she was real mad about it. It was hilarious.
KYLE GETZ
Everyone always assumes if you- Someone posted in discord, like, a picture of him and two other guys and he had, like, clarified, like, “No one in this picture is dating.” [both chuckle] Like, everyone always assumes, if you post a picture of two gay dudes, that they’re dating.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. Yep. Did we do it?
KYLE GETZ
Yeah! I think we talked about Jeep a bunch. I don’t think we figured it out though. Like, there’s definitely something gay about Jeep Wranglers specifically, and I don’t totally understand why.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. I agree, and I don’t understand why. Maybe this one’s just “It is ‘cause it is.”
KYLE GETZ
Maybe it is ‘cause it is. If you have any theories, let us know. Hit us up on Facebook or our Discord and let us know why Jeep Wranglers are kinda gay.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. Don’t forget to thumbs up and subscribe.
KYLE GETZ
Mhm. [Mike chuckles] Do it.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. Are you excited to drive my Jeep?
KYLE GETZ
Oh, I’m nervous.
MIKE JOHNSON
Okay.
KYLE GETZ
How easy is it to break a Jeep?
MIKE JOHNSON
It’s… It’s hard to break it.
KYLE GETZ
Okay, that’s ideal, because we’ll see- We’ll see how I do.
MIKE JOHNSON
[burps] Alright, man, should we take a break?
KYLE GETZ
Yeah, let’s take a break. [chuckles]
MIKE JOHNSON
Let’s take a break.
[Break music plays, sung by MIKE JOHNSON]
This is the part where Mike and Kyle take a break!
MIKE JOHNSON
Uh, do you have your Gayest & Straightest already, Kyle?
KYLE GETZ
I do.
MIKE JOHNSON
Should we just, like, do it then?
KYLE GETZ
Yeah, let’s do it.
MIKE JOHNSON
So, are we back?
KYLE GETZ
We’re back!
MIKE JOHNSON
[chuckles] We’re back.
KYLE GETZ
We’re gonna do our Gayest & Straightest.
MIKE JOHNSON
We’re gonna do our Gayest & Straightest but, first, our website is gayishpodcast.com.
KYLE GETZ
We are on socials, @gayishpodcast. Check us out on Instagram.
MIKE JOHNSON
Our hotline, you can send us text messages or leave us voicemails, is 5855-Gayish. That’s 585-542-9474. Standard rates apply.
KYLE GETZ
Our email is gayishpodcast@gmail.com.
MIKE JOHNSON
And our physical mailing address is Post Office Box 19882 Seattle, Washington 98109. Hey..!
KYLE GETZ
Hey!
MIKE JOHNSON
…you dirty fuckers. See you in Houston in just a couple of days.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah! We’re so excited to be there.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
It’s gonna be a really fun show. You’re gonna enjoy it.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeaaah. Also, uh, Local Gay Bar Review! Are you ready?
KYLE GETZ
Ooo. I’m ready.
MIKE JOHNSON
Great, here we go. I’m gonna talk to you about- I can’t say this. I don’t know. I don’t know how- It’s in French.
KYLE GETZ
Oh. [chuckles]
MIKE JOHNSON
Uh, La Champmesle? [TN: saying it like “SHOMP-mel-ay”] La Champmesle? [TN: like “SHOMP-meh-sel”] Mis-ley? Uh, it’s a- Le French word.
KYLE GETZ
[chuckles] “Le French word,” I love that.
MIKE JOHNSON
…In Paris. Uh, had an adorable blue neon sign. It was a tiny little bar. And here’s the thing: Europe, get your shit together. You can smoke in so many bars in Europe…
KYLE GETZ
Oh, wow.
MIKE JOHNSON
…and I hate it so much. It was my first experience in Grenoble, uh, was all smoky. And this was just, like- It just was hotboxing cigarettes. It was horrible. [Kyle chuckles] Uh, the only beer that they had was Heineken, which I hate. It’s too skunky. Uh, the lesbian behind the bar did not speak English and was very angry at us for not speaking French. Um, and then a tiny Heineken plus two waters was 15 euros. Anyway, 2 dildos. [chuckles]
KYLE GETZ
How did it get- Okay, where did the 2 come from? What positive traits did it have? [chuckles]
MIKE JOHNSON
It was not in this country, and, uh, I liked their sign. [chuckles]
KYLE GETZ
Okay. Okay, got it. Every time you do this, I learn a little bit more about the rating system that we got going on, [Mike chuckles] so that’s very helpful.
MIKE JOHNSON
“System” is a strong word.
KYLE GETZ
Syst- [chuckles] Um, do you wanna do our Gayest & Straightest?
MIKE JOHNSON
Sure, let’s do our Gayest & Straightest. The gayest thing about me this week is: I saw Lorna Luft perform last night at the Purple Room here in Palm Springs, California. She is Judy Garland’s other daughter, she’s Liza Minnelli’s sister.
KYLE GETZ
Oh.
MIKE JOHNSON
And, eh, she was fine. [Kyle chuckles] Um, and then the straightest thing about me this week was just, like, talking about Jeeps with my fraternity brother. Like-
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
It felt so butch. Totes masc.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. So masc. My straightest is: I almost ordered an old fashioned to drink. I went out- [Mike gasps] What? [chuckles]
MIKE JOHNSON
Just almost counts, I think.
KYLE GETZ
I- The fact that I was even considering it is very straight to me. I went to get drinks with our favorite gay priests, Joseph Peters-Mathews, and I came real close to ordering that. Instead, I got this vodka drink that was served in a mini novelty bathtub.
MIKE JOHNSON
Oh. Yeees! Did you go to Canon?
KYLE GETZ
No, I went to- I don’t know what Canon is. I went to Bait Shop.
MIKE JOHNSON
Bait Shop has bathtubs too? Anyway, it’s fine.
KYLE GETZ
Mhm.
MIKE JOHNSON
Great. Awesome!
KYLE GETZ
What’s Canon?
MIKE JOHNSON
It’s a cocktail bar on Capitol Hill.
KYLE GETZ
Oh!
MIKE JOHNSON
I think it’s straightish.
KYLE GETZ
Oh. Maybe that’s why I haven’t heard of it. And we have a listener’s Gayest & Straightest…
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah we do.
KYLE GETZ
…from our voicemail.
DUSTIN [voicemail]
Hi, this is Dustin calling in from Canada with my Gayest & Straightest. So, my gayest this week is that I started the separation and divorce process with my husband of 9 years. And my straightest is: falling off a 12 foot ladder at my construction job, injuring my foot and ankle, and proceeding to tell absolutely no one.
MIKE JOHNSON
Dusti, you’re a sweetheart.
KYLE GETZ
Dustin, thanks for calling in. Sorry to hear about your divorce, and sorry to hear about your injury. I hope you’re recovering and maybe saw a doctor if you need to, because that sounds painful.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. Yeah. Stupid boys, go to the doctors when you need to. Don’t try to tough it out.
KYLE GETZ
Go to doctors when you get hurt. [chuckles]
MIKE JOHNSON
The leg you save might be your own.
KYLE GETZ
[laughs] But if you want us to play your Gayest & Straightest, leave us a voicemail. Give us a call and leave us a message with your Gayest & Straightest.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yep. Do it.
KYLE GETZ
I think that’s it, right?
MIKE JOHNSON
I think that’s it. Rate, review, rubscribe, and recommend. We haven’t said the 4 Rs in a while. Um, and uh, yeah, thank you to Popeye the Sailor Man.
KYLE GETZ
Sure. Uh, thank you to Jeep for being kinda pretty gay somehow, in a way that we don’t understand.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
A confusing gay.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. Thank you for… helping me get laid.
KYLE GETZ
[chuckles] And thank you to our Super Gap Bridgers: Kit Oliver, Andrew Bugbee, William Bryant, Christopher M, John Crawley, Stephen Portch, Joh Stoessel, Harry Shaw, Josh Copeland, Jonathan Montañez, Waddu, Forrest Nail, Patrick Martin, James Barrow, Steve Douglas, Explosive Lasagna, Michael Cubbington, Just Jamie, Kevin Henderson, Tomas B, Timothy Saura, DustySands, AE Coleman, Chris Khachatourians, and Jerome York. Thank you for your support.
MIKE JOHNSON
Thank you for your money! [both chuckle] Um, yeah! That’s it. This has been Gayish. From the Chris Khachatourians studios, I’m Mike Johnson.
KYLE GETZ
I’m Kyle Getz. Until next week, be butch, be fabulous, be you! See ya in Houston.
MIKE JOHNSON
Meep, meep. [both chuckle]
[Outro music plays, instrumental]
MIKE JOHNSON
[chuckles] Yeah, I do have to pee though.
KYLE GETZ
Okay.
MIKE JOHNSON
[chuckles] I’m going now.
KYLE GETZ
I’m going.
[Transcriptionist: C Dixon, CMDixonWork@gmail.com]
What’s up Bayou City! It’s Space City’s time to shine when Mike and Kyle talk about the 713 in a very obvious ploy to sell live show tickets. See you at the show, H-Town!
In this episode: News- 4:52 || Main Topic (Houston)- 17:24 || Gayest & Straightest- 1:11:51
Come see us live in Houston! Visit www.gayishpodcast.com/live for tour dates, details and tickets. We can’t wait to see you!
On the Patreon bonus segment, Mike shares Houston’s performance on HRC’s LGBT friendly city rankings. If you want to support our show while getting ad-free episodes a day early, go to www.patreon.com/gayishpodcast.
FULL EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
INTRO MUSIC [MIKE JOHNSON SINGING]
When you know that you are queer but your favorite drink is beer, that’s Gayish. You can bottom without stopping but you can’t stand going shopping, that’s Gayish. Oh, Gayish. You’re probably Gayish. Oh life’s just too short for narrow stereotypes. Oh, it’s Gayish. We’re all so Gayish. It’s Gayish with Mike and Kyle.
MIKE JOHNSON
Hello, everyone in the podcast universe. This is Gayish.
KYLE GETZ
The podcast that reminds you to buckle up… for this dick!
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah, [chuckles] okay. I mean, it’s good advice either way, whether you finished the sentence or not.
KYLE GETZ
Yes. Exactly.
MIKE JOHNSON
Uh, I’m Mike Johnson.
KYLE GETZ
I’m Kyle Getz.
MIKE JOHNSON
We’re here to bridge the gap between sexuality and actuality. And, today…
KYLE GETZ
Today, in this shameless style that you’ve come to love…
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeaaah. This is not just a ploy to get Houstonians to buy fuckin’ tickets for our fuckin’ live show, you dickbags.
KYLE GETZ
And- [Mike chuckles] Oh, hey, lovely listeners, we care about you and want you to attend our show, because we think it’ll be fun for you and all of us.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeaah. I was gonna sing a song about Houston but then we’d have to put it on the list, and it’s bad. I don’t want it on the list. [chuckles]
KYLE GETZ
There’s a Houston song?
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah… Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
Okay. But you don’t wanna-?
MIKE JOHNSON
If I talk about it more, we have to put it on the list. [chuckles]
KYLE GETZ
Okay. Okay. This is an ominous- Sure.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
We don’t have to talk about it. Um, come out to our Houston show. Gayishpodcast.com/live for tickets.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeaaah. It’s on Sunday, October 15th at Kiki, at noon. Do it.
KYLE GETZ
Do it. I want to read some feedback.
MIKE JOHNSON
Great. Read some feedback, Kyle. Wait. First, is it gonna make me cry?
KYLE GETZ
No.
MIKE JOHNSON
Is it gonna make you cry?
KYLE GETZ
No. No one’s- No one needs to cry about this one.
MIKE JOHNSON
Then I’m out. I don’t want it. [chuckles]
KYLE GETZ
Oh. Okay, you can tune out. You can sing your Houston song to yourself while I read this.
MIKE JOHNSON
Okay. Great.
KYLE GETZ
Uh, this was on our Discord.
MIKE JOHNSON
Oh.
KYLE GETZ
“Just finished this latest episode while making breakfast. Great episode, as always.” This is about the Circuit Party episode.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
“And shockingly relevant, as I just went to my first circuit event this weekend.
MIKE JOHNSON
Hm!
KYLE GETZ
“I shared a lot of the hang-ups that were expressed about these events, but I honestly had the best time ever. It might have just been the party I went to – Arizona only has so many options – but the folks there were diverse, the events were a blast, and I got to really revel in being queer for a weekend. Anyway, thanks for another great episode, y’all.”
MIKE JOHNSON
Aww.
KYLE GETZ
And we got this- Oh, that was from… fuck me. Uh, Gayrizona. I don’t know how to say “Gayrizona”.
MIKE JOHNSON
Great.
KYLE GETZ
And we got that feedback in nicer and meaner ways, of people expressing that we, you know, have a lot of hang-ups about the events, and there are events that are welcoming, and accepting, and would totally be fine for us to attend, and we wouldn’t feel as alienated – I think – as we feared.
MIKE JOHNSON
I also got more than one person who DM’d me to let me know that they were in the 11% that goes for the booze, not for the drugs.
KYLE GETZ
Oh, really?
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. [chuckles] Like-
KYLE GETZ
Great.
MIKE JOHNSON
That’s fine. Like, I don’t know- You know, you can do whatever you want to. You don’t- [chuckles] I felt like they were maybe trying to justify things. Or, like, were we judgy about it? I don’t know. Like…
KYLE GETZ
Uh, we were a little judgy on circuit gays.
MIKE JOHNSON
Alright. Um… that’s it?
KYLE GETZ
Nope.
MIKE JOHNSON
No?
KYLE GETZ
Uh, National Coming Out Day is October-
MIKE JOHNSON
Oh, well, son of a bitch. I was just moving that in my notes. I was like, “Well, maybe we can talk about it later.”
KYLE GETZ
Oh.
MIKE JOHNSON
[sighs] Come out, come out, wherever you are, young listener.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. Wait, why were you gonna talk about it later? Were you gonna talk about it on the news or somethin’?
MIKE JOHNSON
Well, ‘cause there’s a section in my template that says “calls to action” and that’s at the end of the show. But, like, this part of the show, we talk about whatever we want to. It’s fine, Kyle. Just-
KYLE GETZ
[chuckles] Okay. Okay. Um, it’s National Coming Out Day October 11th. So, if you haven’t come out and want to, this is a fun time to do it. And, if you’re already out, it’s a good time to celebrate being out. And if you’re not ready to come out, that’s okay too. So it’s a time for anyone to celebrate, no matter where you’re at.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yep. Yep. I want to I want to reiterate: everybody has the right to come out in the time, place, and manner of their own choosing. And, there’s a national holiday around coming out if you needed that little extra oomph to get that heinie out of the closet.
KYLE GETZ
Mhm.
MIKE JOHNSON
Here’s- here’s your push. But also, if it’s not safe to or you’re not ready yet, that’s totally valid too.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah, absolutely.
MIKE JOHNSON
I send a message to my team every year saying just how fucking gay I am and thanking them for letting me be out at work.
KYLE GETZ
Aw, that’s really sweet of you.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. Everyone should do that; it makes you a good person.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah, that’s a great idea. That’s a great idea. [Mike laughs] Okay, now the news.
MIKE JOHNSON
Now the news.
[News segment intro plays, sung by MIKE JOHNSON]
Shut your mouth hole it’s time for your ear holes, news, news, news.
MIKE JOHNSON
Okay, Kyle.
KYLE GETZ
Okay, Mike.
MIKE JOHNSON
News the first.
KYLE GETZ
Great.
MIKE JOHNSON
Okay, Catherine Leavy, 37 years old, on this last Thursday, pleaded guilty to one count of making a false bomb threat and one count of intentionally conveying false or misleading information that a bomb was on the way to the hospital. [chuckles]
KYLE GETZ
To the hospital?
MIKE JOHNSON
Yep. She found out that Boston Children’s Hospital provided gender-affirming care to trans youth. And, uh, she was convinced that that meant that they were doing genital surgery on babies, and sent them a message saying, quote, “There is a bomb on the way to the hospital, you better evacuate everybody you sickos.” Oh, not a text message. This was a phone call. So the hospital was locked down, a bomb squad was dispatched. Of course, no explosive devices were found because, like… they’re way more interested in making noise than action, I think. But uh, authorities then were very quickly able to trace the call to a phone subscribed in her name and establish that the phone’s GPS indicated that it was in her home at the time that the telephone call was made. And uh, yeah. So they searched the place, found the phone. She had an interview with law enforcement at the time and she said “Yeah, Boston Children’s Hospital is fuckin’ sickos.” Like [chuckles] “They’re doin’ surgeries on babies.” Like, it’s just- Oh my god.
KYLE GETZ
Well, okay… they’re doing surgeries on babies and that’s called “circumcision”, so… [both chuckle] if you’re worried about surgeries on babies, let’s start there. But you’re- They’re the “sickos”? You’re the one that called in a bomb threat on a children’s hospital. Jesus Christ, man!
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. Yep. Yep. It’s just so- Oh my God. It’s not happening.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
Like, I don’t understand. Like, there are so many actual problems that we could be focusing our time and attention on, that are not this made up horseshit.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
And, like- And again – I go back and forth on this – even if it were true, it’s not just because this little girl wakes up one day and says “I want a penis now,” like, and then they just do it with no, like- Like, it’s a team of doctors and psychiatrists, and, like, they involve the parents, and it’s got to be- It’s not just the capriciousness of a child. And this- Anyway… And, it’s not happening. Like, that’s the other thing.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. [Mike sighs] It’s something that- It would- It sounds scary, and so I could imagine someone being worried about it… and then you look into it for a second and you learn it’s not, and then you get to stop there. Like, yes, be worried about the potential dangers that may befall children of all kinds. Let’s all be worried about it and care about children.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah, I don’t care that much. Good ahead.
KYLE GETZ
[chuckles] Or we don’t care about kids. They can fend for themselves. [both chuckle] Whatever.
MIKE JOHNSON
No, yeah, you’re right. You’re super right. Well, she faces up to 15 years in prison and a fine of $500,000 If she’s convicted on both counts. And uh, given that it’s Boston and super-ass liberal, the chances of that are pretty good, I think.
KYLE GETZ
Good.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah! Anyway… news the second?
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
Uh, The Trevor Project has named their Suicide Prevention Advocate of the Year and has selected this year Dylan Mulvaney.
KYLE GETZ
Yaaaay.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yaaaay! She’s the reason I drink Bud Light now. Um, with her- [Kyle laughs] With her Days of Girlhood series of videos on TikTok, which has amassed over a billion views, The Trevor Project says that she has, quote, “emerged as a beacon of trans joy, positivity, and inspiration for the LGBTQ community.” Um, and like I alluded to just a moment ago, she’s gotten a lot of hate from anti-trans forces because she promoted Bud Light beer. So…
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
…But Light needed to be cancelled, I guess. I legit- I mean, I’m doing keto now again, Kyle, so I’m not drinking a lot of beer. But when I was drinking beer until very recently, I legit would, like, look for Bud Light and have one just because… somebody’s gotta reward that behavior. [laughs]
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. Yeah. How’d that Bud Light taste, Mike?
MIKE JOHNSON
It’s so bad. [both laugh] I hate it so much.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
But I, you know, felt-
KYLE GETZ
But you were supporting them.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah, exactly right. It was- Anti-bigot Bud Light tastes delicious inside my soul.
KYLE GETZ
Mhm. Yes. [chuckles] Your tongue hated it but your soul loved it.
MIKE JOHNSON
[chuckles] Kevin Wong, who’s the senior vice president of marketing, communications, and content at The Trevor Project, said, quote, “In a world where LGBTQ young people too often face adversity and discrimination, Dylan Mulvaney stands as a source of light and hope, reminding us that there is strength in unity and power in vulnerability,” “Dylan is an exemplary possibility model for LGBTQ young people to envision a world for themselves where they can be happy, successful, and thrive openly and authentically.”
KYLE GETZ
Aw.
MIKE JOHNSON
Apparently she raised nearly $200,000 for The Trevor Project with her “Day 365 Live!” cabaret performance. Don’t know what that is, but it sounds exhausting. [Kyle laughs] Uh, but she- It was all a “Days of Girlhood” series that she did that celebrated her transition. And uh, yeah, she just seems- She just seems really great, and she’s adorable.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. Good for her for doing all that work, and being out, and open, and visible. And she’s dealt with a lot of flak and shit, so, you know…
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
Awesome to have people like that out.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yep. And, like… we need to, like- I wish that we could get more mileage, actually- More traction, not mileage. But I think we should get more traction out of the truth, that to be anti-trans is killing kids because they will harm themselves and commit suicide in an unsupportive environment. Like, it- I just don’t- Like, regardless of how you feel in your heart about whether you understand it or support it, you can’t get around the fact that it directly causes suicide. So, like…
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
…at the very least, shut the fuck up.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
If not, get on board and be helpful.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. They don’t care about that, they just care about what God says, and God apparently does not care about children, I guess. I don’t know.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. Um, okay, news the last.
KYLE GETZ
Great.
MIKE JOHNSON
US Senator Dianne Feinstein of California has died at age 90, and, um, she’s been a champion of LGBTQ+ equality, with a couple of exceptions that I’m going to go into. I think it’s important to not just, you know, make her a savior. But uh, some things I did not know about Dianne Feinstein: she was a member of the San Francisco Board of Supervisors at the time that Harvey Milk was assassinated.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah, I didn’t realize that either.
MIKE JOHNSON
And, apparently, she’s the one that found his body.
KYLE GETZ
Oh my god.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. But she started in 1969 and was on the board in 1978 when that board passed the most far-reaching gay rights ordinance in the nation, at least, you know, at the time. She became acting mayor in November of 1978, when Mayor George Moscone was assassinated along with Supervisor Harvey Milk. She was the one who found Milk’s body and the one who announced their deaths to the public as acting mayor. She referred to that day as, quote, “one of the darkest of my life.” She said that she regretted that she hadn’t been able to do something to stop Dan White, who was the shooter. He was the one that used the Twinkie defense, as you may recall. He resigned from the board of supervisors but changed his mind and wanted his position back but the mayor had already appointed someone else, and she wanted to explain that decision to him but never got the chance. She sort of felt that maybe he could be reasoned with, which… I don’t know, maybe seems like survivor’s guilt to me. Uh, she was mayor of San Francisco and uh, in 1982, vetoed an ordinance that would have allowed unmarried couples to register their domestic partnerships and extended spousal benefits to the same-sex partners of city employees. She said later that she didn’t oppose the concept at all, but that she just thought it was really shitty- “Shittily”? That’s not a word. …Poorly written law.
KYLE GETZ
Gotcha.
MIKE JOHNSON
And uh, San Francisco eventually got there and adopted a very similar ordinance in 1989. She ordered the city’s bathhouses to be closed during the HIV crisis, which is pretty controversial…
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
…and stigmatizing.
KYLE GETZ
We talked about that on the episode about San Francisco.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. I just didn’t- I didn’t connect the dots until she died that it was her. Like, when we were like “The mayor of San Francisco,” blah, blah, blah… like, that was Dianne Feinstein, was [chuckles] the one that was doing that.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
Uh, but she was elected to the Senate in 1992. She’s the longest-serving woman in the history of the Senate. She was only 1 of 14 senators that voted against DOMA, the Defense of Marriage Act. She favored civil unions publicly instead of full marriage equality, but that was something that even fuckin’ Barack Obama did. Like, just, things have moved so quickly. You sort of had to politically toe the line of saying “everything but marriage” if you were a Democrat.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
And, um, I don’t believe for a second that she was, like, not actually on board, you know what I mean?
KYLE GETZ
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, totally.
MIKE JOHNSON
Uh, she spoke against California’s Prop 8, in 2008, which would have amended their state constitution to revoke marriage equality. And she also introduced legislation in Congress to repeal DOMA, in 2011. And she also introduced the newest version of the Respect for Marriage Act which makes marriage equality still US law even if the Supreme Court reverses Obergefell v. Hodges.
KYLE GETZ
Oh.
MIKE JOHNSON
Which, um- So, that actually- If the Supreme Court continues its crazy fuckin’ ridiculous trend of overturning rights for queer people and women… people of color – who knows? – at least marriage equality will stick around. Congress can undo that law, but it won’t automatically go back to no gay marriage in this country.
KYLE GETZ
That’s kinda nice, that there’s a little bit of a safety net. [chuckles] I didn’t realize that.
MIKE JOHNSON
A little bit of one, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. She supports the – or, supported – the Employment Non-Discrimination Act, the Equality Act, Matthew Shepard and James Byrd Jr. Hate Crimes Prevention Act. She had supported the repeal of “Don’t ask, don’t tell”. She just… you know, except for maybe the bathhouses thing and not being as vocal about supporting marriage equality as she maybe could have been… she’s been just an absolute lion for gay people in the United States Senate. …Yeah, and I hope that her health issues and the calls for her to resign because she clearly was on the struggle bus for the last couple of years [both chuckle] don’t tarnish that reputation or legacy.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
Uh, but thanks, Dianne. You’ll be missed.
KYLE GETZ
Thanks, Big D.
MIKE JOHNSON
[chuckling] That’s the news. “Big D” is what we always call her, here on the show. [laughs]
KYLE GETZ
We always call her- We in the community always call her “Big D”. Um, speaking of other people with big Ds, I want to thank the following Patreon members: Gary… Oh Gary.
MIKE JOHNSON
Stands for “dollars”, Kyle.
KYLE GETZ
Stands for “Big Dollaz”. Thank you to Gary for having a single, easy name that even I couldn’t fuck up.
MIKE JOHNSON
Thanks, Gary.
KYLE GETZ
Thank you to Jacob Mundell. [gasps] Hi, Jacob.
MIKE JOHNSON
[gasps] Yeah, we know that bitch!
KYLE GETZ
Yeah! Uh, thank you to Patrick. Ooo, another name I’m not fuckin’ up.
MIKE JOHNSON
Like, from SpongeBob maybe?
KYLE GETZ
Yep, from SpongeBob… [Mike chuckles] under the sea. …Carlos Calderon, and Roman alexander.
MIKE JOHNSON
Oh.
KYLE GETZ
Oh.
MIKE JOHNSON
That seems redundant, right?
KYLE GETZ
…What? [Mike chuckles] …Oh, okay.
MIKE JOHNSON
No, he was Greek. Never mind, it’s fine.
KYLE GETZ
Got it. Got it. I gotchu. I’m with you now. Um, thank you to all of our Patreon members. I don’t know if we say this: we use Patreon funds to do things like have Derek, our producer, we do things like buy equipment, we do our live show tour because of it. So, we couldn’t do all the things that we do without your support. So, thank you so much. If you want to support us, go to patreon.com/gayishpodcast.
MIKE JOHNSON
Also, speaking of Derek, it’s his birthday. Send him gifts and/or bring them with you to the show in Houston and give them to him in person.
KYLE GETZ
Yeaaah! We have our PO box on gayishpodcast.com/contact.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeaaah, do it.
KYLE GETZ
Do you wanna talk about Houston?
MIKE JOHNSON
No.
KYLE GETZ
Okay. [Mike laughs] Alright. Bye, everybody.
MIKE JOHNSON
Let’s talk about Houston! You’re from Houston, Kyle. You’re from Katy, but it’s Houston.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. It’s the suburbs of Houston, yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
Do you claim Houston?
KYLE GETZ
Whenever I talk to people that are not from Texas I say “Houston” just because, like, who’s gonna know the names of suburbs? But if I am talking to someone who is actually from Texas I will say “Katy”, because people will know where that is.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. Okay. Alright. Well, I am gonna talk to you about the history of Houston.
KYLE GETZ
Okay.
MIKE JOHNSON
Just a couple of little things though.
KYLE GETZ
Okay.
MIKE JOHNSON
Not too much. Well, okay, so first some stuff about Houston though that I thought was, like, at least mildly interesting. It is the 4th most populous city in the US. I don’t- I knew it was up there but I wouldn’t have said “4th”.
KYLE GETZ
Oh. Yeah, I probably woulda.
MIKE JOHNSON
Like, that’s a big-ass city.
KYLE GETZ
It’s a big-ass city.
MIKE JOHNSON
New York, LA, and Chicago are the only ones with more people in this country. Let’s see… It is also, like, physically large. It’s not just populous, but it is spread out as fuck. It’s 640 square miles, so it actually has a really low population density, comparatively speaking, which I thought-
KYLE GETZ
Yep!
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah, go ahead.
KYLE GETZ
There’s tons of space. Like, housing, that’s why housing is cheaper. And… yeah, there’s just, like… You have to have a car.
MIKE JOHNSON
There’s- I hate it. [Kyle chuckles] Don’t tell LA, but it’s also, like, why I hate LA. It’s the same thing, of just, like… so spread out. Oh my god.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
I don’t hate LA.
KYLE GETZ
Do you?
MIKE JOHNSON
Well… I have fun every time I’m there.
KYLE GETZ
Oh, good!
MIKE JOHNSON
…But I would not wanna live there.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah, same.
MIKE JOHNSON
Um, okay, so the history of Houston, Kyle. Do you know about the history of Houston?
KYLE GETZ
Absolutely not.
MIKE JOHNSON
I think this story is hilarious.
KYLE GETZ
Okay.
MIKE JOHNSON
So, [chuckles] basically, there were these brothers, and they were named John Kirby Allen and Augustus Chapman Allen, and they were a couple of entrepreneurs that bought a bunch of land where these two bayous came together. So, they legit were looking for a place to found a town, which, like, shit that can’t happen now, right? You can’t just, like, go wandering around in the prairie looking for places to start your own city, but that’s what these two motherfuckers did. [Kyle chuckles] And, on August 26th of 1836, they bought a bunch of land from Elizabeth E. Parrott who- a bunch of land. They paid $5,000 total but only $1,000 of it was cash, the rest was a loan. And then they’re like “How do we make this town amazing? I know, let’s try to make it the capital of Texas,” because then Texas was still its own country, the Republic of Texas, and their plan to make it the capital of Texas when it was being arranged was to name it “Houston”, after Sam Houston. Sam Houston was the… uh, he basically made the Texas Revolution happen, right? Like, Texas gained its independence from Mexico… uh, “Remember the Alamo,” blah, blah, blah. [Kyle chuckles] But what’s interesting about that, to me, is a couple of things. First, Sam Houston is like George Washington to Texas, in that, like, lots of, like, myths and “Don’t talk bad about him if you don’t want to get punched.” Like, just weird godlike sort of stuff about him. Also, he was still alive. So they’re- [chuckles] They’re like- Their plan was “Let’s name this town after this dude that everyone loves, who still exists.” And because, just like Washington, DC is named “Washington” for George Washington because there’s this, like, legendary myth of a person… that’s gotta work, right? Well, uh… so it sort of did. [Kyle chuckles] So, there were 12 people that lived in Houston in 1837, they named it Houston and said “Move the capital here, please,” and because they named it Houston and were using basically this man’s fame to accomplish that, they had 1,500 people moved there in six months.
KYLE GETZ
Wow. I’m starting a little city and I’m gonna to call it “Taylor”.
MIKE JOHNSON
[chuckles] After Taylor Swift?
KYLE GETZ
After Taylor Swift. And so we’ll all move- Or should I name it “Swift”? Which is the better city name, “Taylor” or “Swift”?
MIKE JOHNSON
I think probably “Swift”, if only because… there’s a lot of famous Taylors. Like, people might think that-
KYLE GETZ
There’s Lautner…
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
Taylor… I can’t think of literally any other Taylors, but-
MIKE JOHNSON
Okay. I was thinking like the president… Taylor, but anyway, it’s fine.
KYLE GETZ
Oh, yeah. Famous- [chuckles] Famous celebrity, President Taylor. Um, yeah, I’m gonna start a city named “Swift” and we’re all gonna move there because her tour is doin’ so good.
MIKE JOHNSON
But we gotta buy the land first so that we’re the motherfuckers that get rich off of-
KYLE GETZ
That’s true.
MIKE JOHNSON
-everybody moving to this town. Anyway, okay, so-
KYLE GETZ
Patreon.com/gayishpodcast.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. We’re gonna buy a town, everybody. [both chuckle] You can move there, it’s gonna be gay as fuck. [both chuckle] Okay, so… So they did all of this by running ads… the Telegraph and the Texas Register, especially in the city of Galveston, but also in other parts of Texas, saying, like, “Come suck Sam Houston’s dick by living in the town he’s named for”-kind of thing. [Kyle chuckles] So, let’s see… blah, blah, blah, there’s a history of enslaving people, that’s not great, in Texas’s history, and Houston’s history is not immune to that, unfortunately. Um, but, so, they were- They succeeded though. In 1837, the Texas Congress convened in Houston as the new capital of the people’s Republic of Texas. And so, that whole scheme worked. So, what I wanna- What I wanna talk about a little bit though is this John Kirby Allen guy, one of the two brothers. Probably gay. [Kyle gasps] The reason I say that is because, like a lot of history, he has the sentence in his bio, quote, “He never married,” which, that’s-
KYLE GETZ
Yeah, that’s what I was thinking. “He never married,” [Mike chuckles] that’s the sentence. Yeah. Or “Lifelong bachelor,” is always the sentence.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yep. Yeah. So, uh, his brother was married. His brother, um, there was some, like, shady shit going on with his wife’s estate, I guess, that doesn’t make a whole ton of sense – his brother Augustus – because she died and he got an inheritance and that was part of what they bought the land for Houston with. Anyway, I’m starting- I’m putting it out there in the universe that, like, one of the two main founders of Houston, one of the Allen brothers, was a homosexual because he never married.
KYLE GETZ
Interesting.
MIKE JOHNSON
Ummm… so, let’s see… Just two years later, in 1839, there was a yellow fever epidemic that killed 1 in 8 people living in Houston.
KYLE GETZ
Holy shit.
MIKE JOHNSON
And uh, they moved the capital to Austin. [both chuckle]
KYLE GETZ
Wah-wah.
MIKE JOHNSON
It was the capital of Texas for two years, and then they moved to Austin.
KYLE GETZ
I didn’t realize that.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. Tada. There you go. [Kyle chuckles] Um, yeah, that’s really all I wanted to talk about right now, like, history-wise. I just thought it was really interesting that there was a potential homosexual that started Houston.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. Yeah, did they say anything about, like, cavorting with men at the nighttime, or..?
MIKE JOHNSON
No, not that I’ve-
KYLE GETZ
And he associated with some other dude?
MIKE JOHNSON
Mmm… Well, so, they did have- There was a group of entrepreneurs from Nacogdoches that got together, and I don’t know if they were in bed together just, like, financially, or actually in bed together. [Kyle chuckles] He did convince a bunch of dudes that they needed to invest in Houston.
KYLE GETZ
Ooo.
MIKE JOHNSON
Let’s see… He did have a partner, a business partner, James Pinckney Henderson.
KYLE GETZ
[gasps] Boyfriend!
MIKE JOHNSON
Boyfriend. We could totally- We could totally start that rumor. Uh, he was married to a woman named Francis Cox and they had a bunch of kids, so…
KYLE GETZ
Oh.
MIKE JOHNSON
Maybe- Maybe- Maybe not? But who knows. Being married doesn’t make you not gay, Kyle.
KYLE GETZ
That’s true. That is true.
MIKE JOHNSON
The other things that I did want to say though, about Houston: Houston has a bunch of nicknames, and I don’t know if any of them- Like, have you ever heard it called “Bayou City”, or do you call it “Bayou City”?
KYLE GETZ
I’ve heard it called “Bayou City”. I was gonna- When you said it was by two bayous, I was gonna say “Bayou City”, but I should have.
MIKE JOHNSON
Mm. Mm. Or “Space City”?
KYLE GETZ
I don’t think I’ve heard that one. I mean, NASA’s there, so that’s cool.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah, NASA’s there, which, like… God, it’s gotta be a lot of smart people down there. Uh, “The 713”, which I assume is the area code.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
But is it like Seattle, where, like, there’s actually more than one area code but, like, that’s the OG area code that people-?
KYLE GETZ
There’s more than one area code.
MIKE JOHNSON
Like, you’re fancier if you have a 206 number?
KYLE GETZ
Oh, prob- I don’t know the implications of a 713. I know that is one of the area codes though. But Houston’s so big nowadays, there must be a million these days.
MIKE JOHNSON
And, at least according to Wikipedia, they call it “H-Town” town.
KYLE GETZ
H-Town, yeah!
MIKE JOHNSON
Which… that seems harder. It’s harder for my mouth to make those sounds than “Houston”. H-Town.
KYLE GETZ
But it sounds so cool!
MIKE JOHNSON
H-Town. No. Hate it. [Kyle chuckles] And then I’ll end with just, like, a little bit of weather history, Kyle.
KYLE GETZ
Ooh.
MIKE JOHNSON
I’m interested in your-
KYLE GETZ
Mosquitoes!
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. [chuckles] That’s not really a weather system.
KYLE GETZ
I know. Eh, it feels like it sometimes.
MIKE JOHNSON
Uh, true or false: it snows in Houston sometimes. [chuckles]
KYLE GETZ
It ha- Well, it has snowed in Katy. I remember, when I was a kid, we were doing our Christmas play and then it started snowing when we finished our last song. And so we were all, like, wearing these mittens and hats which you would never need. It was for the show. Because you would never need mittens in Houston, and it started snowing and we all ran outside and it was really exciting. And then it- Like, it’s the littlest kind of snow that melts on the ground. So it doesn’t even stick around, but yes, it has snowed there before.
MIKE JOHNSON
Now, this is really interesting to me – I think it’s interesting, anyway – from 1895 to 2018, how many times did it ever snow?
KYLE GETZ
Oh God.
MIKE JOHNSON
How many times was there measurable snowfall in those 123 years? [chuckles]
KYLE GETZ
Um, 5. [chuckles]
MIKE JOHNSON
It’s a great guess. Only 38 times. But, like, that’s just wild to me.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
Like, it snows- It snows in Seattle, like… basically every year at least once.
KYLE GETZ
Every… couple years, yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
But, uh, on February 14th and 15th, 1895, apparently Houston received 20 inches of snow, which is the largest snowfall from one storm that has ever happened.
KYLE GETZ
Wow.
MIKE JOHNSON
And I can’t even imagine… Like, in my mind, because it never snows in Houston, if it is gonna threaten to snow, the whole city goes into a fuckin’ panic and people run for the grocery stores and they close schools and shit.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
They can’t even handle flakes of snow that immediately melt, much less 20-ass inches. Ohhh my god.
KYLE GETZ
There was one time, when I was going to school in Austin, it, like, iced over and we couldn’t deal with ice. Everything shut down because, like, we didn’t have the tools to deal with icy shit. So yeah, there’s no way we’d have the tools to deal with 20 inches of snow.
MIKE JOHNSON
I guess that’s it. That’s good.
KYLE GETZ
Okay! Then I’m gonna tell you about the LGBT… kinda consensus of Houston.
MIKE JOHNSON
Great. Okay.
KYLE GETZ
Um, so, this is-
MIKE JOHNSON
This is gayta.
KYLE GETZ
This is gayta, yes. This is back to our old reliable Williams Institute, which is the Public Policy Research Institute based out of UCLA School of Law focused on sexual orientation and gender identity issues, and this is the same thing I use for… I think it was the LA show that we did. Or, what-? I don’t know. Anyway, it’s the same data that I’ve used before, but I wanted to talk about it for Houston. So, there is both the raw number of gay people – so raw, so gay – [Mike chuckles] and there is the percentage of gay people that are in Houston. So, in the top 10 list we got, like, number 1: New York. Oh, that’s where I used- I used this data for the New York- Doesn’t matter. …New York number 1, in terms of the raw number of gay people. LA’s number 2. Chicago’s number 3. It’s interesting, you mentioned the top 3 – or, the top cities – in population…
MIKE JOHNSON
Mhm. Mhm.
KYLE GETZ
…Houston is not number 4.
MIKE JOHNSON
Oh, really? [chuckles]
KYLE GETZ
It’s not number 5, it’s not even number 10. It is number 11, in terms of the number of people- of gay people.
MIKE JOHNSON
That’s really interesting.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
Where are they all instead? [chuckles]
KYLE GETZ
Well, Dallas has a higher number. So, um, New York – just for reference, New York, the number 1 city – has 700,000 LGB- I should be saying “LGBT people”. Dallas is number 6, with 211,000.
MIKE JOHNSON
Wait, Kyle, did I pick the wrong Texas City for our tour?
KYLE GETZ
Yes. [chuckles]
MIKE JOHNSON
Oh no.
KYLE GETZ
Houston is number 11, with 170,000.
MIKE JOHNSON
…Okay.
KYLE GETZ
So, Dallas is way more gay than Houston.
MIKE JOHNSON
That’s a lot of people though. That’s a lot of homosexuals.
KYLE GETZ
That is plenty of homos, I will give you that. In terms of the percentage: number 1, San Francisco; number 2, Portland; number 3 is Austin. So, Austin has 5.9% of LGBT people, based on the metro area. This is all metro areas, so it’s pretty inclusive. Um, Seattle’s number 4, LA’s number 5. Houston doesn’t even rank in the top 25 cities.
MIKE JOHNSON
Whoaaaa.
KYLE GETZ
Houston has 3.5% LGBT people.
MIKE JOHNSON
Okay. Okay. I mean, that- Okay. That tells me though that, like, there’s a pretty narrow range, right? It’s not like it’s 1%. Like, it’s- There’s just a long tail there or whatever. Like, there’s some super gay-ass cities and then, like, everybody else is kind of, like, pretty gay… [chuckles] but not-
KYLE GETZ
I don’t know. It’s- When you compare it to, like- The top 5 all has 5% or more people. Yeah, I don’t know. So, Houston doesn’t rank among the top 25, but DFW has 4% gay people. San Antonio has 4.4%.
MIKE JOHNSON
Mm!
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. Austin had 5.9% gay people. So it looks to me like Houston is actually not that gay, considering it is the 4th largest city. Like, considering how big it is, it is not as gay as it should be, I guess is what I’m saying.
MIKE JOHNSON
I wonder why.
KYLE GETZ
I wonder why. It’s because it’s conservative, it’s a lot of oil and gas companies that are there… I think it’s, like, ehh… it’s a kind of a shitty place to live. I’m from there, [chuckles] so I’m allowed to say that, I think. I don’t- I didn’t love- It’s, like, humid. I don’t know. I didn’t love living in- I never actually lived in Houston city proper, so I guess I’m just talking about my experience in the suburbs of Houston. So-
MIKE JOHNSON
You should’ve shit on Houston and pissed them off right before our show there, Kyle. [laughs]
KYLE GETZ
Come on out to our show, everybody! …I don’t know, I think it’s really conservative, especially compared to places- I mean, for sure compared to Austin, but even compared to Dallas. Like, compared to other cities, it’s just a really conservative place to be.
MIKE JOHNSON
‘Kay. I wonder if there’s also… Like, New Orleans is pretty close. Austin is pretty close. Like, there’s a- There’s this phenomenon we’ve seen before, of, like, there are some cities that become “the gay one” just, again, because we’ve decided that it’s the gay one, and that turns into a self-fulfilling prophecy.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
And it creates, like, a rainbow drain in a region. Atlanta-
KYLE GETZ
“A rainbow drain”, wow! That’s what I call my butthole.
MIKE JOHNSON
[chuckles] Just goes in there and… goes away.
KYLE GETZ
Never comes out.
MIKE JOHNSON
[chuckles] Um, Atlanta gets that sort of reputation – right? – that, like, there’s no gay people for this huge-ass radius around Atlanta.
KYLE GETZ
Huh. I hadn’t write Atlanta down on my list. We’ll have to do an episode on Atlanta, and we’ll find out what its percentage is.
MIKE JOHNSON
Oh, okay.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
Well, um, talking about numbers and whatnot: for the Patreon segment, I’m gonna talk to you about the Municipal Equality Index, which is… the Human Rights Campaign, HRC, has, like, a whole system for, like, rating how good-at-gay-shit cities are, so I was gonna- I’m gonna talk to you about that.
KYLE GETZ
Okay.
MIKE JOHNSON
…And tell you where Houston sits.
KYLE GETZ
Oooh, I’m really curious how good they are at gay shit, especially knowing that they’re a smaller percentage of gay people than I would expect given the population. I wonder how they fare in, uh, in gay equality.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. Spoiler alert! …It’s a number. [chuckles]
KYLE GETZ
[laughs] What do you want to do next? Should I tell you about a celebrity that’s from there?
MIKE JOHNSON
Ummm… no.
KYLE GETZ
Okay.
MIKE JOHNSON
I’m gonna tell you about The Wagon Wheel.
KYLE GETZ
Oh okay. I don’t know what that is.
MIKE JOHNSON
The Wagon Wheel… I wish, I wish, I wish we could have gone, Kyle.
KYLE GETZ
What’s The Wagon wheel?
MIKE JOHNSON
It was a bar that opened in 1936. So, let’s think about that. This is before World War II. This is… just- That’s the zone right after Prohibition. And it was branded as “The Wagon Wheel Nite Club”. And I have a flyer, I’ll send it to Derek, maybe, so he can do, like, social media stuff with it. But it says “The Wagon Wheel Nite Club”, “Airline Road at Little York”, “UNIQUE RENDEZVOUS featuring Female Impersonators of Distinction”. [Kyle gasps] It was a drag bar.
KYLE GETZ
Ooo.
MIKE JOHNSON
So there a- Houston had a drag queen bar in 1936.
KYLE GETZ
Woooow.
MIKE JOHNSON
They said it was- They used the branding “A Unique Rendezvous For Stay-Uppers”, which, I don’t know, has something to do with math, maybe? [Kyle laughs] But uh, “Dave Gold And his groupe of Female Impersonators of Distinction featuring MURRY PICKFORD (Male Sally Rand)”, I don’t know what that means, “MICKEY DELL ([an] Exotic Dancer) DOT WILLIAMS ([as] Modern Hulla) JOHNNY KAYE ([as] Slave of Fashion)” …that’s a problem, um, “LEE NORRE (Cyclone of Dance) JEAN LANE ([as] Strip Ala-Minskey) [and] GOLDEN DEVINE (Sweet Singer of Songs) and DEL LEROY (Houston’s Own Boy Stylist) [and] PETE VAN and his PLAY BOY BAND”. They, uh- The Houstonian ran an article on them, in 1937, that said “The Wagon Wheel Night Club, located four and [a half] miles from North Main on the Airline Road at Little York, is featuring Daisy Gold and his sensational Gay Boy revue, which is proving quite popular with night club followers. Since there are no night clubs with floor shows left in Houston, the Wagon Wheel has been playing to capacity crowds. Dave Beckerman, former manager of the club Casanova, operates this nite [club].” “Three floor shows are held nightly and a cordial invitation is extended to the public by Manager Dave Beckerman, who promises something different.” So… it’s just wild to me that, like- This keeps coming up over and over again: gay people did not spring out of the earth at Stonewall.
KYLE GETZ
Right. Right.
MIKE JOHNSON
Like, there was not just underground queer shit happening. There was overt, in-your-face queer shit happening all over the place, including Houston-fucking-Texas in 1936.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. Yeah. And you’ve also said that it also- gay shit didn’t just come from New York City.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah!
KYLE GETZ
Like, there are plenty of other places that were super gay, and it’s not just- It wasn’t just Stonewall and it wasn’t just in New York.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
…or in San Francisco. It was other places too.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yep. Yep! Yeah. So- And, Houston- Houston had all these drag queens. So, the- But that doesn’t mean it was necessarilyyyy… great.
KYLE GETZ
Okay.
MIKE JOHNSON
So, uh, there was a grand jury that was convened in 1938 [Kyle gasps] to study The Wagon Wheel.
KYLE GETZ
I didn’t know they could… summon grand juries to do that.
MIKE JOHNSON
I- Uh, May 1938, The Houston Press says “[A] grand jury will turn its attention tomorrow to the type of entertainment being presented at the Wagon Wheel Night Club.” Quote, “‘I’ll call it to the attention of the grand jury,’ Mr. McPhail said,” who is the foreman of the jury. Uh, “[This] club specializes in female impersonators who sing lewd songs and do obscene dances. ‘I’m strong for stopping that stuff,’ Mr. McPhail said.”
KYLE GETZ
Mhm.
MIKE JOHNSON
So, then, turns out, on June 10, 1938 someone lit it on fire. [Kyle gasps] Uh, “The Wagon Wheel Night Club was destroyed in a fire on the Dallas-Houston highway last night and caused damages estimated at $19,000.” It is blamed on arson. Um, and police believed that it was set by two men who were seen to run from the building 15 minutes before the blaze was discovered. And then all of those drag queens that were playing there started appearing at other clubs in other towns, Corpus Christi in particular apparently, like, got a bunch of those drag queens, because a lot of the same names appear in the flyers for these other places. East Liverpool, Ohio, one of them ended up there. But they just, like, scattered to the winds and, like, I don’t know, maybe that’s why Houston’s not a gay town.
KYLE GETZ
Huh.
MIKE JOHNSON
Maybe, like- You know. I don’t know how long it takes to recover from that kind of a kind of a… that kind of a incident, but yeah. Like, there’s a narrative where their happy gay drag queen club got burnt to the ground so they all scattered to the winds and made other cities gayer instead.
KYLE GETZ
Mm. There’s also this kind of thing that it seems like it’s a similar thing to what happens today, is someone makes this big public show of investigating or putting gay people on trial and that then riles up the base of some group, and then they do the horrible shitty thing that is- that was- You know, it just kinda riles up that group, and that’s what caused them to care about this place and burn it down.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. And then how do you- How do you, like, prove? …It’s like January 6th and the riot at the Capitol, right? Like, when Donald Trump is like “You gotta show up and you gotta fight like hell,” and then a bunch of people go there and, like, break all of the glass and try to kill a police officer… is he responsible for that? Right?
KYLE GETZ
Yeah…
MIKE JOHNSON
Like, is a bunch of- Is this foreman – this investigator – who’s like “Grand jury, we gotta run these sickos out of town,” and then they burn their club down… is that his fault? I- Maybe. I don’t know. It’s hard- And the same thing is happening with trans people now, right?
KYLE GETZ
Yeah, exactly. That’s exactly what I was thinking, yeah. What is the- And, I mean, I guess, nowadays, I do blame it on the politicians that are pushing this narrative. So yeah, I guess they are at fault if they say that- Or, that- Putting together a grand jury for this club sounds like that- what we would call today “just asking questions”. [chuckles]
MIKE JOHNSON
Right. Right.
KYLE GETZ
You know?
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
Like “Oh, no, we were just investigating to see if there was any wrongdoing.” That seems like “Well, we were just asking the question.”
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. Yep, yep. Uh, the last thing that I wanted to tell you about this, this whole thing, is Houston… fined this girl named Madge Morris for walking down the street dressed in “man’s garb”.
KYLE GETZ
Oohh.
MIKE JOHNSON
She pled guilty and, quote, “Policemen Bass and Spradley arrested her Sunday night in the Fourth ward. The officers noticed a rather [quote] ‘dudish young fellow,’” [Kyle chuckles] “they told the judge, sauntering down a street, and when ‘he’ was asked to lift ‘his’ hat a bunch of hair revealed that ‘he’ was a woman. She told the officers that she had been attired in the garb but a ‘few minutes,’ when arrested,” and they fined her $12.45, which, this was in 1912, which is about $300 today.
KYLE GETZ
Wow. You always hear about the opposite, like men wearing women’s clothes. Like, you know, I imagine drag queens… but the opposite happened, that’s interesting.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yep. Yep. Anyway, that’s just some- That’s some gay-ass shit. I just- The Wagon Wheel sounds like it was amazing.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah!
MIKE JOHNSON
Like, there’s all of these pictures of these drag queens. If you wanna see what drag queens from the ‘30s look like, there’s this flyer. Like I said, I just sent it to Derek. And um, they- It sounds like what drag queens do today. Like, they were singin’ songs, and tellin’ jokes, and being nasty. [Kyle chuckles] And, um, I wish, I wish I could just, like, go one night when it was in its heyday and see, you know, what’s the same and what’s changed.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah, that’d be interesting. Huh. That’s cool that existed.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. …Sorry it got burned down. [chuckles]
KYLE GETZ
Speaking of… things that are fun and exist, I guess…
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah, sure. Celebrities! Are you gonna talk about Beyoncé?
KYLE GETZ
[chuckles] …Yeah. [laughs]
MIKE JOHNSON
Are you really? [laughs]
KYLE GETZ
Yeah!
MIKE JOHNSON
Great. I was like “What gay-ass celebrities do I know are from Houston?” and…
KYLE GETZ
Yep!
MIKE JOHNSON
Okay, great.
KYLE GETZ
Beyoncé said, in the song Run the World (Girls)…
MIKE JOHNSON
Girls!
KYLE GETZ
Girls! …“Boy, this beat is crazy. This is how they made me. Houston, Texas, baby.” She, uh, is- often mentions Houston or the Third Ward in her songs. She reminds us that she is from Houston and she is a gay-ass celebrity.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. Well, she’s not gay-ass, but gay-asses love her.
KYLE GETZ
Gay-asses love her. So many asses that are so gay love her. I read about her Renaissance tour in an article on Pitchfork. And this is- You know, this and Taylor Swift are, like, the biggest tours right now. These tickets… Gays were waiting, you know, the second the tickets came out, to buy these tickets. And I see even more gays, I think, for Beyoncé, like, putting together outfits and wearing, like, you know, black and sparkly shit to her concert. Um, do you s- You’re shaking your head. Do you see this as well? People-
MIKE JOHNSON
Oh yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think maybe the outfits are my favorite.
KYLE GETZ
Mm.
MIKE JOHNSON
Like, people go all fuckin’ out.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
And I just- I love me some good people watching.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah, absolutely. Um, Pitchfork says “Her vehement demand for joy as an intervention was on full display,” about the concert, which, I think it’s referencing the fact that, these days, and especially for LGBT people – maybe that’s my own view – there’s a lot of, like, hardship and rough stuff going out in the world, and so it is injecting this sense of joy and power into the world, which I think is great. Her- Have you seen this? Her 11-year-old daughter, Blue Ivy, dances beside her in the song MY POWER, and BLACK PARADE.
MIKE JOHNSON
No, but that sounds adorable as fuck.
KYLE GETZ
She’s… okay at dancing. [laughs]
MIKE JOHNSON
Oh, great. [chuckles]
KYLE GETZ
I mean, better dancer than me, so I’ll give her that.
MIKE JOHNSON
Is she better than Ariana Grande, who cannot dance?
KYLE GETZ
Uh, you know, I think she could take Ariana Grande. [chuckles]
MIKE JOHNSON
Okay.
KYLE GETZ
I love your theory that Ariana Grande can’t dan- What does she- Just kinda wiggles her hands around a little bit?
MIKE JOHNSON
It’s not a theory, I have solid evidence that I’m happy to share [Kyle chuckles] with anyone who wants to go down this rabbit hole with me.
KYLE GETZ
Is it the video Rain On Me?
MIKE JOHNSON
Yes!
KYLE GETZ
[chuckles] She can jump.
MIKE JOHNSON
Well, she does a good job of jumping to the beat of the music, that’s true.
KYLE GETZ
That’s- I mean, to be fair, that’s how I dance… you know?
MIKE JOHNSON
It’s a good- It’s a good one.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
It’s a good “I don’t know what to do with my body, so I’m just gonna jump up and down.” [chuckles]
KYLE GETZ
I’d rather be drunk, but at least I’m alive.
MIKE JOHNSON
Right.
KYLE GETZ
Um, in her Renaissance tour, dancers and performers include people who are nonbinary, trans, plus-size and, apparently, in the case of a trumpeter for her famous all-woman band… pregnant. [Mike gasps softly] So it sounds like she’s doing a good job of incorporating a variety of different kinds of people in her… you know, in the casting and the performance of her shows. This Pitchfork article talked about how she let voguers vogue. So, people like Darius Hickman, Carlos Basquiat, and Honey Balenciaga, allowed them to express the beauty of voguing, apparently, during the show, which I did not realize that they did that during the show, which is awesome.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Plus, it’s- Like, it’s less exploitative because she’s not White like Madonna was when she stole voguing. [chuckles]
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah, yeah. Totally. And, apparently, the day before the show that this Pitchfork writer went to, O’Shea Sibley was murdered, and that was the murder that took place because O’Shea was dancing to Beyoncé.
MIKE JOHNSON
At the gas station, yeah.
KYLE GETZ
And, apparently- Uh, yeah, at the gas station. So that was kind of a defining moment that then made the Renaissance show, I think, all the more meaningful, that happened the day after.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. Yeah. But something I wanted to talk about is: I feel like Taylor Swift gets so much of the credit for having the biggest tour of the… of the moment. I always see Taylor Swift come up as, like, “This is the biggest tour, this is who’s hot right now,” the Eras Tour, blah, blah, blah… and I don’t see Beyoncé show up as much.
MIKE JOHNSON
Hm. Hm.
KYLE GETZ
Do you feel the same way about their tours?
MIKE JOHNSON
Yes, I do. And I also think… Um, it’s weird to me, like, who has the biggest concerts. Like, that’s… Don’t concert sell out all the time, and then it’s really just a question of venue? Like, I- I don’t know. It’s weird.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah, we’ve sold out shows too.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah, exactly. Exactly. [Kyle laughs] It’s just- It’s just weird, to me.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
And, like, when she was in Seattle recently she played whatever… whatever arena it was… the football field. What’s our football field called now? “Lumen”?
KYLE GETZ
“Lumen”. Are you talking about Beyoncé, or Taylor Swift?
MIKE JOHNSON
Taylor Swift.
KYLE GETZ
Mm.
MIKE JOHNSON
And, like, “Oh, it’s the biggest concert that’s ever happened,” 80-sumn-thousand people or whatever the fuck. And then, like, the next week it was like “But Ed Sheeran beat her by like four people,” or whatever.
KYLE GETZ
Oh, did he really?
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. Yeah, there was an article about that. I’m like “BFD. Why are we-” Let’s work on the climate, you know?
KYLE GETZ
[laughs] Oh, you mean Climate Pledge Arena, that we have here in Seattle?
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
That’s going to fix the climate, right?
MIKE JOHNSON
Yep. Yep. Thanks, Jeff Bezos, for doing almost nothing. [chuckles]
KYLE GETZ
For doing nothing and naming a stadium the dumbest name that has ever been named. We have a stadium called “Climate Pledge Arena” and it is about Amazon’s pledge to help fix the climate or whatever. I don’t know what they’re actually doing, but…
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah, yeah. I still call it “Key Arena”.
KYLE GETZ
I… I don’t know what to- I just call them those two places. Um, I had to go to a baseball game not too long ago. I had to look up, like, “Where does baseball happen?” [Mike chuckles] so that I could go to the right stadium. Um, why don’t you- You don’t care about concerts, then? You don’t care about how big concerts are, or..?
MIKE JOHNSON
I mean… Pfft. [Kyle laughs] No, I don’t care, I gue- I guess I don’t care. Like, first of all, if you were at anywhere with 80,000 people, you probably not having fun. Like…
KYLE GETZ
[chuckles] What do you mean?
MIKE JOHNSON
You’re gonna be- You’re gonna be so far away, or you’re gonna be crushed to death. I hate it. I hate- The crowds of that size terrify me.
KYLE GETZ
You don’t- Do you hate concerts? Do you not like going to concerts.
MIKE JOHNSON
I like going to concerts if I’m guaranteed to have a chair and nobody hassles me about the fact that I am gonna stand there with no look on my face at all and enjoy the music that’s happening. I’m not gonna scream, I’m not going to dance, I’m not gonna sing along. I’m going to placidly absorb the experience. And sometimes I’ve gone to concerts with people and they’re like “I think Mike hated it,” and I was like “No, it was fuckin’ amazing!” I just- This is how I- This is how I interact with this kind of a thing. And so I want to have a seat where, like, I can actually see them, study them, hear them well because it, like… it’s not making me deaf but I can still get all of the nuance of all of the music. And it’s just so hard to do. Like, major big concert venues are just this intense… I don’t know. It’s hard for me to, like, thoroughly enjoy that the way that I want to.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. Man, I would say one of the worst things that you can do is, like, tell the person, like, “You look like you’re having a miserable time.”
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
Like, because if it’s true, then pointing it out is not helpful, it’s just gonna make them more self-conscious about the fact that they’re… it’s very visible. And if it’s not true, then you’re saying basically, like, “You look like shit.” Like, there’s no good out- There’s no good outcome of saying that to someone.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yep. Yep. I agree.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. So, I don’t know, I think that… I am reminded of Adele saying “What does Beyoncé have to do to get Album of the Year?”
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah…
KYLE GETZ
And I think Beyoncé just always kinda gets second place in things, and it’s hard to explain that with anything other than racism, but I don’t… I don’t know. But yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
KYLE GETZ
I think her concert is as big- I don’t know. Surely there’s actual numbers that could tell me what’s true or not, but her concert, at least among the gays, seems to be an even bigger deal.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. And, again, if you fill every single seat in the biggest place that exists in a city…
KYLE GETZ
…You’re a rock star.
MIKE JOHNSON
Great, good work, you know?
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. [chuckles]
MIKE JOHNSON
I know.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
What- Do you care about concert size?
KYLE GETZ
No. I mean, it’s- I am- would be less likely to- If everyone’s seeking out some kind of concert like this, I’d be less likely to go. Like, I’m not gonna dole out hundreds and hundreds of dollars to go to a concert. So, I think- I would be more likely- The one time I did try to get, like, the day the tickets came out, refresh the page and try to get tickets, was to Kesha a while ago and I didn’t- I didn’t get the tickets. So, that was the one time I tried. Her, or I might, like- Yeah, so, maybe – as I’m talking myself into – maybe for certain people I would care enough about them, but I don’t care enough about Beyoncé or Taylor Swift to try to, you know, dole out 100s of dollars. I might care about Kesha enough, I might care about Tove Lo enough, um, I might care- I’ve gone to a Britney concert but it was a little bit more reasonable back in- [like an old-timer] back in my day…
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
…um, it wasn’t as- It wasn’t this insane. So, I don’t know.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah, it is wild to me how expensive shit is. Like, I just-
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
Like, don’t you have- Don’t you have, like, a car payment, or, like, circuit parties to pay for? [both laugh]
KYLE GETZ
Don’t you have three-day circuit parties that you gotta pay for? Yeah. What else do you have?
MIKE JOHNSON
Well, I wanted to talk to you about that lesbian mayor.
KYLE GETZ
Okay!
MIKE JOHNSON
Houston had a lesbian mayor, Kyle.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah!
MIKE JOHNSON
Do you remember her name?
KYLE GETZ
Fuck. Anne… somethin’.
MIKE JOHNSON
Annise Parker.
KYLE GETZ
Annise- [chuckles] I got the first two letters of her name right.
MIKE JOHNSON
You did so good. I’m so proud of you.
KYLE GETZ
Can I tell you what I remember of this?
MIKE JOHNSON
Yes. I want you to tell me what you remember.
KYLE GETZ
She got elected and my dad said that he thought that she tricked people into voting for her and then came out after that. So he was a little bit- He was critical of the fact that she, like, after elected, talked about being a lesbian. My point back to him was “If she had talked about being a lesbian during the course of the campaign, you would have criticized her for talking about being gay and ‘Why is that relevant to being an elected official?’” blah, blah. Like, there’s no good option for her to- um, for her election. And, plus, she was out and got elected a second time, so it clearly- Clearly people liked her enough. So, I think some of my dad’s inherent biases against gay people kind of shined through when her election happened.
MIKE JOHNSON
Well, so, there’s some problems there with your dad’s [chuckles] perception, in that she was, at the time- She did not come out after the election; she was out.
KYLE GETZ
Right.
MIKE JOHNSON
Like, The New York Times- The morning after the election there was a runoff. Nobody got the majority of the votes needed on actual election day, in 2009. It went to a special election on December 11th and, uh, The New York Times said “Houston Is Largest City to Elect Openly Gay Mayor”. Like, so, the idea that she was, like, on the DL until after the election is just- it’s incorrect. And, even if- Even if! …Even if she had “tricked” everybody into not knowing she was a lesbian somehow, she was reelected in 2011, she was reelected in 2013. Like, that’s a “Fool you thrice, shame on your mom,” or something.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. [chuckles] Exactly. [Mike chuckles] Shame on God, or something.
MIKE JOHNSON
Um, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, she was- Um, she and her wife, Kathy Hubbard, have been together since 1990. Um, they got married in 2014, so maybe because she wasn’t married that’s- Uh, anyway, they have a couple of adopted children and lives in East Montrose, which, that’s where the gays are.
KYLE GETZ
Mhm.
MIKE JOHNSON
But uh, in June of 2020, Queerty named her among the 50 heroes “leading the nation toward equality, acceptance, and dignity for all people.”
KYLE GETZ
Oh, no way.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. And I know that you lived in Seattle when all of this was going down, because she was elected in 2009 and you already lived here.
KYLE GETZ
Yep.
MIKE JOHNSON
But uh, I was wondering if you remember the crazy shit that went down with the Houston Equal Rights Ordinance.
KYLE GETZ
Mm-mm.
MIKE JOHNSON
Okay, so, in 2014, she wrote a, um… ordinance called the “Houston Equal Rights Ordinance” and it, among other things, guaranteed that there would be no discrimination against people in housing and occupation, for- in the city of Houston, based on sexual orientation or gender identity.
KYLE GETZ
And, as a reminder to people, that is needed because we don’t have nationwide protection against these kinds of things, which is just horrifying and so backwards, but that’s why individual states or cities need to do this kind of shit.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yep, absolutely. Well, so- So she wrote this HERO ordinance, the Houston Equal Rights Ordinance, and it passed the Houston City Council 11-6.
KYLE GETZ
I do remember this!
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah?
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. There was, like, a lot of discussion about, like, trans women in bathrooms that people were, like, fearmongering.
MIKE JOHNSON
HERO became known to some people as “the bathroom law” because the ordinance, in part, protected, quote, “transgender residents ability to use the restroom consistent with their gender expression, regardless of their biological sex.” Now, I- I mean, this is almost 10 years ago and, like, the landscape has changed so dramatically and quickly in the space of trans rights. I think, even though 2014 doesn’t feel like that long ago, this was early. This was, like, an early example. So, uh, then people were mad – big mad – and started this opposition thing, and they started gathering signatures to add a ballot measure to the November of 2014 ballot for that election to repeal the ordinance. Uh, city law required 17,296 valid signatures from registered Houston voters for a veto referendum petition, basically forcing it onto the ballot. Opponents of HERO presented about 50,000 signatures to the Houston city secretary’s office on the 3rd of July, 2014. So, then, this is- I don’t know. I don’t know how to feel about this, Kyle. The city then – again, with this lesbian mayor whose bill it was that they were trying to veto – looked at the signatures and said “No, there’s not enough valid signatures.” So, they needed 17,000, they turned in 50,000, and they still found technical problems, petition sheets that were not signed by the signature gatherer responsible for them, which invalidated the entire sheet. Um, they really, like, made sure that every i was dotted and every t was crossed and, if it wasn’t, they threw those signatures out. And so then the city announced that they were 2,000 signatures short, it would not appear on the ballot.
KYLE GETZ
That’s great.
MIKE JOHNSON
And that’s, like… Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
What? What’s wrong with that?
MIKE JOHNSON
I’m- I’m- I’m torn. Like, I guess… This is- First, congratulations. This is what Republicans would do, so, like, I’m really-
KYLE GETZ
For sure.
MIKE JOHNSON
I’m really happy that, like, we’re- we’re leveraging some of the horseshit to win [Kyle chuckles] – like, playing to win, you know – because Democrats usually don’t do that. But also, I kind of fundamentally believe in democracy. And if these signatures were being thrown out on technicalities and not, like, wholesale being invented… Like, if there really were 50,000 people that thought that they were signing this thing, and they are actual registered voters, and their signatures weren’t being counted not because of anything wrong with them or their signature but because we were being, like, extra with the compliance stuff… I’m against that. Like, I-
KYLE GETZ
No you’re not!
MIKE JOHNSON
That makes me feel icky.
KYLE GETZ
No you’re not. When it was in Florida and they were doing, like, the drag queen show that Mama Ashley Rose did- What is it called, “malicious compliance” or something?
MIKE JOHNSON
Malicious compliance, sure. Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
This is one of those malicious compliance kinda things. Like “You didn’t follow all the rules to the T, and so we’re gonna get this kicked out however we can.” I love it.
MIKE JOHNSON
Mm. Well, um, so a bunch of pastors then got together and said that this was clearly retribution against Christian people and-
KYLE GETZ
Oh, God, Christians always have to step in front of things that aren’t being hurled at them and be like “This is this is an a- This is attacking me and my rights!” Like, no one was talking about you! No one cares about you.
MIKE JOHNSON
Well, they filed a civil rights lawsuit against Mayor Parker and the Houston city attorney and, basically, the judge decided on April 17th that the opponents of the ordinance had not gathered enough valid signatures. Uh, so then that went to the Texas Supreme Court and the court granted the petition and ruled that the Houston City Council should have honored the city secretary’s initial signature count and must either repeal the ordinance or include it on the ballot. They included it on the ballot and, by a margin of 61-39 it was rejected and the Houston Equal Rights Ordinance was overturned.
KYLE GETZ
Mm…
MIKE JOHNSON
Ultimately, Mayor Parker left office and focused instead on working for nonprofit organizations in Houston. She became senior vice president and chief strategy officer for a community development nonprofit named BakerRipley. Uh, she is CEO and president of the LGBTQ+ Victory Fund and Leadership Institute, she’s a professor at the Doerr Institute for New Leaders at Rice, and is on the advisory board of the Houston Zoo, the Montrose Counseling Center… She just is, like, just a rockstar private citizen now, doing all kinds of advocacy work and, um, still very active in the space of gay rights. But I can’t help but think that, like, this whole horseshit really just, like, dampened her spirit and she’s like “Well, fine. Fuck being mayor, then. I’m gonna go be awesome where I don’t have to deal with dickbag fuckface assholes getting in my way.”
KYLE GETZ
[chuckles] Are we including Houston citizens as a nominee for dickbag fuckface assholes?
MIKE JOHNSON
Mmmmm… Nah.
KYLE GETZ
Okay, okay. Maybe not right before our tour. [chuckles]
MIKE JOHNSON
I will hold judgment to after we go.
KYLE GETZ
Okay, yeah. We’ll go and see for ourselves.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. If Alexis and his giant dick aren’t still at Tony’s Corner Pocket, then yes, immediately shut it down.
KYLE GETZ
Have you talked about him enough that people know who that is, who you’re referring to? [chuckles]
MIKE JOHNSON
Well, somebody- Like, one of our listeners on Discord sent me pictures of him. So, like, yes, I have.
KYLE GETZ
Oh, okay. Okay, gotcha. Man, she’s one of those people that makes me feel like I’m just such a terrible person for not doing anything. I’m not- I’m not on the board of anything. I’m not helping any counseling center, I’m not doing- I don’t know.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
Oh well.
MIKE JOHNSON
You’re doing this gay-ass podcast though.
KYLE GETZ
That’s true. Yeah! Yeah! That’s pretty gay.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yep. Anyway, Houston had a lesbian mayor and reelected her, and that says, to me, maybe… good.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
But then they did bad things for her trans bathroom bill.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
So, maybe bad. I don’t know. The jury is out, Kyle.
KYLE GETZ
Mixed reviews so far.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
I’m gonna tell you about the murder of Paul Broussard.
MIKE JOHNSON
Okay.
KYLE GETZ
So, this is 1991…
MIKE JOHNSON
Okay.
KYLE GETZ
And Paul Broussard was- Uh, it was 2 AM, Paul Broussard was in a parking lot with two friends in Montrose, which, as you mentioned, is the gay neighborhood in Houston. And, uh, he was allegedly intoxicated. You know, presumably this was, like, after a night out. Ten people, ages ranged 15-22, who were also allegedly intoxicated on both alcohol and on drugs-
MIKE JOHNSON
So, definitely intoxicated.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah, yeah. Including weed and LSD. They- There were these ten friends that apparently tried to go out in Montrose and were refused entry to a couple clubs. But they were driving in their car, they pulled into the parking lot, asked Paul and his two friends for directions, and then got out and attacked Paul and his friends.
MIKE JOHNSON
Oh God.
KYLE GETZ
Including with fists, with steel-toed boots, with bear claws, and one of them had a small pocketknife.
MIKE JOHNSON
Wait, like those, like, doughnut pastry things? Bear claws?
KYLE GETZ
Threw doughnuts right at his face. [Mike chuckles] No.
MIKE JOHNSON
Sorry. He died, I shouldn’t make light of it.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. Yeah, eh. Yeah, that’s what we do on this podcast.
MIKE JOHNSON
It was over 30 years ago, so, you know.
KYLE GETZ
We’ve had some time. Um-
MIKE JOHNSON
It’s not too soon. [chuckles]
KYLE GETZ
Paul’s two friends got away but Paul was beat up. He was nearly unconscious. The ten friends then drove away. EMS arrived on the scene in the morning. Paul- Apparently they were going to go to a hospital that was about 8 minutes away but Paul asked to go to a different hospital and they agreed, so it turned into a 40 minute ambulance ride, which, like… I don’t know why they- It’s confusing as to why they wouldn’t have, based on the injury, said “No, you’re going to the closest hospital.”
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah, go to the close one. Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
Um, and then, according to the Wikipedia page, it said, quote, “It was another hour before a doctor could be located who was willing to address Broussard’s wounds.”
MIKE JOHNSON
…Because HIV?
KYLE GETZ
That’s the implication here, is that, because of [Mike groans] HIV/AIDS, that to work on a gay patient… You know, doc- They had to find a doctor that was willing to do that. Paul later died of internal injuries.
MIKE JOHNSON
Oh God.
KYLE GETZ
So then, a Houston gay rights advocate, Ray Hill, apparently started looking into this and figured out that police were not investigating this at all.
MIKE JOHNSON
Okay.
KYLE GETZ
So he then organized. He talked to the media, he planned the largest – according to Wikipedia – the largest gay rights protest in the city’s history.
MIKE JOHNSON
Hm!
KYLE GETZ
Eventually, because of his efforts, all ten of the friends were arrested. All ten plea bargained, and this never went to trial because there were plea bargains for all of them.
MIKE JOHNSON
Jesus.
KYLE GETZ
Right?
MIKE JOHNSON
Jesus.
KYLE GETZ
Some got probation, others got 15- Anywhere- For others, they got anywhere from 15-45 years in prison, depending on who it was. The guy with a knife, I think, got some of the heaviest prison time. A filmmaker, Alison Armstrong, was doing a different documentary for other reasons and then just started looking into this case. Um, so the film that she released was called “The Guy with the Knife”. What she uncovered is that there is a pattern of delaying responding to the gay community in Montrose by Houston first responders. Apparently, at the time, there was a saying that “If you get hurt in Montrose, get your car and drive to someplace else and then call 911.”
MIKE JOHNSON
Woooow. Okay.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
That’s wild.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. So, eventually- I forget. Maybe because of this film, a medical examiner revised Paul’s cause of death to include “a delay in treatment”.
MIKE JOHNSON
Oh, wow. Okay.
KYLE GETZ
So that’s at least good that it was added as a reason for his death. But yeah, that’s the murder of Paul Broussard. Apparently, you know, presumably because it’s a gay city the first responders wouldn’t respond to gay people and doctors might not work on people because of their fear of HIV/AIDS.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. Yeah. And we’ve- We’ve- We’ve seen before, like, other examples of the cops don’t investigate or they just kind of, like, half-ass investigate something because “No big loss, it’s just a gay.”
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
Um… And that’s- That’s really- That’s really shitty. Like, thinking about that uh… We talked about those- that murder in Australia, the guy that got pushed off the cliff.
KYLE GETZ
Oh yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
And the police were just, like, you know, half-ass paying attention.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. It’s someone that they have to deem “worthy” enough or something. Like, I think you see- If you see people as less than equal humans, you care less about their lives, which is a horrifying idea that police wouldn’t care about everyone equally, but they’re humans that have biases and-
MIKE JOHNSON
And I imagine, like, a lot of gayborhoods have had similar dynamics. Just- That’s how history goes. But also, that has to become- Like, that’s by reputation or whatever.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
Neighborhoods of color, just because they’re visually different, also get different levels of, you know, service from their local governments because of this effect. It’s just horrible.
KYLE GETZ
Yep. Absolutely. Yep, absolutely.
MIKE JOHNSON
Well great, I feel like we just shit on Houston for like an hour and a half, Kyle.
KYLE GETZ
Um… Houston is a strong, vibrant, humid city that- [both chuckle] that is- would love to be your home, if you’re considering living there. Um…
MIKE JOHNSON
I did read that, by some measures, Houston is the most racially diverse city in the country.
KYLE GETZ
Oh, no way.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
I didn’t read that. Um, they got the Texans, which… go, football. So excited about that. They got the Rockets; they’re a little bit past their heyday, but who am I to judge? Um, you know, there is-
MIKE JOHNSON
Yay, sportsing.
KYLE GETZ
Yeaaah. I don’t know what else to say about Houston. No, Houston is a big city… [both chuckle] and that’s what I wanted to say about it.
MIKE JOHNSON
And we’re going there. Buy your tickets.
KYLE GETZ
[chuckles] Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
Uh, did we do it? We talked about Houston?
KYLE GETZ
We talked about Houston a bunch.
MIKE JOHNSON
Okay. Should we take a break?
KYLE GETZ
Yeah, let’s take a break!
MIKE JOHNSON
[chuckles] Let’s take a break.
KYLE GETZ
H-Town!
MIKE JOHNSON
Ew. [Kyle chuckles]
[Break music plays, sung by MIKE JOHNSON]
This is the part where Mike and Kyle take a break!
MIKE JOHNSON
So, are we back?
KYLE GETZ
We’re back!
MIKE JOHNSON
We’re back!
KYLE GETZ
We’re gonna do our Gayest & Straightest.
MIKE JOHNSON
We’re Gonna do our Gayest & Straightest but, first… Hey, you sons of bitches…
KYLE GETZ
Hey…
MIKE JOHNSON
First, you pissed me off so bad I’m cancelling San Francisco.
KYLE GETZ
[gasps] Aww.
MIKE JOHNSON
Um, fuck it. We’re not gonna do it.
KYLE GETZ
Oh.
MIKE JOHNSON
That’s not true.
KYLE GETZ
Well, no, it is true, but… [chuckles]
MIKE JOHNSON
It is true. We’re not gonna go to San Francisco this year, we’ll figure it out for next year. Uh, shit’s just too hard.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. Yeah, sorry about San Francisco. We haven’t been able to- We’ve been trying, and haven’t been able to find a time that worked for the rescheduling, so we apologize to everyone. You were refunded, so you should already have your money back but, um, yeah, hopefully we’ll be able to make it out next year.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yep. Yep. Now, the only way you can make it up to me is to come to the Houston show. [Kyle chuckles] Buy your tickets. Sunday, October 15 – so in less than two weeks – at KIKI, in Montrose, at noon. Go to gayishpodcast.com/live and get your tickets, you assholes.
KYLE GETZ
Please. [Mike chuckles] …Contact Info?
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah, alright. Our website’s gayishpodcast.com.
KYLE GETZ
Our social media is @gayishpodcast, or you can see all of our contact info, and our Discord server, or our Facebook group at gayishpodcast.com/contact.
MIKE JOHNSON
Our hotline, you can send us text messages or leave us voicemails, is 5855-Gayish. That’s 585-542-9474. Standard rates apply.
KYLE GETZ
Our email is gayishpodcast@gmail.com.
MIKE JOHNSON
And our physical mailing address, for Derek’s birthday presents, [Kyle chuckles] is Post Office Box 19882 Seattle, Washington 98109.
KYLE GETZ
Gayest & Straightest?
MIKE JOHNSON
Okay, let’s do our Gayest & Straightest, and I’m happy to go first.
KYLE GETZ
Okay.
MIKE JOHNSON
So, the gayest thing about me this week is: I was on a phone call- a zoom meeting, a meeting at work with my boss’s boss’s boss…
KYLE GETZ
Wow.
MIKE JOHNSON
…and that’s when I realized that, over my right shoulder, in the camera was a gigantic crocheted penis. [both laugh]
KYLE GETZ
Yeeees!
MIKE JOHNSON
I think it was blurred enough… I don’t think anybody saw it or got caught, but I definitely had the, like… put it down.
KYLE GETZ
Did you do that surreptitiously enough that you don’t think they saw?
MIKE JOHNSON
I- I clicked- I clicked the, um- I turned the camera off… [chuckles]
KYLE GETZ
Ohhh.
MIKE JOHNSON
…and then moved it. Yeah. That was amazing. Thanks again for those, Rudy, they’re fantastic.
KYLE GETZ
Thanks, Rudy.
MIKE JOHNSON
Uh, and then the straightest thing about me this week is: in the hour-and-15-minute-long Lyft ride from Boston Logan Airport out here to the goddamn suburbs for work in Burlington I got a car guy was my Lyft driver.
KYLE GETZ
Oh no.
MIKE JOHNSON
He wanted to talk about that car on the road, and he wanted to talk about this car, and then he wanted to talk about the noise that his brakes were making, and then he wanted to ask me all about my Jeep. It was just like… Oh my god, car shit is so straight.
KYLE GETZ
[chuckles] 100%. That’s a lot- Also, that’s a lot of talking to have to deal with for- with your Lyft driver.
MIKE JOHNSON
Oh my god. …Oh my god. Like, you know me, I’ll talk to a Lyft driver.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
Like, especially if they, like, you know, want to do the talking first. That’s- You know, I’ll manage it, I’ll handle it, but that doesn’t mean I like it.
KYLE GETZ
Mhm. Mhm, mhm.
MIKE JOHNSON
[chuckles] I would definitely have preferred to just, like- “I’m reading about Houston’s lesbian mayor, sir. I’m getting ready for the show.” [Kyle chuckles] “I need you to shut up.”
KYLE GETZ
[both chuckle] “Don’t care about the squeaking noise your brakes are making.”
MIKE JOHNSON
Yep. Yep. How ‘bout you?
KYLE GETZ
My gayest is: you and I went out and then, after we went to a bar, I went to another bar alone. [Mike gasps] I went to CC’s and had a couple drinks on my own.
MIKE JOHNSON
I’m proud of you!
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. It was stressful and I sat at the bar, had drinks, someone came up and talked to me a little bit, and, uh, so I talked to another human being [chuckles] not on my doing but on their doing.
MIKE JOHNSON
Wow, Kyle.
KYLE GETZ
Um, and so yeah, I felt… I felt good about myself, that I took that risk and went to a bar alone.
MIKE JOHNSON
That’s really great.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
Like, I- We’ve talked about it before. I went through this period of, like, intentionally forcing myself to do that for personal growth reasons or whatever, and it is hard.
KYLE GETZ
It’s really hard.
MIKE JOHNSON
That is not an easy thing to do and, like, so that’s awesome.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. Yeah! Um, my straightest is you and I doin’ a double high five. I think- Why- Was it because- [Mike chuckles] Was it celebrating- I have a new job.
MIKE JOHNSON
You have a new job, hooray! I didn’t know if you were gonna talk about it or not. Congrats.
KYLE GETZ
Oh, yeah. Yeah! Thanks. Yeah. I need to sign the paperwork, but I’m finally- After a long, long time, I have a new job. I think we were high fiving over my new job, so, uh, that’s my straightest.
MIKE JOHNSON
Seems as good of a reason as any to double high five.
KYLE GETZ
Yep, exactly. And I think you said- After we did, you said “Straightest,” [chuckles] so I wrote it down.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. Yeah. Uh, we have a listener’s Gayest & Straightest. Like I’ve said before, y’all: if you leave us a voicemail with your Gayest & Straightest, it’s probably gonna get played. Uh, this one’s from [in a Scottish accent] Paul Donovan. [both chuckle] I just fucked that up. My mouth is so tired. Paul Donovan.
PAUL DONOVAN [voicemail]
Hey Mike, Hey Kyle, it’s Paul Donovan from the UK, calling about the recent episode on Kylie Minogue and the mentions of Neighbours, which are triggering for any Gen X Brit. This show was originally a daytime soap opera and the BBC was forced to put on an evening broadcast because so many teenagers were bunking off school to watch the lunchtime showing. And it triggered for me a straightest and a gayest. Uh, the straightest thing was that it wasn’t until I listened to the podcast that I realized that Kylie sang Padam Padam; I thought it was the guy who did Gangnam Style. My gayest was: as soon as you started talking about the Neighbours bit, I immediately remembered the skinny dipping scene involving Guy Pearce and Jason Donovan, something deeply etched in my memory as part of my gay awakening. Thanks for everything you do, guys. Cheers.
KYLE GETZ
And… [chuckles] you did not think Padam Padam was Gangnam Style guy. That’s- [both chuckle] That’s hilarious.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeaah. I actually would- One of my fears about skinny dipping is that somebody would take the clothes away. So, like, yeah.
KYLE GETZ
Ohh. Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
Uh, okay, that’s it?
KYLE GETZ
That’s it! I think so.
MIKE JOHNSON
Thanks to everyone in Houston that doesn’t suck.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah! Thanks to all the LGBT Houstonians. While you are a smaller percentage than other cities, you are a mighty… group and we salute you… on this day.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeaaah!
KYLE GETZ
I don’t know. Um-
MIKE JOHNSON
Come to the show! Come to the show in Houston in your town, y’all. And uh, we’re gonna be talking about- Like, our actual topic is, like, a secret as always, because that’s live show tradition, but we’re working together with the people that put on GLUE – that’s Gear, Leather, Uniform, and Etc. – and they have GLUE Weekend the weekend after we’re there. So, we’re sort of kicking it off in in a way. And so, come find out which of those letters we’re gonna talk about.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah! It’s gonna be a lot of fun. Uh, I also want to thank the following Super Gap Bridgers. Thank you to Kit Oliver, Andrew Bugbee, William Bryant, Christopher M, John Crawley, Stephen Portch, Joh Stoessel, Harry Shaw, Josh Copeland, Jonathan Montañez, Waddu, Forrest Nail, Patrick Martin, James Barrow, Steve Douglas, Explosive Lasagna, Michael Cubbington, Just Jamie, Kevin Henderson, Tomas B, Timothy Saura, DustySands, AE Coleman, Chris Khachatourians, and Jerome York. Thank you so much for your support.
MIKE JOHNSON
Thanks for your money. [Kyle chuckles] That’s it! This has been Gayish. From the Chris Khachatourians studios, I’m Mike Johnson.
KYLE GETZ
I’m Kyle Getz. Until next week, be butch, be fabulous, be you!
MIKE JOHNSON
See you next week.
KYLE GETZ
See you next week.
[Outro music plays, instrumental]
KYLE GETZ
Where were you in 1991?
MIKE JOHNSON
Uh, I was living in Zillah-fucking-Washington.
KYLE GETZ
Great. Um, so, picture it: Sicily, 1991.
[Transcriptionist: C Dixon, CMDixonWork@gmail.com]
Why are they called circuit parties? Where did they come from? Why do people attend? Mike and Kyle talk about whether there stereotypes of circuit parties are true.
In this episode: News- 1:41 || Main Topic (Circuit Parties)- 15:51 || Gayest & Straightest- 58:28
Come see us live in Houston! Visit www.gayishpodcast.com/live for tour dates, details and tickets. We can’t wait to see you!
On the Patreon bonus segment, we revisit Gays Over Covid to see if time has given us any new insight on their circuit parties. If you want to support our show while getting ad-free episodes a day early, go to www.patreon.com/gayishpodcast.
FULL EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
INTRO MUSIC [MIKE JOHNSON SINGING]
When you know that you are queer but your favorite drink is beer, that’s Gayish. You can bottom without stopping but you can’t stand going shopping, that’s Gayish. Oh, Gayish. You’re probably Gayish. Oh life’s just too short for narrow stereotypes. Oh, it’s Gayish. We’re all so Gayish. It’s Gayish with Mike and Kyle.
MIKE JOHNSON
Hello, everyone in the podcast universe. This is Gayish.
KYLE GETZ
The podcast that dunks it’s junk in funky spunk.
MIKE JOHNSON
Ooh, sometimes… if you’re lucky. [both chuckle]
KYLE GETZ
If he’s cute.
MIKE JOHNSON
Uh, I’m Mike Johnson
KYLE GETZ
I’m Kyle Getz.
MIKE JOHNSON
And we’re here to bridge the gap between sexuality and actuality. And, today… [Kyle imitates pulsing club music] at a gay bar… [both laugh]
KYLE GETZ
I remember, that was… season one.
MIKE JOHNSON
That’s a deep cut.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. We’re gonna talk about circuit parties.
MIKE JOHNSON
We’re gonna talk about circuit parties. They’re like parties, in a circle.
KYLE GETZ
…But electrified.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. Uh, but…
KYLE GETZ
But-
MIKE JOHNSON
But first.
KYLE GETZ
But first.
MIKE JOHNSON
[both sigh] Back in the Studio, Kyle.
KYLE GETZ
What’s goin’ on, Mike? How you feelin’? How you doin’?
MIKE JOHNSON
Fine. This, like- This is- This is- We’ve been saying it all morning, doing the planning for the show, because we have our business meetings right before we record, that, like, I’m gonna be home a total of four days in October.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah?
MIKE JOHNSON
And, so, I’m just- I’m trying to enjoy this moment with you.
KYLE GETZ
Oh!
MIKE JOHNSON
…Because we’re gonna be virtual for the rest of the month. [chuckles]
KYLE GETZ
Yeah, we’re gonna be virtual. I’m not trying to enjoy this moment with you.
MIKE JOHNSON
Okay then, let’s move on.
KYLE GETZ
I’m trying to get through it.
MIKE JOHNSON
Great.
KYLE GETZ
[chuckles] JK, I can be in this moment. What do I see? What do I feel? What do I hear?
MIKE JOHNSON
[singing Shania Twain’s “From This Moment On”] From this moment… [speaking] Is that on the list? Because now it has to be.
KYLE GETZ
Now it is.
MIKE JOHNSON
Alright, uh, here’s the news.
[News segment intro plays, sung by MIKE JOHNSON]
Shut your mouth hole it’s time for your ear holes, news, news, news.
KYLE GETZ
[Mike chuckles] Yeah, let’s get right to it and-
MIKE JOHNSON
I don’t know, Kyle. Sometimes I feel bad when the news is, like, 90 seconds in.
KYLE GETZ
Oh.
MIKE JOHNSON
Like, people who don’t like the news didn’t get very much show before they skipped it.
KYLE GETZ
Oh, we can do more show before. Hey, this is still the pre-news-!
MIKE JOHNSON
No. That ship has sailed, Kyle.
KYLE GETZ
Oh, okay.
MIKE JOHNSON
We already played the song.
KYLE GETZ
We already played the song. [Mike chuckles]Well, I decide that.
MIKE JOHNSON
…You did play the song though.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
Just…
KYLE GETZ
I did.
MIKE JOHNSON
…FYI. Uh, news the first. So, a study came out- It’s not really a study though, is it? Because it was on SurveyMonkey. Anyway, there’s a survey of SurveyMonkey people that just came out that showed that, apparently, people in the United States are very, very torn about the question of whether teachers should be allowed to use a student’s chosen name and pronouns.
KYLE GETZ
Whoa.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. So, it was a collaboration between The 19th and SurveyMonkey, and they polled 20,000 adults, and 4 in 10 Americans believe teachers should be allowed to use a student’s chosen name that aligns with their current gender identity without informing the student’s parents, according to the survey’s findings. So, they’re conflating a few things and that’s why it’s, like, clearly not scientific, but only 40% of people said a teacher should be allowed to use a kid’s chosen name and pronouns without having to out them to their parents if it’s different than what’s on their birth certificate.
KYLE GETZ
Right.
MIKE JOHNSON
Which, that’s like- That seems like a whole bunch of steps. So, I feel less bad than the clickbaity thing of, like, “Only 4 in 10 Americans approve gender-affirming pronoun use.”
KYLE GETZ
Oh, okay. You think there’s a lot of conditions on that-
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
-that’s making it so-
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
Okay.
MIKE JOHNSON
Of course, younger adults are more on board. Adults aged 18-34 said- 49% of them backed that. Only 36% of adults aged 35-64. And then, surprisingly though, better than the 35-64 range, those 65 and over it was 40%.
KYLE GETZ
Wow.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah!
KYLE GETZ
What’s up with my age demographic?
MIKE JOHNSON
And mine too.
KYLE GETZ
Huh.
MIKE JOHNSON
Explain yourselves, older millennials and Gen Xers. [laughs]
KYLE GETZ
Explain ourselves, us. Okay, if this was not about trans people, someone was using their middle name or someone just said to you “I’m a boy,” like, this would not be an issue.
MIKE JOHNSON
Right.
KYLE GETZ
It’s so frustrating because no one’s gonna be like, “Oh, this- You’re going by your middle name, not your first name. I gotta go tell your parents to make sure you’re allowed to do that.” Like-
MIKE JOHNSON
Right.
KYLE GETZ
It doesn’t- It’s just because it’s trans issues.
MIKE JOHNSON
Right. Well, it is also the law in several places, which is just fucking infuriating and terrifying.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
In Arkansas, for instance, teachers require parental approval to use a student’s pronouns or name if it doesn’t align with their birth certificate.
KYLE GETZ
Are they checking birth certificates?
MIKE JOHNSON
Apparently so.
KYLE GETZ
They’re- The teacher does not have all the birth certificates on hand of all the kids.
MIKE JOHNSON
[fumbles words]
KYLE GETZ
Mike!
MIKE JOHNSON
I- Are you sure?
KYLE GETZ
They don’t- No, the teachers aren’t looking at birth certificates.
MIKE JOHNSON
Oh, sure, but the- Yeah, that’s true. You’re right. The school has them though, certainly… I would think. Some form of identification.
KYLE GETZ
I don’t know. I don’t know how going to school works. I thought you just kinda push your kid in the door and say “Deal with it, loser! Have fun.”
MIKE JOHNSON
[laughs] Um, yeah. Dr. Angela Kade Goepferd of the Children’s Minnesota gender health program told The Advocate that there is a misconception that medical care for transgender young people involves secret conversations behind parents backs or kids who are seen and immediately prescribed puberty blockers and hormones. Extremists also claim that doctors are performing gender confirmation surgeries on children, when, in reality, none of those things are the case.
KYLE GETZ
Right.
MIKE JOHNSON
And, um, so it’s just created this weird, like, “Your school is trying to trans your kids behind your back. Be worried about that,” and then people get all, like, parental rights… ridiculous.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
People are so fuckin’ stupid when it comes to their children. Jesus Christ.
KYLE GETZ
You gotta earn your kids trust. If your kid isn’t telling you shit, that’s on you. That’s not on the school.
MIKE JOHNSON
Right.
KYLE GETZ
You gotta- You need to get a better relationship with your child then.
MIKE JOHNSON
Well, and, if you are a “No child of mine is going to be trans,” your kid’s probably going to kill themselves.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
So, like, that’s on you also.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
So, like, get your shit together.
KYLE GETZ
Get your shit together.
MIKE JOHNSON
It might save your kid’s life.
KYLE GETZ
Yep. [both sigh] In this moment with you, Mike. We’re in this moment, here in the studio.
MIKE JOHNSON
Oh God. Okay, uh, news the second. You ready for this?
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
Another new study that is reporting that the use of AI technologies in schools is…
KYLE GETZ
Gay.
MIKE JOHNSON
…posing a risk to LGBTQ students…
KYLE GETZ
Aw.
MIKE JOHNSON
…and could infringe on their rights.
MIKE JOHNSON
Um, so this was released on Wednesday the 20th of September last week, and researchers found that tech used to block explicit adult content and flag students at risk of self-harm or harming others are putting already vulnerable students at risk, particularly those who are LGBTQ+, disabled, or students of color. So, basically, they’re using AI technology, in some places, in schools to determine if the browsing history of a person at the fuckin’ library indicates that they are potentially suicidal or, um, other risk factors.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
But that is overwhelmingly flagging students of color, disabled students, and queer students. And then, depending on the jurisdiction, causing them to be outed.
KYLE GETZ
Hm.
MIKE JOHNSON
Right? Because then the school calls the parents and is like “Our AI internet babysitter says that Timmy is gay.”
KYLE GETZ
Oh my god.
MIKE JOHNSON
“What are we gonna do about it?”
KYLE GETZ
Can you imagine, like, you go to school because you’re probably not- you don’t want to search on it at home where someone may look at your laptop, so you go to school to try to search for things and try to get information, and even that’s not safe.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yep. Yep.
KYLE GETZ
Where do you go if you can’t go to the library at school?
MIKE JOHNSON
Yep, absolutely.
KYLE GETZ
I guess you could just use your phone. [chuckles]
MIKE JOHNSON
Uh, the Center for Democracy and Technology polled 1029 students from 9th-12th grade, 1008 teen parents of 6th-12th grade students, and 1005 teachers of 6th-12th grade students, and found that almost 30% of queer students reported that either themselves or another student had been outed as queer.
KYLE GETZ
Wow, a third of students reported that? Damn.
MIKE JOHNSON
Well, of queer students.
KYLE GETZ
Right, right, right.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. And, um-
KYLE GETZ
That’s a lot.
MIKE JOHNSON
And half of all queer students said that they or another people had been disciplined for doing something online, only compared to 39% of straight students.
KYLE GETZ
Mm.
MIKE JOHNSON
[sighs] 9 in 10 teachers said that they are using AI monitoring technology of some kind on school devices.
KYLE GETZ
Wow. I had no idea they were doing that.
MIKE JOHNSON
And 4 in 10 teachers also said their school monitors their students personal devices.
KYLE GETZ
What?
MIKE JOHNSON
This monitoring takes place both in and outside school hours, with 38% of teachers reporting that they monitor out of school time. …I- I don’t know how that’s possible, unless- I don’t know- I don’t know. Like, “You have to install this spyware on your phone because you’re my student”? I don’t know how any of that works, but that seems pretty fuckin’ stupid if you ask me.
KYLE GETZ
Bit of an overreach.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah, a bit of an overreach. Anyway, it’s really scary and, uh, I think that there’s a lot of concern that is well founded that AI is going to do the wrong thing.
KYLE GETZ
Mhm.
MIKE JOHNSON
Right? Large language models are trained on the internet, which is fucking racist, and homophobic, and ableist, and therefore LLMs are going to inherently be racist, [chuckles] homophobic, and ablest. And so, I don’t know. Like, it’s a real danger, right? Like, the world is built for white people and if AI – white, able-bodied Christian people – and if AI is catering to them at the expense of other groups, it’s just gonna perpetuate all of the shitty problems that we’ve already experienced in life, so…
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. Yeah. We need a gay version of the movie Her.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeaaaah.
KYLE GETZ
I guess it’d just be called “Him”.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. I’m pretty sure that it’s almost happening to me on Grindr already. You know, like-
KYLE GETZ
[chuckles] You’re falling for some bots?
MIKE JOHNSON
There’s so many bots out there, and they’re getting better – like, not great, but better – at, like, seeming human.
KYLE GETZ
And they’re very handsome.
MIKE JOHNSON
They’re all- Yeah. Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
They’re all in the military and need money.
MIKE JOHNSON
They- Yep, that’s true. [Kyle chuckles] And they all work in crypto. [both chuckle] Uh, anyway, sorry, kids. Just… I don’t know, hang in there? I don’t know what el- I have no- I have nothin’.
KYLE GETZ
You don’t have to- You just have to report the news, you don’t have to give them advice on how to deal with it.
MIKE JOHNSON
Well, that’s true. …News the third!
KYLE GETZ
Great.
MIKE JOHNSON
Uh, the state of California has signed – the governor has signed – four pieces of legislation that are aimed at strengthening protections and providing better support for queer youth in California.
KYLE GETZ
Oh, great.
MIKE JOHNSON
The measures include AB 5, which sets out implementation timelines for queer cultural competency training by public school teachers and staff…
KYLE GETZ
Ooh.
MIKE JOHNSON
…the establishment of an advisory task Force to identify queer pupil needs across the state, that’s SB 857… and AB 223 which requires any petition for a minor to change their sex markers to be kept confidential by the court.
KYLE GETZ
Oh! So, kinda oppositesies.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. As well as this: SB 407 directs the Department of Social Services to amend the foster care vetting process to make sure that queer youth in the foster system are not placed in anti-queer foster homes. Uh, this law will offer better protections for extremely vulnerable queer young people in the state. Gavin Newsom, who, like, is just kind of a daddy, really… [Kyle laughs] um, signed those bills right after he vetoed a piece of legislation that would make parents affirmation of their child’s gender a factor in child custody hearings.
KYLE GETZ
That seems like it could go both ways.
MIKE JOHNSON
It seems like it could go both ways.
KYLE GETZ
Depending on the judge or- Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. The governor said that he chose not to sign that bill because courts in the state are already required to consider a child’s health, safety, and welfare when determining the best interests of a child in these proceedings, and that includes a parent’s affirmation of their child’s gender.
KYLE GETZ
Mm. Oh, yeah, the affirmation of gender is part of health care for your trans kids, so you should be required to follow medical, like, guidelines or recommendations.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yep. I think that this kind of thing is gonna continue to get worse and worse. Like, us left coast states are going to continue to do the right thing, be on the right side of history, and I think that red states are gonna keep digging their heels in, using trans people as a wedge issue, and erode queer rights as much as they possibly can because that’s easier to spoon feed to your sheeple, I guess, than anything else.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. But I wonder if the- like, after the presidential election if it’s gonna die down a little bit. Like, I wonder if a lot of this is to get your name out there during the election.
MIKE JOHNSON
[sighs] Yeah. Possible… I’m not gonna hold my breath though.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. I- Yeah. [chuckles] There’s no reason to have hope.
MIKE JOHNSON
Because- Well, it also depends on who wins, right?
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
If Biden wins, I think it gets worse.
KYLE GETZ
Mmm.
MIKE JOHNSON
I don’t think they just go like “Oh, well, we lost!”
KYLE GETZ
“Oh, no.”
MIKE JOHNSON
…and stop, right?
KYLE GETZ
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
We’ll see. Anyway, thanks, California. I hope that your… legislation trends are- rub off on states like Nevada and Idaho that are pretty close to you and shitty.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah, California, rub off on people near you. [chuckles]
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah, just… just cum all over their faces… with your legislation jizz. [both chuckle] That’s the news!
KYLE GETZ
Speaking of people I wanna rub off… [both chuckle]
MIKE JOHNSON
Have cum on your face.
KYLE GETZ
Thanks to the following Patreon members, who support us by going to patreon.com/gayishpodcast. Thank you to Troy- Oh, Troy.
MIKE JOHNSON
Just “Troy”?
KYLE GETZ
No. Nope. There’s another name here, and Troy knew [Mike chuckles] when Troy signed up that this was- …Schermerhowern.
MIKE JOHNSON
“Schermerhowern”?
KYLE GETZ
That’s “Schermerhorn”. I think that’s it.
MIKE JOHNSON
“Schermerhorn”?
KYLE GETZ
Schermerhorn.
MIKE JOHNSON
Can I see it?
KYLE GETZ
Yeah, how would you say that, oh fancy pronunciation name guy?
MIKE JOHNSON
I would say “Schermerhorn”?
KYLE GETZ
Right? [Mike chuckles] This is the last time you double check my work, asshole. Um, Randy-
MIKE JOHNSON
We both know that’s not true.
KYLE GETZ
I know. Nor should it be. Uh, Randy Saldinger… [stuttering through last name]
MIKE JOHNSON
[chuckles] Great.
KYLE GETZ
Fuck. …Elijah Michaelshshsm… [Mike laughs] I’m falling apart. I don’t know how I’m gonna go on with this episode. Elijah Michael Schweikert? And… here, I’m gonna give you th- “Schweikert”?
MIKE JOHNSON
Schweikert.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah, yeah. And-
MIKE JOHNSON
Maybe “Schweikert”, [with a v sound for the w] but it’s probably-
KYLE GETZ
Schweikert. [with v sound]
MIKE JOHNSON
Schweikert. [with v sound]
KYLE GETZ
Um, and Huck the Rigger.
MIKE JOHNSON
Huck the Rigger.
KYLE GETZ
Uh, thank you to our Patreon members. If you want to support us by directly giving us money…
MIKE JOHNSON
Mhm.
KYLE GETZ
…then get our Venmos. If you wanna indirectly give us money, go to patreon.com/gayishpodcast.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yep. Yep. And we’ll take it.
KYLE GETZ
And we’ll take it… good. So good. [Mike laughs]
MIKE JOHNSON
You wanna talk about circuit parties?
KYLE GETZ
Let’s talk about circuit parties.
MIKE JOHNSON
[to the tune of “Let’s Talk About Sex” by Salt-N-Pepa] Let’s talk about circuit parties.
KYLE GETZ
[also to the tune] Let’s talk about parties that circuit.
MIKE JOHNSON
[chuckles] So, this was a Patreon vote. I have been victorious again.
KYLE GETZ
Yes, you, as per usual, most months, you tend to win the Patreon vote.
MIKE JOHNSON
Which, when I wrote it down I didn’t realize how popular it was going to be. I really thought that maybe it was gonna be close. The three choices this month were circuit parties, employee resource groups, and the third one… film festivals. [chuckles]
KYLE GETZ
Film festivals. I knew film festivals wasn’t gonna be it, but…
MIKE JOHNSON
Eh, yeah. It’s just, it’s interesting to me that, like, as boring and corporate as ERG sound, that, like, film festivals are worse. [both laugh]
KYLE GETZ
Um, yeah we’re going to do employee resource groups for our bonus, uh, Patreon, uh, episode.
MIKE JOHNSON
Episode this month, yeah.
KYLE GETZ
So join Patreon for that. And, we have, like, 40-somethin’-odd other episodes, if you want to- if you’re caught up on Gayish and want more episodes to listen to.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. Fucking Dan used to keep track of how many hours of Patreon content there was, and we stopped doing that.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah, we didn’t do that. It’s probably a lot though.
MIKE JOHNSON
It’s probably a lot.
KYLE GETZ
It’s at least… 45 hours of bonus episodes.
MIKE JOHNSON
Easy.
KYLE GETZ
Easy, yeah. Um, this was also a survey request. Circuit parties was also a survey request, so that’s where- It was on the idea list from that survey so, whoever sent this in in the survey, thanks so much for doing that. Um, now we have to talk about it.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. So we’re gonna talk about it.
KYLE GETZ
So here we go. We’re talkin’ about it.
MIKE JOHNSON
Circuit parties.
KYLE GETZ
Circuit parties.
MIKE JOHNSON
Okay, I’m a little bit worried…
KYLE GETZ
Okay.
MIKE JOHNSON
…that, uh… I have a personal sort of, I guess negative, opinion of circuit parties, and I’m afraid of offending people that go to them, because they are very popular.
KYLE GETZ
They are super popular. And, like, hot popular people go to them.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
So, like, these are the people-
MIKE JOHNSON
Oh, they’re not listening to us anyway. It’s fine.
KYLE GETZ
That’s true, they’re listening to cooler podcasts like The Read.
MIKE JOHNSON
[chuckles] Uh, I’m gonna talk to you about the history of circuit parties though.
KYLE GETZ
Okay.
MIKE JOHNSON
What do you know about the history circuit parties? Did you-
KYLE GETZ
Nothing.
MIKE JOHNSON
You didn’t read any of it?
KYLE GETZ
Nope. I avoided all data on it.
MIKE JOHNSON
If you had to guess, what decade would you think was the first one?
KYLE GETZ
‘70s.
MIKE JOHNSON
The 1970s! Good work, Kyle!
KYLE GETZ
Yeaaah! Point for me.
MIKE JOHNSON
A point for Kyle. Ding. Um, we can’t afford a real bell.
KYLE GETZ
[laughs] We can’t afford a bell, so we do our own sound effects.
MIKE JOHNSON
Um, yeah, so the roots of circuit parties were in what were called “disco parties” starting in the 1970s, and I can only imagine how many disco songs they must have played.
KYLE GETZ
Oh my god.
MIKE JOHNSON
They lasted only one night, and were held in larger venues in big cities, primarily in New York – that’s really where they got their start – but other metros also: San Francisco, Los Angeles, etc. And uh, but the first set of, like, theme-centered gay parties were started by this place called “The Saint” in the East Village in 1980. So, The Saint, they had a dome-covered dance floor, they had a dome suspended in midair over the dance floor with a planetarium mechanism that projected stars into the dome over the dance floor, and they did it every weekend starting in September. And then that got bigger and bigger as a thing. And so, it kind of reminds me a little bit of, like, Fetish Night at CC’s.
KYLE GETZ
Oh, yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
Right? Like, once a month, you know, the first Saturday of the month, is gonna be gear night up there. And it’s just turned into a bigger and bigger thing. And they, like, rearrange the furniture, like, do- So that’s how circuit parties really got started, was, like, by having special themed nights like that.
KYLE GETZ
Hm. Hm!
MIKE JOHNSON
Um, let’s see… So, there was another circuit party that was started by a guy named Corbett Reynolds. He was in-
KYLE GETZ
[gasps] That’s my dog’s name.
MIKE JOHNSON
Awh.
KYLE GETZ
Awh.
MIKE JOHNSON
Is it “Corbett”?
KYLE GETZ
Corbett! [both chuckle] My dog, Corbett. No, Reynolds. That’s my dog’s name.
MIKE JOHNSON
Corbett. [Like “CORE-bit”] I bet his name is “Corbett”, but it’s spelled “Corbett”. [like “core-BET”]. Corbett. Corbett Reynolds.
KYLE GETZ
Sure.
MIKE JOHNSON
A Columbus, Ohio-based artist, nightclub owner in the late 70s… and he wanted to have, quote, “a one-night party-to-end-all-parties” and wanted it to be designed around the theme color of red and started calling it “the Red Party”, which-
KYLE GETZ
Oo, I’ve heard of this.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah, a lot of circuit parties are just a color.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. [both chuckle]
MIKE JOHNSON
I don’t really know why, but…
KYLE GETZ
Yeah, the theme is just a color.
MIKE JOHNSON
And, um, now, the Red Party that you’re thinking of, where everybody wears the red dresses, Red Dress Party, is not this.
KYLE GETZ
Ohhh.
MIKE JOHNSON
And, I mean, it might be like the spiritual successor of this, but the Red Party died when Mr. Reynolds died. [laughs]
KYLE GETZ
Aw. [chuckles] Mike, you can’t laugh at that.
MIKE JOHNSON
Alright. [laughs] I mean, he’s dead. Whatever.
KYLE GETZ
What’s he gonna say about it?
MIKE JOHNSON
On the 25th anniversary of the Red Party, the theme of which was to have been Rome, Mr. Reynolds died, and the people in charge of his estate decided to retire the concept. So-
KYLE GETZ
Yeah, it’s like “Hey, here’s this party. Do you wanna plan it now?” Like, no…
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
Absolutely not.
MIKE JOHNSON
Nope. But they are incredibly profitable, which I thought was really, really interesting.
KYLE GETZ
Really?
MIKE JOHNSON
Um, there are even cities that sort of have embraced the big circuit parties, like White Party in Palm Springs. They, for a long time, fought it, and then they elected a gay mayor and now, suddenly, they’re realizing, like, “Oh, there’s actually millions of dollars of revenue into the tourist industry here.”
KYLE GETZ
All it takes is a gay mayor to turn your city around. Everyone, elect gay mayors.
MIKE JOHNSON
Right? Elect gay mayors… they’re great.
KYLE GETZ
They’re great. They’ll- [chuckles] They’ll celebrate circuit parties.
MIKE JOHNSON
Except, ours wasn’t so great.
KYLE GETZ
Oh, yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
As you might recall.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. Okay, so, circuit parties went through a sort of a transformation, understandably, when AIDS started rearing its ugly head on our community. The parties sort of pivoted to becoming, like, benefit parties, like “We’re gonna raise money for this thing that’s happening.” Um, but then, also, just being a period of fear, there was a lot of judgment and stigma associated with sex, and queer promiscuity, drug use. All of this sort of, I guess, tainted the image of what was just, like, a “get together and dance” kind of a vibe.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
Um…let’s see… In the early 90s… so, HIV/AIDS, we learned a lot more about how it’s transmitted and we learned about treatment options, and we didn’t have PrEP yet but things were getting better in that space. Uh, that’s really when the modern day circuit party got started, and they just started getting bigger and bigger like trying to outdo each other. So promoters would turn events from one party into, like, a series of parties at various venues nearby so that you would have like a three day or longer party.
KYLE GETZ
Oh my god, that sounds exhausting.
MIKE JOHNSON
I know it sounds exhausting, and I’ve heard more than once that, like, that’s why [chuckles] Tina is so popular at circuit parties, because you gotta be on somethin’ to make it through all this shit. [Kyle chuckles] Um, in the 90s, the circuit party scene was – this is from the New York Times – was fueled by ecstasy, much as the rest of the club scene was. Now it’s GHB and methamphetamine, better known as crystal meth or Tina. Not only does crystal meth give revelers the stamina to stay up for three days without a nap, it can also enable marathon and often unprotected sex sessions. And in fact, a lot of gay men’s health organizations have stopped sponsoring circuit parties because they fear that it looks like they’re endorsing drug use.
KYLE GETZ
Oh.
MIKE JOHNSON
So the, like, association between “Circuit party = drugs,” is very firmly, like, ensconced.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. Yeah. I wonder if that’s a good venue to promote safe sex, or… I wonder if those were venues to promote information about AIDS and prevention and all that. Like, that would be a good time and place to educate people on it.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. They certainly- They certainly could be. There’s, um… I’ll get to that-
KYLE GETZ
Okay.
MIKE JOHNSON
-in just a second. While I’m thinking about it, the reason they’re called “circuit parties” is, um-
KYLE GETZ
Oooh.
MIKE JOHNSON
-that it is like a circuit at a gym. So…
KYLE GETZ
[chuckles] That’s what’s gayer than the circuit party, the fact that it’s based on a gym term.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yep. The New York Times said that, uh, let’s see… Although the parties were initially run by nightclubs or nonprofit health organizations, professional promoters saw an opportunity to turn them into money making all weekend events. Gay men began referring to the far-flung events as “the circuit” after circuit training routines at the gym. One example was you do a pool party from noon to 5, a tea dance from 5 to 9, a main event from 9 to 4am, and after hours party from 4am until noon, and that’s when the next pool party starts. So, [chuckles] that’s-
KYLE GETZ
Oh my god. [Mike chuckles] I’m like, “Do I have the energy to go play games with my friends tonight?”
MIKE JOHNSON
Right.
KYLE GETZ
“For several hours in a row?”
MIKE JOHNSON
Right. Right.
KYLE GETZ
Much less- Of course it’s named after gym, because, like, it’s the gym gays that go to these kinds of things.
MIKE JOHNSON
Absolutely. That’s one of the big stereotypes and criticisms of circuit parties. So, there was actually a big… the Wikipedia article says a “peak and decline in popularity” in the 2000s. And the total number of events got big and then started to decline. And the New York Times, again, was trying to figure out why, and they determined that, at least in part, it had to do with competition, that all of these places were starting to try to outdo each other as much as possible. And so, instead of having these, like, concentrations, it really spread out. The market got saturated, basically.
KYLE GETZ
Mhm. And they cannibalized each other.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. But uh, the decline in attendance was attributed to several factors: the original circuit audience that began attending circuit parties in the 80s and 90s had grown older and no longer had such an active interest in multiday partying; the experience of AIDS changed in the context of the availability of more effective treatments; and, in addition, all gay cruises, which attract upwards of 1500 passengers at a time, have had a dramatic impact on the attendance at circuit parties.
KYLE GETZ
Huh.
MIKE JOHNSON
And um, but- So, since 2010 though, apparently circuit parties have had somewhat of a resurgence. And one of the thoughts about that is actually PrEP has made these big, drug and sex-fueled parties safer and more attractive. There also is a bunch of work that’s being done to, as you were saying, handout condoms, handout information, make people aware of safe sex practices. And there are several of these bigger circuit parties that have started to do that in an effort to sort of clean up the image of circuit parties. Anyway, yeah. So that’s sort of the history and where we’re at. There are now a bunch of circuit parties that have been going on for 30 years.
KYLE GETZ
Wow.
MIKE JOHNSON
And some of the some of the, um- Some of the criticisms, some of the controversies surrounding it, are first- Well, you can probably guess what they are. What do you think they are?
KYLE GETZ
Um, that it’s just hot White dudes.
MIKE JOHNSON
Hot White dudes. Bing! There’s our cheap bell. [Kyle chuckles] Um, yeah, “hot White dudes” is definitely a thing. So, while open to anyone, the parties are generally viewed as social events primarily for physically fit and masculine-identified White gay men. What else?
KYLE GETZ
Um, I mean, you mentioned drugs a bunch, that they…
MIKE JOHNSON
Drugs. Drug use is- Yep, that’s a huge criticism. And the data shows us that- that there’s a lot of drugs happening.
KYLE GETZ
I have some data on this, so…
MIKE JOHNSON
Excellent. Uh, what else? What do you think?
KYLE GETZ
Um, that, uh- Unsafe sex.
MIKE JOHNSON
Unsafe sex is a big one, and absolutely true. Uh, and the last one, and the one that I hadn’t really considered until doing this, is that they’re expensive.
KYLE GETZ
Ohh.
MIKE JOHNSON
One of the reasons that keeps it White is because- the price. There are a lot of circuit parties that are upwards of $400, and that doesn’t include travel or lodging.
KYLE GETZ
Damn.
MIKE JOHNSON
That’s just to go to the party.
KYLE GETZ
It’s just the ticket?
MIKE JOHNSON
And then you gotta buy your booze and/or drugs at, like- And just that it is prohibitively expensive for people that aren’t affluent, and most affluence in the queer community is White gay men.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
So, anyway, yeah, that’s what I got… so far, anyway. Do you have data?
KYLE GETZ
I have some gayta that I’m gonna share with you.
MIKE JOHNSON
Gayta gayta gayta gayta gayta.
KYLE GETZ
The classic gayta song.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
You know it. You love it. Gayta gayta gayta gaaayta. Um… this is a study-
MIKE JOHNSON
Gayta! [both chuckle]
KYLE GETZ
Gayta! This is “The Circuit Party Men’s Health Survey: findings and implications for gay and bisexual men.” by Gordan Mansergh, Grant Colfax, Gary Marks, Melissa Rader, Robert Guzman, and Susan Buchbinder. [like “BUTCH-bind-er”]
MIKE JOHNSON
No.
KYLE GETZ
Yeaaah.
MIKE JOHNSON
No.
KYLE GETZ
Yeaaah, Buchbinder. If you’re a transmasc person, you may need a Buchbinder.
MIKE JOHNSON
That’s true.
KYLE GETZ
[chuckles] Don’t wear it all day though.
MIKE JOHNSON
Absolutely true.
KYLE GETZ
It’s not safe. Um, this came out in 2001, and they studied- they surveyed 295 gay and bisexual men from the San Francisco Bay Area who had attended a circuit party in the previous year.
MIKE JOHNSON
Okay.
KYLE GETZ
Now one of the reasons that I picked this is because they didn’t just have information about sex and drugs, they also had motivations for why people attend circuit parties.
MIKE JOHNSON
Okay, great.
KYLE GETZ
So, I wanted to, like-
MIKE JOHNSON
Was just, like, a checkbox that said “Because it’s fun,”? [laughs]
KYLE GETZ
“Fun”. Because you like “fun”. Um, I mean, kind of. 98% of people said that the reason was to listen to music and dance.
MIKE JOHNSON
Great.
KYLE GETZ
That’s a good reason to attend a circuit party.
MIKE JOHNSON
I suppose so. Yeah. I mean, you can do that in your kitchen if you want.
KYLE GETZ
That’s true. It’s much cheaper. [Mike chuckles] I don’t have to fly anywhere. Uh, 97% said “to be with friends”.
MIKE JOHNSON
Great.
KYLE GETZ
You can also do that in your kitchen if you want to, but…
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. Yeah… but then you gotta feed them.
KYLE GETZ
You gotta feed them and…
MIKE JOHNSON
Do the dishes after they leave.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. Yeah, that’s true. Friends are a burden. [both chuckle] You’re right, Mike. Don’t get new friends. Uh, then we get to-
MIKE JOHNSON
97% though, that surprises me, because I think the implication there then is that almost everyone goes to be with or see friends, right?
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
Like, I don’t think of that as being a group activity, but I guess it is.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
But I’m not in that scene, so I don’t know.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. Yeah, it seems like that’s a huge part of it, because then it steps down to 78%. So, like, those two are the big reasons why people go.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
78%, “to look at or be around beautiful men”.
MIKE JOHNSON
Sure.
KYLE GETZ
72%, “meet new people/make new friends”.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
I would think that you’d have, like, your circuit party friends that are, like, a separate set of people that you just run into at all these circuit parties.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah, I did read a little bit about… There was like a circuit party network, especially in the earlier days, of, like, all of these men from all these different cities that would see each other the three times a year when they were at the same circuit party.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
And, um that they started to, like, recognize each other and build relationships and friendships. In the days before social media, it was just like “We go to the same random-ass circuit parties all over the country,” so…
KYLE GETZ
That happened to me when I was in college. I would, like, have friends that I would only hang out with when we were going to underage drink.
MIKE JOHNSON
Oh. Sure, yeah.
KYLE GETZ
You know? Like, we didn’t hang out outside of that, we just were like… if it was a weekend and we wanted to go underage drink, we- that was the person we called to figure out if someone could get alcohol or-
MIKE JOHNSON
I joined a fraternity. [both laugh]
KYLE GETZ
Let’s see… 65% said “a feeling of community”.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah, okay.
KYLE GETZ
You do probably feel pretty gay at a circuit party.
MIKE JOHNSON
I bet so. Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
I mean, what’s gayer than going to a circuit party… other than actual anal intercourse?
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. Which happens at some circuit parties, so…
KYLE GETZ
I mean, that might be part of your circuit party plans.
MIKE JOHNSON
Apparently the Black Party is one that’s known for, like, full-on fuckin’ at the party.
KYLE GETZ
Mm!
MIKE JOHNSON
Anyway, go ‘head.
KYLE GETZ
[quietly] I have some data on that.
MIKE JOHNSON
Ooo.
KYLE GETZ
Um, 57% said “get high on drugs”.
MIKE JOHNSON
Sure.
KYLE GETZ
So, you know…
MIKE JOHNSON
I mean, more than half.
KYLE GETZ
More than half. But it’s not up there at- Like, I would expect this to have been much higher. Like, as- When you think of circuit parties, I think immediately of, like… hot, annoying dudes going and doing drugs. Like, those are what I think of. And so, it’s not up there as one of the top few reasons that people go.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
So, you know, it’s a little bit lower than I expected.
MIKE JOHNSON
But also more than half.
KYLE GETZ
But also more than h- [Mike chuckles] You’re right, more than half. Um, 53% said “to feel desirable”.
MIKE JOHNSON
I get that, girl.
KYLE GETZ
What?
MIKE JOHNSON
Like… it can be validating, if you’re one of those people.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah, if you’re hot and have a nice body then you get- then you’re like “Here’s a venue to show off my hot body.”
MIKE JOHNSON
Right.
KYLE GETZ
But if you’re not one of those…
MIKE JOHNSON
Right.
KYLE GETZ
I just imagine- Yeah. We’ll talk about it. We- I’ve never been, so I just-
MIKE JOHNSON
Me neither.
KYLE GETZ
I think a circuit party is my worst fear. Uh, 46% said “to escape everyday life”. 30% said “have sex”.
MIKE JOHNSON
Wow, that surprises me.
KYLE GETZ
Because it’s low?
MIKE JOHNSON
Because it’s low.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah, yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
Huh.
KYLE GETZ
The- Yeah, “Do drugs” and “have sex,” not- Again, like, not the top two reasons that people are goin’ to this.
MIKE JOHNSON
Apparently 20-something-% are just doing the drugs part. [chuckles]
KYLE GETZ
Just the drugs! Uh, maybe they’re not- [chuckles] The motivation for attending- Maybe the motivation for attending isn’t having sex, but, like…
MIKE JOHNSON
It happens?
KYLE GETZ
Maybe sex still happens. You know?
MIKE JOHNSON
Oh, okay. That’s true.
KYLE GETZ
Uh, only 10%-
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah, did they ask “What do you do there?” or “Why?” “What do you hope to do there?” [Mike chuckles]
KYLE GETZ
Yep. Yep. And, only 10% said they go to get drunk on alcohol.
MIKE JOHNSON
How many percent?
KYLE GETZ
10.
MIKE JOHNSON
‘Kay. See? This is how I know I don’t belong there.
KYLE GETZ
[chuckles] ‘Cause-
MIKE JOHNSON
‘Cause all I want to do is get drunk. [chuckles] And that’s not why those people are there.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. So, onto the drugs, nearly all of the respondents reported using a psychoactive drug during their most recent circuit party weekend.
MIKE JOHNSON
Nearly all.
KYLE GETZ
Nearly all of them did.
MIKE JOHNSON
Great.
KYLE GETZ
So… yeah. Although it was not a top motivator, it is still nearly everyone that’s doing drugs while there. Um, only 11% consumed alcohol exclusively. Again, this goes to your-
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
Like, the point of a party, for me, is to drink alcohol, not-
MIKE JOHNSON
I wonder if they’re counting that as being psychoactive though, like, ‘cause-
KYLE GETZ
No… No.
MIKE JOHNSON
No?
KYLE GETZ
I think they excluded drinking from that.
MIKE JOHNSON
Okay.
KYLE GETZ
I’m pretty sure. Um, among-
MIKE JOHNSON
And whether they did or not, it’s only 11% so whatever.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, among men using drugs, the number of different drugs range from 1 to 7.
MIKE JOHNSON
Oh God.
KYLE GETZ
Can you imagine 7?
MIKE JOHNSON
I don’t know if I can name 7 drugs, Kyle. [both chuckle]
KYLE GETZ
Wellbutrin…
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. [laughs]
KYLE GETZ
Trintellix… Uh, the median was 3. Most men had taken ecstasy or ketamine, or both, as well as other substances during the weekend.
MIKE JOHNSON
Great. Okay.
KYLE GETZ
A median of 3? Even 3 drugs is a lot of drugs to be doing at the same time, in my mind.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah… Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
GHB and… something else is easy mix. Eh. 74% did drugs at the party.
MIKE JOHNSON
Sure.
KYLE GETZ
And many of them were on the dance floor in the bathroom.
MIKE JOHNSON
…Did the drugs? The drugs part?
KYLE GETZ
The drugs.
MIKE JOHNSON
Okay, great.
KYLE GETZ
The drugs, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, yeah, so, you go and… it’s not like a pregame drugs thing.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
Two… three…
MIKE JOHNSON
It’s a during the game.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. It’s a midgame decision on the fly.
MIKE JOHNSON
On the field
KYLE GETZ
On the field, yes. [both chuckle] Sports metaphor. So good. Doing it goodly. Um, and… sex partners. What percentage of respondents reported multiple sex partners during the weekend?
MIKE JOHNSON
Multiple sex partners? 60!
KYLE GETZ
29%.
MIKE JOHNSON
Well…
KYLE GETZ
So- Including oral and anal, which…
MIKE JOHNSON
Great. I do.
KYLE GETZ
I do. [both chuckle] I do include both, and I do both. Um, 9% had sex at the event.
MIKE JOHNSON
That seems low to me, but okay.
KYLE GETZ
Really?
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
I mean, at- Like, at the party it’s like-
MIKE JOHNSON
I mean, I’ve never been to one. And, the image that I have in my head of one is that there’s lots of dicks doing lots of things.
KYLE GETZ
Like- Yeah, like, on the dance floor though?
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. Eh. Of those 9% that had sex at the event, half of those were on the dance floor.
MIKE JOHNSON
Great.
KYLE GETZ
And 39% were in a restroom.
MIKE JOHNSON
Great.
KYLE GETZ
Restroom seems like a better place to go, because you can, like, close the door and not be, like, in the middle of the dance floor. I don’t know.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah… I don’t. I don’t like that.
KYLE GETZ
What… part of it?
MIKE JOHNSON
Bathroom sex just…
KYLE GETZ
Oh.
MIKE JOHNSON
I don’t know.
KYLE GETZ
Because you’re right by a toilet?
MIKE JOHNSON
And everything is always so, like, wet, and gross, and, like, potentially stinky and, like, there’s nothing to lay down on. I don’t know. It’s just… eck.
KYLE GETZ
Not a hot venue for sex?
MIKE JOHNSON
Right.
KYLE GETZ
But there’s, like, something risky about it.
MIKE JOHNSON
That’s true.
KYLE GETZ
It’s exciting.
MIKE JOHNSON
That’s true. I get that.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. Let’s see… uh, 63% reported seeing condoms. [Mike chuckles] So, I think… [chuckles] Um…
MIKE JOHNSON
There’s condoms right next to the lube in my nightstand. I see them.
KYLE GETZ
I see them. [Mike chuckles] I see you, condoms.
MIKE JOHNSON
They’re there.
KYLE GETZ
I see you. And 30% reported taking condoms.
MIKE JOHNSON
[chuckles] Holding them in their hand… and caressing them. [chuckles]
KYLE GETZ
This will make a funny balloon joke while I’m here. Oh, it’s like a pool party. You can inflate it. That’d be funny.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
Um, so I pictured them as- This is, I think, part of why I mentioned the desire to promote safer sex practices, is, I think- I imagine them, like having condoms, trying to, like you said, like, kind of make their image a little bit better.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. Yeah. I am sad about some of the data, Kyle.
KYLE GETZ
What part of it, Mike?
MIKE JOHNSON
The drugs part?
KYLE GETZ
Oh, about how much drugs they do?
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. I am a naïve, sheltered child when it comes to, like, drugs. I’ve done so few of them. I don’t pay attention to, like, my surroundings much, I guess. I remember how fucking just shocked and appalled I was when somebody asked if they could do cocaine at my house. And, like… but there’s coke everywhere, apparently. Like, I just am- Anyway, so… I think I have some, like, prudish, like… judgy hang-ups about drugs. And so the idea that, like, in my head, circuit parties equal drugs, I was kind of hoping that that was false.
KYLE GETZ
Mm.
MIKE JOHNSON
But it sounds like it’s true.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah, that one does seem true. What did I say… “Nearly all the respondents reported using a psychoactive drug,”? So…
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah… Hm.
KYLE GETZ
That part of it does seem to be true… Yeah, I think it’s- I mean, just imagine someone that doesn’t drink. [chuckles]
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
Like, you know, they may view-
MIKE JOHNSON
[chuckles] You looked right at Derek.
KYLE GETZ
I did. [both chuckle] He’s not judging about it, so I shouldn’t have done that. But, like-
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah, he’s not. But people in Los Angeles at the live show kept trying to buy him alcohol. [laughs] And, like-
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
-he’s not being rude, he just doesn’t do that.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. Yeah. Taking a swing and a miss on that one, sorry. Don’t buy Derek a alcoholic drink. Um, but, like, you know, everyone has kind of their line. Someone may not drink and may be judgmental of people that get drunk and sloppy. Like, you know.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. Yeah. I get it.
KYLE GETZ
So I just hope that they have someone- Like, that would be a good place to have, like, a doctor on hand to, like, help with, you know, potential overdoses or, like, risk.
MIKE JOHNSON
Apparently, some years at the White Party – or White Parties – they do have doctors and other medical staff and they wear red tank tops so you can identify them, and I think that’s adorable.
KYLE GETZ
Ohhh, that is cute. Well then, do you have to be hot as a doctor in order- Because, like, if you wearin’ a tank top…
MIKE JOHNSON
You would think so. [Kyle sighs] Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
I just picture a certain body type as- them giving tank tops out to them.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
I don’t wear tank tops.
MIKE JOHNSON
Mm.
KYLE GETZ
Mm. Well, that’s the gayta.
MIKE JOHNSON
Great. Thank you for that.
KYLE GETZ
You’re welcome, Mike.
MIKE JOHNSON
…As disappointing as it was for me.
KYLE GETZ
[chuckles] Sorry. Sorry to disappoint. I mean… I want to- I wanted to give- You’re right that I want – circuit parties – to try to give them the benefit of doubt. The part that most people are there to, like, hanging out with friends and dance.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
Like, that was a little bit of a glimmer of hope that, you know, it’s not- The point is not “Oh, cool, I get to finally do some drugs now.” They’re probably doing drugs anyway. [chuckles]
MIKE JOHNSON
Right.
KYLE GETZ
If you’re- You know? So, you know, the point- there’s a little bit more of a… good, positive reason to go as your motivation than I expected. So that’s good.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah!
KYLE GETZ
I was trying to give circuit parties the benefit of doubt, because I have such a negative view of them.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
And people that go to them.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
And I don’t want to, because I know it’s based on- And having never attended one, it’s based on some of these stereotypes, which, it sounds like some are true, and…
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
I don’t know. Maybe others aren’t.
MIKE JOHNSON
There’s also the academic exercise of, like… You wanna to do drugs and fuck? Great. Go for it. Right? Like, why- It doesn’t have to be for me.
KYLE GETZ
Right.
MIKE JOHNSON
But I don’t have to, like, judge it either, right? [chuckles] So…
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. That’s true. I think this is where, like, promoting safer practices for drug use, including having, like, doctors on hand on staff, like, that’s a great, safer method or-
MIKE JOHNSON
Like sharps containers or-
KYLE GETZ
What’s that?
MIKE JOHNSON
You know, like, the things that, like, “You can put your needles in here,” or whatever.
KYLE GETZ
Oh, to put your- Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Or, like, testing things to make sure, like, there’s no fentanyl in here.
MIKE JOHNSON
Fentanyl strips, yeah.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. So, those are, like, safer things. I don’t know how much of those these things – these circuit parties – do, but that would be…
MIKE JOHNSON
They must do sumn, because, like- Oh, I did- Where did that go? I had some… data. [Kyle gasps] I know.
KYLE GETZ
You bitch.
MIKE JOHNSON
I know. [chuckles] I know. I know. …That was saying that the, uh, the number of overdoses has gone down.
KYLE GETZ
Oh.
MIKE JOHNSON
And they think, in part, because of safety initiatives.
KYLE GETZ
That’s great.
MIKE JOHNSON
Like doctors, and testing, and information, and… yeah. So…
KYLE GETZ
Hm. That’s good.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. Yeah! Umm… You ready? You ready for this?
KYLE GETZ
I’m ready for it.
MIKE JOHNSON
Alright. We’re gonna play a game called “Circuit Party or Laundry Detergent.” [Kyle chuckles] Are you ready?
KYLE GETZ
Yes.
MIKE JOHNSON
Okay, I’m going to name a thing, you’re going to tell me whether it is a brand of laundry detergent or a circuit party. Are you ready for this?
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. Let’s do it.
MIKE JOHNSON
Alright. How ‘bout…
KYLE GETZ
This is hilarious.
MIKE JOHNSON
Let’s go with “Cheer”.
KYLE GETZ
Uh, laundry detergent.
MIKE JOHNSON
Correct.
KYLE GETZ
[uncapping sound] I’m keeping track of my points.
Unknown Speaker
How about, uh… “Black & Blue”?
KYLE GETZ
Uhh, circuit party.
MIKE JOHNSON
That is a circuit party in Montreal.
KYLE GETZ
Yeaah! Oh, what’s up, Canada?
MIKE JOHNSON
Yep. Uh, how ‘bout “Nirma”?
KYLE GETZ
Nirma… Uh, laundry detergent.
MIKE JOHNSON
That is a laundry detergent? You are correct.
KYLE GETZ
Ooo. Yeaah! I’ve never heard of that laundry detergent.
MIKE JOHNSON
How ‘bout “Daz”?
KYLE GETZ
…That sounds like “dads” which is sounds like “daddy”, so I’m gonna go… circuit party.
MIKE JOHNSON
That is a brand of laundry detergent.
KYLE GETZ
Oh. “Daz”?
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. How ‘bout “Blue Ball”?
KYLE GETZ
[chuckles] I mean, that should- better be a circuit party.
MIKE JOHNSON
It’s a circuit party in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. Uh, how ‘bout “Motorball”?
KYLE GETZ
Mo- I mean, it has “ball” in it, so unless you’re trying to trick me I’m gonna say circuit party.
MIKE JOHNSON
It’s a circuit party in Detroit. How about “Biz”?
KYLE GETZ
Uh, I’m gonna go laundry detergent.
MIKE JOHNSON
That is a laundry detergent. Well done, Kyle.
KYLE GETZ
Yeaah!
MIKE JOHNSON
Uh, how about “Cherry Pop”?
KYLE GETZ
Ooh, I’m gonna say circuit party.
MIKE JOHNSON
That’s a circuit party in Washington, DC.
KYLE GETZ
That sounds like a slutty one.
MIKE JOHNSON
How about “Fwheel”?
KYLE GETZ
“Hwheel”?
MIKE JOHNSON
“Wheel”.
KYLE GETZ
Hwheel.
MIKE JOHNSON
Fwheel.
KYLE GETZ
Uhh… laundry detergent.
MIKE JOHNSON
That is a detergent.
KYLE GETZ
Ooo!
MIKE JOHNSON
Uh, “Brüt”?
KYLE GETZ
Circuit party.
MIKE JOHNSON
That is a circuit party in multiple US cities. You’re kicking ass, Kyle.
KYLE GETZ
Wow, there’s multiple- “Brüt” is popular enough of a name that multiple cities need to have it?
MIKE JOHNSON
Yep. And the “u” as an umlaut over it.
KYLE GETZ
Brüt!
MIKE JOHNSON
Brüt! [Kyle chuckles] Uh, “Bal en Blanc”?
KYLE GETZ
I’m gonna say circuit party.
MIKE JOHNSON
That’s a circuit party in Montreal.
KYLE GETZ
Ooh, Montreal again.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. Uh, let’s see… how ‘bout “Bold”?
KYLE GETZ
Uh, I’m gonna go laundry detergent.
MIKE JOHNSON
That’s a laundry detergent. “Arena”?
KYLE GETZ
Oof, that one- I’m not gettin’ any vibes from that, so I’ll go laundry detergent.
MIKE JOHNSON
That is a circuit party in Mexico.
KYLE GETZ
Aw.
MIKE JOHNSON
And “Breeze”.
KYLE GETZ
Breeze. Laundry detergent.
MIKE JOHNSON
That is a detergent. You got almost all of them right, Kyle. You only missed two!
KYLE GETZ
I only missed two.
MIKE JOHNSON
You are very good at circuit parties and/or laundry detergents.
KYLE GETZ
This… is a hilarious concept and I love it so much. [Mike chuckles] I only wanted this podcast to be Laundry Detergent or Circuit Party.
MIKE JOHNSON
[chuckles] Okay.
KYLE GETZ
That’s just what every episode is gonna be from here on it.
MIKE JOHNSON
‘Cause you’re super good at it.
KYLE GETZ
Mostly because I’m good at it, also because it’s really funny.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. [chuckles]
KYLE GETZ
Um, should I tell you what I found on Reddit?
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah! What did you find on Reddit?
KYLE GETZ
Uh, let’s ask Reddit. Two questions that I want to talk about. One is “Are circuit parties all just about sex?”
MIKE JOHNSON
No. Apparently, they’re about drugs. [laughs]
KYLE GETZ
Apparently they’re about the drugs, folks. Come on. One of the responses was “Sex and drugs,”, so…
MIKE JOHNSON
Okay, great. [chuckles]
KYLE GETZ
Someone else said that they’re… “They’re honestly what you make of them. Yes, the guys are usually significantly hotter and wear more revealing [clothing]. Yes, there’s a fuck ton of ecstasy+coke+G being done”. Maybe that’s the combination of threes – I said there was a median of three – ecstasy, coke, and G.
MIKE JOHNSON
‘Kay, great. I wouldn’t know, like, what ratios to use, or, like, when to take them, or in what order. Um, and, backing up to, like, hot dudes not wearing very much, there was a quote. Scott Larson, who manages a sports medicine center in Los Angeles, said, quote, “Circuit parties are just an excuse for guys to check out the latest in men’s underwear.” [both chuckle]
KYLE GETZ
That seems about right.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
I wonder how it feels to go there with, like, a non-gym body. Like…
MIKE JOHNSON
It probably depends on the circuit party.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
Like, I think that, like, some circuit parties cater to different audiences. There are some that would be better than others, I think.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
Like, there are some circuit parties that apparently have a bunch of dudes, like, in their 50s and 60s that go.
KYLE GETZ
Hm. That’s awesome.
MIKE JOHNSON
And that doesn’t mean that they don’t have gym bods, but it means that they are more likely, I think, to not have perfect bods.
KYLE GETZ
Or, like, the idea is, like, you’re in your 20s or 30s and, you know, have that… Uh, another answer to “Are circuit parties just about sex?”: “Got invited to 3 after orgies tho”.
MIKE JOHNSON
Great.
KYLE GETZ
Um, and this- We were talking about friends. Someone said “There’s a difference between actual friends [who] you can depend on, and friends you make while drunk partying your tits off who you literally will not see or hear from until the next time you run into each other. Both are valid tbh”. And I think that’s true. Like, I think it’s fine to have your drunk party friends.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
Like, that there’s- All friends don’t have to be personal, close, best friends for them to have a useful function and valid kind of friendship.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. I think of my friendships and relationships as being like an onion, right? Like, you’ve got the core innermost layer, but there’s layers of different quality and investment that are valid for different reasons.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
I have a hard time with, like, friends that I’ve been bad at keeping up with. I always feel guilty about that.
MIKE JOHNSON
Aw. I mean…
KYLE GETZ
I know that’s-
MIKE JOHNSON
…they’re not doing a great job of keeping up with you either then, right?
KYLE GETZ
I guess not. That’s just- Maybe that’s just life that I need to get over.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
That people just… You don’t keep in touch with every single person.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. God, I need to call my dad. [both chuckle]
KYLE GETZ
Do you want to do it now, on the air?
MIKE JOHNSON
No.
MA JOHNSON
Let’s hear that conversation, Mike.
MIKE JOHNSON
Oh, Jesus.
KYLE GETZ
Um, someone else asked “What to expect at a gay circuit party?” Um-
MIKE JOHNSON
Drugs. [chuckles] Music.
KYLE GETZ
Sex. Dancing.
MIKE JOHNSON
Sex.
KYLE GETZ
So this one said “[I’ve] only been to two”-
MIKE JOHNSON
Laundry detergent. [both chuckle]
KYLE GETZ
Oh no, I accidentally showed up to a laundry detergent.
MIKE JOHNSON
Oh, foam. Bubbles.
KYLE GETZ
Oh, yeah. Yeah. Toss that in the pool.
MIKE JOHNSON
Great.
KYLE GETZ
Splish splash, don’t drink that water. Um, “Only been to two, so not an expert”-
MIKE JOHNSON
I mean, don’t drink the water in the pool at a gay anything.
KYLE GETZ
That’s very true. [Mike chuckles] That’s a thick stew right there.
MIKE JOHNSON
Eugh.
KYLE GETZ
Um, “Only been to two, so not an expert, but my advice as a young black guy is this: 1. The atmosphere can be … fun, but mainly a house/EDM [or] sometimes techno … feel.” “Wear something open, [don’t] worry about whether … you have a ‘hot boy summer’ body… just make sure you’re in something light and breathable [because] it can get hot [as fuck].”
MIKE JOHNSON
Great.
KYLE GETZ
That kind of makes sense, even though I would never do that.
MIKE JOHNSON
You can wear a skirt, Kyle.
KYLE GETZ
Oh, that’s true.
MIKE JOHNSON
That’s breezy. You’ve mentioned that is like a refreshing feeling. [chuckles]
KYLE GETZ
It’s so nice to feel the breeze on your underpants. Um, “3. [I] haven’t been to one that includes drinks in the price, it will be … cheaper to buy beforehand and pregame. The drinks [there] are wildly expensive”. So, let’s see… “You may … want to bring … water … because its easy to get dehydrated”. Number four, “pack … spare condom[s] … or make sure to start prep at least a week before, [because] there will be a decent amount of people looking for sex on the dance floor.”
MIKE JOHNSON
Hold, please. I don’t think that’s how PrEP is supposed to work. I don’t think starting and stopping PrEP, like, on your own- Unless that’s what your doctor is saying to do, don’t- That’s not great.
KYLE GETZ
But don’t you, like, start PrEP- Isn’t it two weeks that it takes to be effective?
MIKE JOHNSON
This conversation is illustrating the point, Kyle. Like, I don’t- I don’t- I don’t know. I think that you’re right, I think that it takes a while for it to get to maximum efficacy. I also don’t know if starting and stopping and starting and stopping is approved or allowed. Like, it might be bad.
KYLE GETZ
Well, you can do the PEP- use it as PEP.
MIKE JOHNSON
You can use it as PEP. That’s true.
KYLE GETZ
So, anyway, do whatever your doctor recommends but get on your PrEP beforehand so that you can have sex there.
MIKE JOHNSON
I guess we should do the, like, “The more you know,” rainbow moment of, like, PEP is “Post-Exposure Prophylaxis”. So, PrEP is “Pre-Exposure Prophylaxis” so, that, you take it every day and that prevents you from getting… uh, seroconverting if you are exposed. And then, Post-Exposure Prophylaxis is you have had an exposure of some kind but you weren’t on PrEP so you take a larger dose of PrEP medications after the fact to prevent it.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. And usually you want to start your PEP within 72 hours of exposure. So, like, this is one of those things where you need to be- Like, you go to an ER or urgent care or something to get a doctor to prescribe it right away.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yep. To make, like, a pregnancy- [chuckles] To make a- [chuckles] To make it about pregnancy, like, well, PrEP is like being on the pill and PEP is like the morning after pill.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. Yeah, totally.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
That’s a good- I think that’s a great way of thinking about it. Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
Also, like… not a fetus. [laughs]
KYLE GETZ
Not a fetus. Not even a little bit. But I still- It’s a good metaphor.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. Great.
KYLE GETZ
Why have you not been to circuit party ever, Mike?
MIKE JOHNSON
Umm… well, first, I’ve not been invited.
KYLE GETZ
Oh.
MIKE JOHNSON
I don’t think I have a lot of friends who are in that kind of a scene. I don’t think I would want to go by myself, in part because of my, like, weird, negative, judgy feelings about them and what goes on there. Umm… In fact, I’m going through the exercise now of thinking, if I were to be invited to one, if somebody was like “Hey, Mike, I want to go to… Decadence,” I don’t know… would I?
KYLE GETZ
Hm.
MIKE JOHNSON
Mm, probably? …But probably last year when I felt better about my body. [both chuckle]
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
Eh. How ‘bout you?
KYLE GETZ
Yeah, I also- Well, I’ve not been invited but I also don’t have friends that go.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
Um, so it’s not like it’s a- I feel like some group of friends are just like… they go to all of these kinds of events and it’s just part of their friendship group. So, I just don’t have circuit party friends.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
I don’t think I even know anyone who would be like the circuit party type of gay. I feel like that- like, this is a type of gay, is the circuit party gay.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
And I don’t think I’m friends with-
MIKE JOHNSON
“Circuit queens”, right? That’s- Got the name.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Um, if I were invited I probably would not go to one.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
I would just f- I think- I already feel uncomfortable about my body, much less in a room full of shirtless dudes that all have great gym bodies. I think it would be recipe for making me feel really bad about myself.
MIKE JOHNSON
Mmm. Mmm. Mm.
KYLE GETZ
Maybe they’re- You’re right that maybe there’re a variety of parties. Maybe if there was, like, a more, like, a bear party or a, like, “We’re regular human,” kind of circuit party. I don’t know if that- if any of them are known for that, but if there was one that was like- What?
MIKE JOHNSON
The Gayish- We’re gonna start a circuit party called “Regular Human”
KYLE GETZ
Regular- [both chuckle] “Come on down to Regular Human, where you don’t have to have gym body just to fit in. You can fit in just the way you are. Come on, Regular Body.”
MIKE JOHNSON
Regular Human Ball.
KYLE GETZ
Regular Human- The Regular Human Ball, and tickets are $20.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. [laughs] You don’t get anything.
KYLE GETZ
You get nothing for that. You just get the privilege of being there. And then drinks are $100 each. Bring your own drugs. BYOD.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
Um, yeah, I- I don’t know. I have said, like, I think circuit parties are my worst nightmare.
MIKE JOHNSON
Mm. Mhm.
KYLE GETZ
Like, being in that kind of environment. I judge myself based on how I look and compare myself to other people just walking down the street, just being at a gay bar… like, looking at Instagram. You know. These, I feel like, are also, like, Instagram gays too, you know?
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
Like, that feels like there’s an overlap between those. And I feel a little bit bad that I have this judgment of circuit parties, but I don’t know…. maybe people are-
MIKE JOHNSON
Why do you think you feel bad?
KYLE GETZ
Because maybe they’re super accepting, and maybe they don’t care, and maybe, even though they have hot bodies, they don’t care if everyone has the same kind of body. And maybe some people will like the way I look just fine and I’m being too, you know, and my judgement of them is really just a judgment of myself and not actually a judgement of the circuit party itself.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
So it’s hard to unpack what’s the circuit party and what’s just me and my own feelings about myself.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. Makes sense. Someone on Instagram- Did you see this comment posted- Like the one on the left, which was me, “Oh, he’s actually kind of cute. The way he described himself, I thought he was, like, big and gross.”
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
[chuckles] So, cool. Thanks.
MIKE JOHNSON
[chuckles] Great.
KYLE GETZ
Thanks for that comment. Appreciate it, that I’m not as big and gross as I make myself out to be.
MIKE JOHNSON
Oh, you’re definitely not, just so you know.
KYLE GETZ
Thanks.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
Thanks, man.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
Appreciate it.
MIKE JOHNSON
Um also, I don’t like loud noises.
KYLE GETZ
Mmm.
MIKE JOHNSON
I don’t- Like, my personal definition of hell would be “Not being able to have a conversation with people.” Those friends that you go to a circuit party with, I would want to talk to them, and [yelling] I’d have to yell. Fuck. Goddamn. [speaking] You know what I mean?
KYLE GETZ
[chuckles] Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think that’s just, like… we’re a certain age where going to loud [imitates pulsating club music] clubs just are so much- so less appealing than it used to be at one point in my life.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
I hate that, just yelling over music trying to say anything. And I don’t really, like, go out and dance anymore.
MIKE JOHNSON
Right. Right.
KYLE GETZ
Like, I used to do that. Like, that made a little bit more sense when you would just “I’m gonna pound some alcohol,” and then go on the dance floor and dance.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
Like, that kind of club environment makes more sense then.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.
KYLE GETZ
Mm.
MIKE JOHNSON
Did we do it?
KYLE GETZ
Yeah, we did somethin’.
MIKE JOHNSON
We talked about circuit parties?
KYLE GETZ
We talked about certain parties. Sorry, if you’re a circuit party gay. Sorry if we judged you.
MIKE JOHNSON
Eh. Let us know. Let us know what we got wrong.
KYLE GETZ
Oh, yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
Um, I love hate mail.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah, send it to Mike.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah, send it to me.
KYLE GETZ
Care of Mike Johnson.
MIKE JOHNSON
Should we- Should we take a circuit break?
KYLE GETZ
Circuit break!
MIKE JOHNSON
Circuit breaker.
KYLE GETZ
[imitates pulsing music] Circuit breaker. Combo breaker.
MIKE JOHNSON
[chuckles] Let’s take a break.
[Break music plays, sung by MIKE JOHNSON]
This is the part where Mike and Kyle take a break!
MIKE JOHNSON
So, are we back?
KYLE GETZ
We’re back!
MIKE JOHNSON
We’re back!
KYLE GETZ
We’re gonna do our Gayest & Straightest.
MIKE JOHNSON
We’re gonna do our Gayest & Straightest but, first…
KYLE GETZ
Hey, everyone.
MIKE JOHNSON
Hey, everyone.
KYLE GETZ
Hey, friends.
MIKE JOHNSON
Listen up, you dirty fuckers.
KYLE GETZ
Beautiful people.
MIKE JOHNSON
You… shut up. Don’t listen to Kyle. You’re bad, terrible, awful people, and your only potential path to redemption is to buy tickets for our Houston show.
KYLE GETZ
Our Houston show, it’s our last show. It is on October 15th. It is at noon at KIKI in Montrose. We’re really excited about it, so I hope you come out. I hope you come from Dallas, I hope you come from Austin, I hope you come out to see us.
MIKE JOHNSON
And, if you don’t, I will never speak to you again.
KYLE GETZ
Yeaah.
MIKE JOHNSON
Forever. No.
KYLE GETZ
That’ll make doing this podcast very challenging, so you have to come out and see us. We would love to see you there.
MIKE JOHNSON
That’s right.
KYLE GETZ
Go to gayishpodcast.com/live.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yes. Do it, right now… fuckers. Local Gay Bar Review!
KYLE GETZ
Ooo.
MIKE JOHNSON
Hurray!
KYLE GETZ
Hurray.
MIKE JOHNSON
Uh, I’m going to talk to you about this adorable place called Cranberry…
KYLE GETZ
Cranberry.
MIKE JOHNSON
…in Zurich, Switzerland. It was adorable. Uh, fun, flirty bartenders. Which, like, there was no language barrier in Switzerland basically. It’s just, like, that’s a part of the world where, like, everybody speaks like eight languages. It’s adorable, but also kind of annoying because, like, all I wanted to do was practice my German and, like, nobody was having that. Um, was there with Marcy and Sarah when I was traveling for work, and when we got to Zurich there was actually a Zurich fest going on, which is this… every three years the city of Zurich shuts down and turns into a festival along the river. And um, we just happened- We did not plan it, or time it, or even know it. Zurich- Züri Fäscht was happening when we got there. So, they didn’t have any seating and they had a limited menu, so I didn’t really get the full Cranberry experience, but what I did do there I very much enjoyed. Uh, 3 dildos.
KYLE GETZ
3 dildos.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
Good place to go.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah, absolutely.
KYLE GETZ
Um, should we do our contact info.
MIKE JOHNSON
Okay. Our website is gayishpodcast.com.
KYLE GETZ
We are on socials, on Instagram, @gayishpodcast.
MIKE JOHNSON
Our hotline, you can send us text messages or leave us voicemails, is 5855-Gayish. That’s 585-542-9474. Standard rates apply.
KYLE GETZ
Our email is gayishpodcast@gmail.com.
MIKE JOHNSON
And our physical mailing address is Post Office Box 19882 Seattle, Washington 98109. Gayest & Straightest.
KYLE GETZ
Gayest & Straightest.
MIKE JOHNSON
Alright. You go.
KYLE GETZ
Okay. My gayest is: listening to the new Kim Petras album. I- What?
MIKE JOHNSON
Gaaaay.
KYLE GETZ
Gay. That’s pretty gay. [Mike chuckles] The song that was just playing before we started recording was Treat Me Like a Ho, so there you go.
MIKE JOHNSON
Well, I try my best.
KYLE GETZ
Thanks, honey. [both chuckle] Um, my straightest is: not showering or doing my hair all weekend.
MIKE JOHNSON
Boy, that was gonna be mine.
KYLE GETZ
Oh, sorry. [Mike laughs] I’m glad I got in there first. It can be yours too. We can both be straight in the same way.
MIKE JOHNSON
Okay.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. What about you?
MIKE JOHNSON
Uh, well, the gayest thing about me this week is: I wore my “Your bullshit is bullshit” shirt accidentally to work, a work meeting. [Kyle gasps] So I had to explain to somebody the whole, like, “Oh, it’s a thing that I say on the podcast,” blah blah blah. But, like, just, yeah.
KYLE GETZ
Whoops.
MIKE JOHNSON
Whoops. [Kyle chuckles] I have a shirt that says “Your bullshit is bullshit” that my gay-ass podcast-
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
Anyway. Anyway, the straightest thing about me this week is: last night, drunk Mike thought it would be a good idea to just pour hot sauce in his mouth. [Kyle gasps] You remember that?
KYLE GETZ
No.
MIKE JOHNSON
You were there.
KYLE GETZ
I don’t remember you doing that.
MIKE JOHNSON
I, like, did- I was, like-
KYLE GETZ
Oh, was that when I put it on my pizza?
MIKE JOHNSON
Yes!
KYLE GETZ
Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
And you were like “What are you doing!?” and I was like “Just tasting it, I guess?” I don’t know. But I jus- It just feels like just, like, pouring hot sauce in your mouth is like a straight guy thing.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah, like someone dared you at a frat party.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. Um, okay, and now a listener’s Gayest & Straightest. This week, we have a voicemail, which, I keep telling y’all, if you want to get yours on the air the best thing to do is send us a voicemail because we will probably play it.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
BRANDON PETTIGREW [voicemail]
Okay, we’re gonna try this again. Hello there, fucking Kyle. Please disregard the last message I sent to you because I’ve messed it up completely and then I didn’t know how to restart. So, anyway, I was gonna submit me a Gayest & Straightest. And I don’t know if I said my name but it’s Brandon Pettigrew, your little Discord person and a happy black man that people usually see every once in a while doing stuff. Um, but my gayest this week is, um: my boyfriend of 8 years proposed to me last night. And yeah, so that was pretty great. And so now I’m an engaged little man, doing things, so I’m gonna try to be happy and stuff. Um, now my straightest also is involved with this engagement as well, because I got engaged in the middle of us laying in bed [chuckles] watching Silent Library. So, if you ever watched MTV back in the early 2000s, Silent Library was just a jam. And he’s never seen the show before, so I introduced it to him. And so, yeah. And if you’ve seen that show, it’s pretty straight. So, uh, yeah, so that was my thing. And, uh, thank y’all for listening and… yeah. And happy 350th, whenever that comes up. I’ll try to be there for the live stream. Hello. Goodbye.
MIKE JOHNSON
Brandon Pettigrew, you’re adorable. Thank you for being adorable.
KYLE GETZ
Thanks, Brandon.
MIKE JOHNSON
And congratulations on the engagement, that’s fucking beautiful.
KYLE GETZ
That’s amazing. Yeah, congrats.
MIKE JOHNSON
I wish- I wish, when we all had drinks together in Seattle, that we could have known that was the future you were going to have, because maybe I would have tried harder? No, I don’t- [both laugh]
KYLE GETZ
Yeah, let us know if you’re going to have had gotten engaged in the future.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
So that we know whether to care about your significant other.
MIKE JOHNSON
Right. [both chuckle] Um… I guess that’s it?
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
We did it?
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
And thank you to all the circuit queens!
KYLE GETZ
Yeah! Sorry for this episode. I hope we didn’t screw it up or say things that were untrue.
MIKE JOHNSON
And thank you to that Scott Larson person, who said that circuit parties were about men’s underwear. And, um, thank you to everybody that listens.
KYLE GETZ
And thank you to underwear.
MIKE JOHNSON
Thank you- Thank you underwear.
KYLE GETZ
Thank you underwear. Uncredited for so much achievements. [chuckles]
MIKE JOHNSON
The uns- The unthong hero. [both chuckle]
KYLE GETZ
Okay. And, also, I want to thank the following Super Gap Bridgers: Kit Oliver, Andrew Bugbee, William Bryant, Christopher M, John Crawley, Stephen Portch, Joh Stoessel, Harry Shaw, Josh Copeland, Jonathan Montañez, Waddu, Forrest Nail, Patrick Martin, James Barrow, Steve Douglas, Explosive Lasagna, Michael Cubbington, Just Jamie, Kevin Henderson, Tomas B, Timothy Saura, DustySands, AE Coleman, Chris Khachatourians, and Jerome York. Thank you for your support.
MIKE JOHNSON
Thank you for your money! [Kyle chuckles] That is it. This has been Gayish. From the Chris Khachatourians studios, I’m Mike Johnson.
KYLE GETZ
I’m Kyle Getz. Until next week, be butch, be fabulous, be you. See ya.
MIKE JOHNSON
See you next week.
[Outro music plays, instrumental]
MIKE JOHNSON
Fuck boys, get money.
KYLE GETZ
Fuck boys, get money, money.
MIKE JOHNSON
Is it “Fuckboys get money,” or two separate activities that I’m going to participate in: “I’m going to fuck boys, and I’m going to get money,”?
KYLE GETZ
Or is it “Fuck boys, get money.”
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. This is a real- It’s deep.
KYLE GETZ
It’s deep. So many layers.
MIKE JOHNSON
[chuckles] Oh, Jesus Christ, Kyle.
[Transcriptionist: C Dixon, CMDixonWork@gmail.com]
Does Kylie Minogue deserve her gay icon status? From Pride48’s final livestreaming weekend, Mike and Kyle talk about the worldwide pop sensation herself, Kylie (Minogue, not Jenner).
In this episode: Main Topic (Kylie Minogue)- 4:54 || Gayest & Straightest- 53:03
Come see us live in Houston! Visit www.gayishpodcast.com/live for tour dates, details and tickets. We can’t wait to see you!
On the Patreon bonus segment, Mike share more LGBTQ firsts from soap operas around the world. If you want to support our show while getting ad-free episodes a day early, go to www.patreon.com/gayishpodcast.
FULL EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
INTRO MUSIC [MIKE JOHNSON SINGING]
When you know that you are queer but your favorite drink is beer, that’s Gayish. You can bottom without stopping but you can’t stand going shopping, that’s Gayish. Oh, Gayish. You’re probably Gayish. Oh life’s just too short for narrow stereotypes. Oh, it’s Gayish. We’re all so Gayish. It’s Gayish with Mike and Kyle.
MIKE JOHNSON
Hello, everyone in the podcast universe. This is Gayish.
KYLE GETZ
The podcast where, every time God closes a mouth, he opens a butthole.
MIKE JOHNSON
Aww!
KYLE GETZ
[chuckles] I like that you saw that as romantic.
MIKE JOHNSON
It is. It is.
KYLE GETZ
It is very romantic.
MIKE JOHNSON
I’m Mike Johnson.
KYLE GETZ
I’m Kyle Getz.
MIKE JOHNSON
And we’re here to bridge the gap between sexuality and actuality. And, today…
KYLE GETZ
Today…
MIKE JOHNSON
Today…
KYLE GETZ
To-day…
MIKE JOHNSON
Today…
KYLE GETZ
[singing] Today, today, I feel it in my bones. Today, today…
MIKE JOHNSON
[chuckles] Oh no. …We’re gonna talk about Kylie Minogue.
KYLE GETZ
Yes!
MIKE JOHNSON
Um, but first…
KYLE GETZ
But first…
MIKE JOHNSON
Hi, Pride48!
KYLE GETZ
Hi, Pride48. We’re doing this live on Pride48 so, if you’re listening live, “Hi,” to everyone in the chatroom.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeaaah! We will be following the chatroom in Discord. Pride48 has their own Discord server, and that’s what we’ll be lookin’ at. Um, but just really quickly: this has been a thing that we’ve been doing for a while. So, Pride48 is LGBT and LGBT-friendly podcasts, and this is the very last Live Streaming Weekend, and we’ve met some truly awesome people over the years and have been very, very glad to be involved, and um, it all started with Watersports.
KYLE GETZ
[chuckles] Was that our first Pride48?
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah, that was that was our first Pride48. On June 28th 2018, we participated in our first Pride48 event and that’s episode 73, and we did watersports.
KYLE GETZ
Wow, back in the two-digits.
MIKE JOHNSON
You’re welcome. [both chuckle] Um, yeah. Also…
KYLE GETZ
Also…
MIKE JOHNSON
…if you’re a Pride48er, hopefully you’ve heard our show before. If not, you’re probably taffy. But uh, what you want to do is think about your Gayest & Straightest. So, every episode we do our Gayest & Straightest of the week, which is the stereotypically gayest and stereotypically straightest thing about us each week, just to show that there’s a little bit of column A and a little bit of column B for everyone. Um, but we want to take some from specifically the Pride48 audience. So get your Gayest & Straightests in to us in the Discord chat and we’ll share some at the end of the episode.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah, absolutely.
MIKE JOHNSON
Um… great. Uh, feedback and corrections.
KYLE GETZ
Ooo.
MIKE JOHNSON
Oh, first of all, Gary just asked in the chat “What was the Gayish word in 2019 in NOLA?” So, in 2018, our first one, live in NOLA, we did “handjobs”. And then in 2019… I remember it well because of how red I turned…
KYLE GETZ
Yes.
MIKE JOHNSON
…we did poppers.
KYLE GETZ
Poppers.
MIKE JOHNSON
Fucking Dan brought a selection of poppers and I basically lost my shit. [Kyle chuckles] Um, so, okay…
KYLE GETZ
Okay…
MIKE JOHNSON
Feedback and corrections. So, we got this lovely letter I just wanted to share really quickly.
KYLE GETZ
Okay.
MIKE JOHNSON
“Dear Mike and Kyle,” uh, this is about our Q&A episode, 350, just a couple of weeks ago, “your answer to the question about gay men over 50 who married women and stayed closeted was spot on. I am precisely that sort of gay man, now 65 years of age. When I was a young adult there was no internet, no gay characters on TV, and very few resources for anyone who didn’t fit the straight mold. My attempts to come out were awkward and clumsy and it was easy to go back into the closet and pass for straight. We all have been on our own paths. And as long as we are kind and respectful to each other, there’s no need to be critical of anyone whose path is different. Now we have lots of resources, positive representation in the media, and podcasts. Gayish is one of my resources to help me remember who I am. My eyes welled with tears when I heard Kyle say ‘There’s always time to be your authentic self.’ Well done, guys. Gordon.”
KYLE GETZ
Aw. Thanks, Gordon.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. Thanks, Gordon.
KYLE GETZ
That’s a sweet email.
MIKE JOHNSON
I’m glad that we could be your weekly dose of faggotry.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. [both chuckle] You gotta get it somewhere, might as well be us.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. Exactly right. Um, so we have to be off of this bitch by the end of the hour or they’re gonna cut us off, so we’re not gonna do the news this week. Or, I’ll find a different way to get the news out maybe.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
Um, but we’re just gonna skip that part and go right to “thank you”s to Patreon.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah! So, I want to thank the following Patreon members: Jesse O’Connell, Eli, Caileigh Adams… “Caileigh”? [like “KAY-lee”] I think I’m saying that right. …Aaron Foley, J. Chang-Tablada… [like “TAB-luh-duh”]
MIKE JOHNSON
Ooh. Nailed that one. [chuckles]
KYLE GETZ
I don’t know. I even said it. I said that one… Tablada. Anyway, I said that ahead of time and didn’t- still fucked it up. …And Dylan Dunaway. Thank you so much for your support. You can support us by going to patreon.com/gayishpodcast.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeaah! Thanks for your money.
KYLE GETZ
Yep.
MIKE JOHNSON
[chuckles] Especially because it paid for us to go to LA last weekend, which was a lot of fun.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. We’ve been doing live shows, including last week’s LA show, yeah, which was awesome.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
Thanks to everyone who came out to that.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeaaah! It was great.
KYLE GETZ
But now…
MIKE JOHNSON
But now…
KYLE GETZ
We’re gonna talk about…
MIKE JOHNSON
You wanna talk about Kylie?
KYLE GETZ
…Kylie Minogue!
MIKE JOHNSON
Kylie Minogue.
KYLE GETZ
The Ky- Is she “the” Kylie? Is she Kylie enough that we can say “Kylie” and it counts as..?
MIKE JOHNSON
Her Wikipedia article says that she goes by the mononym of “Kylie” from time to time.
KYLE GETZ
Okay.
MIKE JOHNSON
So, Wikipedia, you can take that shit to the bank. But also, and I think this is the most important: there’s other Kylies. Kylie Jenner, I think, is like, you know, in the mix there.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
But kylie.com is Kylie Minogue. So she- Early domain parker maybe, but I think that that just- She peed on that tree; it’s hers.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. She was born, like, two generations before Kylie Jenner was born. So of cour- Yeah, it makes sense she got that first.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
But there is a generation of people for whom “Kylie” might be Kylie Jenner.
MIKE JOHNSON
…Yeah… They don’t listen to our show. [both laugh] And they certainly don’t listen to Pride48. [laughs]
KYLE GETZ
That’s very true.
MIKE JOHNSON
Um, well, okay, so, predictably, I’m gonna talk to you about the history of Kylie Minogue.
KYLE GETZ
Sure.
MIKE JOHNSON
…By which I just mean “some basic biographical information”.
KYLE GETZ
Okay.
MIKE JOHNSON
We strategically asked Adam to give us the time slot that we have this year so that Australia is asleep and can’t hate mail us live.
KYLE GETZ
Oh, that was really smart, because they’re not gonna like this one I’m sure. We didn’t mention… Gap Bridger Samuel Kohler requested this as his episode topic.
MIKE JOHNSON
That’s right, I forgot. This isn’t our fault.
KYLE GETZ
Yes. Yes. [Mike laughs] And I think he knew exactly what he was asking for when he asked for it. Also his birthday’s coming up on September 29th, so happy birthday.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeaaah! Happy birthday, Samuel Kohler. Yeah. In case you don’t know, the people at our highest level of support, after they’ve been doing it for a few months, then we’ll sit down with them and they get to produce their own episode idea. And he came to us with this idea a long time ago. So, she released Padam Padam back in June- or, May. The new album was announced in May, and all of it was for Kylie’s 55th birthday. And so he’s been chomping at the bit ever since then, like even before then, leading up to that. I think we talked to him in like March or something.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah, we talked to him a while ago. But Todd wanted to time it out with the episode release.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yep.
KYLE GETZ
The album release.
MIKE JOHNSON
Well uh, this album release – this new album that’s coming out – is her 16th studio album.
KYLE GETZ
Damn.
MIKE JOHNSON
And it’s called “Tension”… which is what I’m feeling right now. [both chuckle]
KYLE GETZ
The single from that album just came out recently, and you heard it for the first time when I played it for you.
MIKE JOHNSON
Oh yeah. There was- There was music in the background when I was [both chuckle] prancing around the kitchen.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah, that was Kylie Minogue. Yep.
MIKE JOHNSON
Okay, great.
KYLE GETZ
Yep.
MIKE JOHNSON
Well, okay, so the history of Kylie- Uh, her name is Kylie Ann Minogue, that is on her birth certificate. So this is not- This is not an invention, you know? Uh, but she was born at Bethlehem Hospital, in Caulfield South – which is a suburb of Melbourne, Victoria, Australia – May 28th 1968. So she turned 55 this year, which is crazy to me. I guess I sort of knew in the back of my head that she’d, like, been around a while and, like- I- Just, 55 blew me away, because she looks fucking fantastic.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. She looks incredible.
MIKE JOHNSON
Uh, and is, like, a sex symbol and has been for a while.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
And, um, I just think it’s really great to have, like, a woman of a certain age, like, kick as much ass as she does.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. Absolutely.
MIKE JOHNSON
Um, anyway, her dad was Ronald Charles Minogue, who was a car company accountant.
KYLE GETZ
Ohh.
MIKE JOHNSON
And his wife, Carol Ann, née Jones- Which, that just came up on Throwing Down the hour before us. “Née” just means “maiden name”, y’all. Um, but she was a former ballet dancer. Then they moved to Australia in 1958 as part of an assisted migration scheme. So, you know, Australia is basically giant England…
KYLE GETZ
[laughs] Oh no.
MIKE JOHNSON
…with spiders.
KYLE GETZ
And kangaroos.
MIKE JOHNSON
[chuckles] Yeah. But they had been putting people on boats and sending them to Australia for a really long time: quite famously, prisoners, way back in the day. But then, later on, they were actively encouraging people from the UK to move to Australia and she was part of that. On the same boat with them was the Gibb family.
KYLE GETZ
I don’t know who that is.
MIKE JOHNSON
The Bee Gees, Kyle! The Bee Gees.
KYLE GETZ
Ohh.
MIKE JOHNSON
The other Australian band some people know. [both chuckle] Um, she’s the eldest of three children. So, she has a brother named Brendan who is a news cameraman, and her sister Dannii… [said normally] D- Dannii. [like “duhn-EYE”]
KYLE GETZ
No, I think it’s “Dannii”. [said normally]
MIKE JOHNSON
Da-n-n-i-i.
KYLE GETZ
[chuckles] Dann-i-ee.
MIKE JOHNSON
It’s two Ns, two Is. D-A-N-N-I-I Minogue. Uh, she’s an actress, singer, and a television host. So, way back in the day, a 10-year-old Kylie went with her sister da-n-n-i-i to an edition- an audition that their aunt Suzette put together for them. And the producer said “Nah, Dannii’s too young. Ixnay on that,” but an Australian show picked her up. She had a minor role in the soap opera The Sullivans in 1979. So, that’s when her, like, public, public, public career gets going as a 10-year-old. So, she’s- She probably doesn’t remember ever not doing this.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. That’s crazy to me, people that have been in the limelight for their entire lives. Like, that just seems impossible to be a regular human…
MIKE JOHNSON
Right?
KYLE GETZ
…when that’s been your life.
MIKE JOHNSON
I can’t even do it.
KYLE GETZ
I know! [Mike laughs] Yeah. Same.
MIKE JOHNSON
So then, she later was- She had another small role in another soap opera called Skyways and then she was cast in 1985 in a lead role in the television series The Henderson Kids. I guess she, like, cut school to go do The Henderson Kids, which her mom was pissed about. But she thought that she needed the independence to make it into the entertainment industry, uh, and it didn’t go so great. [Kyle gasps] So, one of her costars, Nadine Garner, said that she was, quote, “fragile”, because producers yelled at her for forgetting her lines and she would often cry on set.
KYLE GETZ
Oh my God. If someone yells at me I’m gonna go cry off stage two.
MIKE JOHNSON
Well, and she’s, like, 15, 16 years old at this phase? Like, what- Like, don’t- Don’t yell at teenagers, you dickbags.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
Um, but, so, one of her biographies says that removing her from that show turned out maybe to be the best thing ever for her career, because she started thinking about a career in music at that stage. She made a demo tape for the producers of a weekly music program called Young Talent Time, which featured Da-n-n-i-i as a regular performer. [Kyle groans quietly] Dannii. I’ll stop. [both chuckle] Or will I?
KYLE GETZ
Or will you?
MIKE JOHNSON
Um… featured her sister Dannii as a regular performer, so she was like “Maybe I’ll give this a shot too.” Um, but- So, she gave her first singing performance on TV in ‘85. But she was not invited to join the cast. But then her, like, big breakout, I suppose, is the soap opera Neighbours, which is also the name of a gay bar here in Seattle. [chuckles]
KYLE GETZ
Is that still open?
MIKE JOHNSON
I think so? It looked kind of open.
KYLE GETZ
Okay.
MIKE JOHNSON
It also looked like maybe a bunch of straight people… in it now.
KYLE GETZ
Oh, have the straight people heard about it and so now they get to take over and..?
MIKE JOHNSON
I guess. I don’t know. I don’t know. We should go.
KYLE GETZ
Really?
MIKE JOHNSON
We should check it out.
KYLE GETZ
Okay.
MIKE JOHNSON
Anyway, okay, so, in 1986 she got cast as Charlene Mitchell, who was a schoolgirl, kind of a tomboy, that turned garage mechanic. [Kyle chuckles] And uh, I’m gonna talk about soap operas a lot later in the show, so I’m gonna sort of gloss over that whole thing.
KYLE GETZ
Okay.
MIKE JOHNSON
That show, Neighbours, is still on TV. They do so many episodes. It’s like 200-and-something episodes a year because it’s most days of the week. And it’s been on for… whatever that math is… 30-something years?
KYLE GETZ
Wow.
MIKE JOHNSON
Anyway. Um, so, her debut single in Australia for music – her musical career – was July 13th of 1987. She was on this show, Neighbours. It had done really, really well, one episode in particular that I’ll talk about later, and The Loco-Motion was her debut single and it was released basically at the same time that this big episode happened. So it was just like… everything was coming up Kylie, in 1987. [Kyle chuckles] So then her self-titled debut album, Kylie, was released in July of 1988, and it’s been 15 more albums since then. She’s just had this insane career. What’s interesting is that she was never as big in the United States as she was in the Commonwealth countries, meaning UK, Canada, Australia… and elsewhere in Europe also. She just never quite took off here in the same way. The one exception being: Can’t Get You Out of My Head, which can’t get out of my head.
KYLE GETZ
That song is- I don’t-
MIKE JOHNSON
What? You don’t like it?
KYLE GETZ
I don’t love it. I don’t know.
MIKE JOHNSON
Really? Oh my god!
KYLE GETZ
It’s fine. It’s fine. I don’t know. That was the first time I had heard of her, because I was born in ‘86 so, like, I’m not-
MIKE JOHNSON
Right.
KYLE GETZ
You know. So that was the first I had heard of her, and it was like “This song is… fine.”
MIKE JOHNSON
[to the tune of the song] Na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na. It’s really good.
KYLE GETZ
Nyeh.
MIKE JOHNSON
It’s so catchy.
KYLE GETZ
Eh.
MIKE JOHNSON
And… eh, kind of. [Kyle chuckles] I think I agree.
KYLE GETZ
But I like meh music, so that shouldn’t- it should be right up my alley, but…
MIKE JOHNSON
It just- I mean, that is one of those songs that can and will, at any given moment, be played at a gay bar that you’re at… right?
KYLE GETZ
Yeah, absolutely.
MIKE JOHNSON
nd it still, like, is the call of our people, Kyle. [Kyle chuckles] Uh, so, let’s see…
KYLE GETZ
But you’re right that she is massive in other countries. Like, worldwide she is huge, and for some reason it just- she doesn’t have- She has- She absolutely has fame here and people know her here, but it’s just not at the scale, I think, that other countries have her.
MIKE JOHNSON
Right. Yep, absolutely. Um, I did not know this about her until, like, looking at her bio for the episode, but apparently in May of 2005 she had breast cancer. And, um, she had a lumpectomy and did a bunch of chemo while she was touring.
KYLE GETZ
Wow.
MIKE JOHNSON
She had to finish her chemo in France for some reason. Like, the tour- Like, I don’t know how that works. I can’t even get in to see my doctor – the same doctor – two weeks in a row, much less, like, hand off my chemo treatment to another country, but…
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. You don’t pause your tour for your chemo treatment? That’s- That’s impressive.
MIKE JOHNSON
Uh, she did, in interviews later, say that she was sort of interested in what they started calling the “Kylie effect”, which we’ve seen other celebrities go through something similar, of, like, “Oh, Kylie Minogue had breast cancer? Maybe I’ll get my tits checked.” You know?
MIKE JOHNSON
And it just was a- There was an uptick in women, in countries where she’s popular, getting mammograms.
KYLE GETZ
That’s great.
MIKE JOHNSON
…And checking out for breast cancer. Uh, let’s see… So, in June of 2023, she became the only female artist to reach the top 10 of the UK Singles Chart in the 80s, 90s, 00s, teens, and 20s…
KYLE GETZ
Wow.
MIKE JOHNSON
…and that’s because Padam Padam was instantly a top 10 hit in the UK. Um, she also does a bunch of charity work, a bunch of philanthropic work. She’s a supporter of amfAR, which is the Foundation for AIDS Research. She hosts the amfAR Inspiration Gala in Los Angeles- or, hosted it in 2010. She also attended amfAR fundraising benefits in Cannes, and performed at galas for the charity in São Paulo and Hong Kong. So, I know that that’s maybe a segue for what you’re going to talk about next, but she’s done a lot of- a lot of work in raising money for HIV/AIDS, which predominantly affects gay people.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah, yeah. So, what I like to do is I like to look into why are they a gay icon, what about them, and, kinda, do they deserve to be? And what is it about them? Why is it- I think there’s this question that I keep having, is like “Why do we have this reverence for these straight women?” It just- That’s just part of gay culture.
MIKE JOHNSON
Like, GLAAD has the Vanguard Award – right? – which we’ve joked on the show before is just the “Who did the gays love this year?” award.
KYLE GETZ
Yes. Yes. [chuckles]
MIKE JOHNSON
Right?
KYLE GETZ
Yeah, absolutely. They give it out to the “Straight Ally of the Year” or whatever. So, um, here’s what I- It seemed like she was an icon – a gay icon – the moment she started. In the 90s was the Rhythm of Love album, which was a dance album. The single Better the Devil You Know… uh, London’s G-A-Y – Do you say “G-A-Y”, or “Gay”? – nightclub…
MIKE JOHNSON
“G-A-Y”, I think.
KYLE GETZ
Okay. G-
MIKE JOHNSON
I went there!
KYLE GETZ
You did?
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. There’s a picture of me making a Y under the G-A-Y sign.
KYLE GETZ
Oh, cute!
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
Um, but that nightclub considers Better the Devil You Know to be its ultimate anthem. There was a list on Digg that had the best LGBTQ pride songs and it was ranked number six on the list, just behind I Will Survive.
MIKE JOHNSON
Oh!
KYLE GETZ
So, I didn’t realize that. It is up there with pride songs that are just universally loved and adored.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. I Will survive and It’s Raining Men for sure.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
What else?
KYLE GETZ
I’m Coming Out.
MIKE JOHNSON
I’m Coming Out, yeah. Like, company with those songs.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
Like- Okay. Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah, absolutely. Um, also in the 90s, bars started doing Kylie nights.
MIKE JOHNSON
Great.
KYLE GETZ
And this is what Kylie said about it: quote, “I think it was 1990 and I was in Sydney and there was a very famous gay bar on Oxford Street, and they were doing a ‘Kylie’ night – which I’d never heard of and never been to…I heard there were people dressed as me and it sounded like a good time. So that was the first moment I thought ‘Wow, something’s kind of happening’…over the years I think I’ve just always tried my best. I’ve tried to be myself. Anyone in this industry knows there’s obstacles how to be accepted as yourself and that’s just what I try to do with anyone.” So, she seems to- There seems to be this gay movement of- You know, I can imagine a Kylie night at a gay nightclub and- [chuckles]
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah, for sure. I mean… they were all gay bars, right?
KYLE GETZ
They had to be. [Mike laughs] I didn’t- Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah… any place doing a Kylie night must be a gay bar. I did not find that specifically, but…
MIKE JOHNSON
I would think.
KYLE GETZ
…has to be.
MIKE JOHNSON
Has to be.
KYLE GETZ
Um, she performed at the 1998 Sydney Gay and Lesbian Mardi Gras, and she’s done a lot of performances at Prides and, you know, gay and lesbian events. So, um, one article I read about the 2010s song All the Lovers said “Kylie would never claim to be a political artist, but … All The Lovers had an important message to share about the positivity of love and self-expression, and it was embraced by her LGBTQ+ fans,” and the video for it is basically a giant bisexual orgy. [Mike laughs] It is-
MIKE JOHNSON
Wait, bisexual giants baying there? Or there’s-
KYLE GETZ
[laughs] [in a deep voice] “Me want orgy!” [in a slightly less deep voice] “Me want orgy.” [in the first deep voice again] “Me orgy with you?” [Mike laughs] Um, no, it is a large [chuckles] bisexual orgy. Just tons of people all gettin’ down on each other and then lifting up Kylie above their head.
MIKE JOHNSON
Wow.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. That’s multitasking. There’s enough to do in an orgy already, much less trying to hold Kylie Minogue over your fucking head.
MIKE JOHNSON
…Literally fucking, maybe.
KYLE GETZ
[chuckles] Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
Perhaps. …I can’t tell if you’re tell- if you’re, like, pulling my leg.
KYLE GETZ
Oh, what? …The video’s a bisexual orgy?
MIKE JOHNSON
…Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
No. It is.
MIKE JOHNSON
Okay. [chuckles] Okay, great.
KYLE GETZ
No, it really is!
MIKE JOHNSON
Okay, great!
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. Yeah. [Mike chuckles] In 2014 she performed at the GLAAD Media Awards in New York City. Um, an article that I saw connected her cancer- I was reading a couple articles on why is she a LGBT icon. One article connected her battle with cancer with LGBT rights.
MIKE JOHNSON
[chuckles] Like “I understand the fight for queer rights; I’ve had breast cancer.”
KYLE GETZ
Kind of. Okay, here’s what they said.
MIKE JOHNSON
[laughs] “They’re basically the same!” [laughs]
KYLE GETZ
They’re the same thing. You know how it goes. Um, they said, quote, “Kylie, however, offers something truly different: a natural warmth and genuine understanding of the struggles of acceptance and challenge. She has known a battle or two: often with the critics, once most seriously with her health, and, of course, navigating more than three decades in the challenging music business.”
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
So, there’s… I think, sometimes, a- There are these icons that we’re like “They fought for everything and they’ve been through a lot, and that’s part of what we connect to about them.”
MIKE JOHNSON
Sure.
KYLE GETZ
And so I can see- As interesting or weird as it sounds on the surface level, I can see why people make these connections to… If you’ve gone through struggle and strife, that we relate to that person more.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. We do love a rise above story, I think.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
That makes sense to me. But you also- You have to do it in heels, you know?
KYLE GETZ
[chuckles] And, like, sequined top.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
Um, in 2020- This is the gayest thing I’ve found the entire time.
MIKE JOHNSON
Great. Lay it on me.
KYLE GETZ
2020, she started a wine business selling rosé.
MIKE JOHNSON
Mmm! Now I feel bad I didn’t know that so I could get you a bottle for this very recording session.
KYLE GETZ
Aw! Aw. That’s okay. I didn’t know she did all that charity work for amfAR, so… [both chuckle]
MIKE JOHNSON
Okay.
KYLE GETZ
So, you know, we’re here to teach each other shit.
MIKE JOHNSON
Great. Great.
KYLE GETZ
Um, in a 2021 interview when being asked about being a gay icon, she said, quote, “I didn’t set out to do that,” meaning “be inclusive”, “it is just naturally how I feel. There is so much talk about inclusivity, and I felt I always had that from the beginning.” “I used to say, I loved to be able to look out at my shows, and there are just all walks of life – there has never been any judgement.”
MIKE JOHNSON
Aww.
KYLE GETZ
So she’s saying good things, and also is not like… she’s not, like, passionately defending LGBT rights in that statement either.
MIKE JOHNSON
Sure.
KYLE GETZ
So, um, GLAAD – an article on GLAAD – did say that her music- that, whether it’s her music or her allyship, she is a pop legend who has achieved icon status. She’s performed at Prides around the world in 2013, she performed at the WorldPride in Sydney, she performed Padam Padam…
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
I mean, she released the song Padam Padam, [Mike chuckles] which is the second gayest thing about her. [Mike laughs] Um, so, to summarize why I think she’s considered a gay icon, I wrote down this quote: “Her unique LGBTQ+ appeal lies in the fact this survivor has grown up alongside the community, sharing, celebrating and commiserating with its ups and downs.”
MIKE JOHNSON
Okay. Okay.
KYLE GETZ
Okay.
MIKE JOHNSON
We’ve also said before that there’s just, like, a weird self-fulfilling feedback loop thing of, like, “She’s a gay icon because she’s a gay icon.”
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
And, like, once you get that, you just are.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
And then it happens more.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
Right?
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
But she does fit the template, like the- like, the archetype that we’ve seen over and over again. She fits a lot of those.
KYLE GETZ
What things are included in that archetype? Like, what things do you need to have?
MIKE JOHNSON
Be white. No. [laughs] Well…
KYLE GETZ
I think it’s easier…
MIKE JOHNSON
Um, uh, yeah, there’s sort of a grandioseness about the way that you, um, behave and dress especially, like a lot of sequins, like killer heels. Like, these are- These are- These are true things.
KYLE GETZ
And to do a Kylie night you have to be- she’d have to have distinctive enough looks that someone can dress up in something and you’ll be like “Oh, yep, that’s Kylie Minogue.”
MIKE JOHNSON
Yep. Um, a, like… I think that there’s a common thing of gay icons also, like, not coming from money.
KYLE GETZ
Mhm.
MIKE JOHNSON
Like, in a “Here I am, world. I’m unstoppable,” just fuckin’ making shit happen even though you came from, like, goddamn fuckin’ nowhere.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
Um… There’s also, sadly- I don’t think it’s part of why we’re attracted to them but I do think that there are a lot of gay icons who are sort of like tongue in cheek about their support for the gay community.
KYLE GETZ
Mhm.
MIKE JOHNSON
Like, they know on what side their bread is buttered.
KYLE GETZ
[chuckles] Sure.
MIKE JOHNSON
But they also aren’t super overt in their support.
KYLE GETZ
Mhm.
MIKE JOHNSON
So… iunno.
KYLE GETZ
Um, yeah. Yeah. I think- It sounded like, since the album Rhythm of Love – that one in the 90s that was a dance album – it sounded like she started out, earlier early in her career, being loved by gay men. And that has just continued on as she- So then, as she’s kept going, we are really loyal as long as you don’t fuck us over.
MIKE JOHNSON
Right.
KYLE GETZ
You know, like, as long as you keep the right path, we’re really loyal. And she kept releasing, you know, dance albums and dance songs that we loved. She has amazing outfits. She’s hot. She… yeah, has risen above challenges. So I think these are all the things that make her a gay icon.
MIKE JOHNSON
Mhm Mhm.
KYLE GETZ
I like that- I actually, like I said, did not find some of the nonprofit work that you mentioned. So, I liked that she- not only that she performs it Prides. So, that’s huge. So, she knows, you know, you can- when you’re that big, you get to decide where you’re going, I think.
MIKE JOHNSON
Right.
KYLE GETZ
Like, you’re the one making the decision. So, to recognize and perform for your gay audiences, I think, is huge. And to actually support monetarily when you’re that big… like, you make your money from gay men, so putting money back into the community, I think, is a huge thing.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yep.
KYLE GETZ
So she’s got some pluses in her side.
MIKE JOHNSON
Well, and I was thinking a little bit ago that- Uh, well, first, after saying I was glad that we were doing this when Australia is asleep: apparently RTCruiser’s awake, ‘cause he’s listening.
KYLE GETZ
I know, right?
MIKE JOHNSON
…Which, that makes me nervous. But, uh, Australia, when it comes to gay shit, is actually, like, behind us. Like, they didn’t legalize gay marriage until 2018. There- That is, when it comes to gender and sexuality issues, as near as I can tell: a very conservative country. So she also, sort of, has had to be, I think… a little careful about how much support and in what contexts, but while not biting the hand that feeds her. So, um-
KYLE GETZ
Yeah, RTCruiser, in the chat, says “Surrounding herself with hot gay dancers.”
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah, that helps.
KYLE GETZ
Yes. That’s a big one. [Mike laughs] Having hot dudes around you is absolutely part of the motif of these gay icons.
MIKE JOHNSON
Even if they’re straight.
KYLE GETZ
Even if they’re straight. We don’t need to know that.
MIKE JOHNSON
Mm.
KYLE GETZ
I’m just looking at ‘em, so, you know. Um, so, I don’t know- Yeah. So, she seems to be- There are some gay icons where I’m like “Yes, they’ve- Like, they started this nonprofit early in their career, and they’ve been outspoken about LGBTQ rights.” Like, she’s not that kind of icon. I think she is, like you said, an icon because she was an icon, and it kind of fuels itself.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yep. Yep. Once it’s- Once you pop you can’t stop? I don’t know what’s wrong with me, Kyle.
KYLE GETZ
[chuckles] So many idioms that you’ve got for us.
MIKE JOHNSON
Oh, I didn’t take my meds this morning.
KYLE GETZ
Ohhh.
MIKE JOHNSON
That’s what’s going on.
KYLE GETZ
Alright.
MIKE JOHNSON
I’m having the hardest time following up one single thread of thought, [Kyle chuckles] which is great for live podcasting. [chuckles]
KYLE GETZ
You gotta stick with me for 30 more minutes.
MIKE JOHNSON
Alright, I got it. I got it. I can do this. I can do this. Well, I want to talk more about soap operas, Kyle. So, there is like a parallel universe – right? – where she gets that job early, early in her career and stays in soap opera-ing and never attempts a music career or going with her sister on that talent show thing. And uh, she was in so many soap operas at the beginning of her career, but her biggest one was this show, Neighbours. And Neighbours has a surprising number of, like, really gay things about it. First of all, Guy Pearce also got his start on Neighbours.
KYLE GETZ
No way.
MIKE JOHNSON
…Who then went on to do, like, the gayest thing ever: Priscilla, Queen of the Desert. [Kyle chuckles] And they were- But they were on the show at the same time there, in the mid-80s. But, um, talking about this episode… So, the episode that, like, it was just such a big deal, is episode 523, and it premiered on July 1st of 1987. So, Charlene, who is Kylie Minogue’s character, has been dating this dude for a while – and his name is Scott, he’s played by Jason Donovan – and this episode is their wedding episode. So, backing up a little bit, they had been dating for a while, being adorable on the show… you know how soap operas roll: like, drama and, like… But, like, they’ve been together for a while, and there was a plotline where they were to move in together, and they got hate mail because “You’re going to let a beloved young unmarried couple live together? The horror.”
KYLE GETZ
OoooOoOoo.
MIKE JOHNSON
But that was the state of Australian sensibilities in the 80s, and arguably in the United States too at that time.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah, yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
Like, I could see a similar backlash happening. But um, so they decided “Okay, quick, write a wedding episode. We’re gonna have them get married instead of live in sin,” and so they got this wedding episode together. And uh, it was the highest ever ratings for Neighbours, became one of the highest rated soap opera episodes ever in Australia, and it got 19.6 million viewers in the United Kingdom when it aired in the UK.
KYLE GETZ
Wooow.
MIKE JOHNSON
Um, so it was just- It was a big deal. The wedding episode was a big deal. And, really- We’ve talked about parasocial relationships before, of, like, when you put content into your brain, even if it’s fiction, there’s parts of your brain that can’t help but feel connected and attached to those voices, those actors, that character even.
KYLE GETZ
The reason podcasts are a thing.
MIKE JOHNSON
They got so many wedding gifts in the mail-
KYLE GETZ
What?!
MIKE JOHNSON
-sent to the studio, which is- Like, every major wedding episode of every show, this is a thing that happens. It just- It was the first time it had happened on this scale in Australia.
KYLE GETZ
That’s creepy to me.
MIKE JOHNSON
It’s creepy to me too! Like you were just- Like, can you imagine sending, like, that episode where Ross married that lesbian – No. – in Friends?
KYLE GETZ
Yeah, I don’t think they had a wedding episode though.
MIKE JOHNSON
What happ-
KYLE GETZ
For- Not-
MIKE JOHNSON
His lesbian ex-wife got married. …Anyway-
KYLE GETZ
But did she get married on the show?
MIKE JOHNSON
I think s- All I’m saying is that, like… to watch a show, and be, like, into that show, and then like “Oh, they’re getting married. I’m going to go to Macy’s, see if they’re registered, be sad when they’re not because they’re a fucking fictional character, and then send them something anyway in the mail.” And some poor fuckin’ intern has to open it up and be like “I guess I get more cake knives.” [both chuckle]
KYLE GETZ
“I guess we have a third toaster now, for the office.” Like, yeah, what do you do with that shit? I mean… sell it and pocket the retail value of whatever it is.
MIKE JOHNSON
Maybe. Yeah. Send a gift receipt? [both chuckle]
KYLE GETZ
Oh, yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
Um, so the couple, leading up to the wedding episode, had been called TV’s “Romeo and Juliet” in Australia, because they were from feuding families. So there was also this, like, “What are the families gonna do when they get together at this wedding?”
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
And, um, so Minogue said – Kylie Minogue said – that she thought that the wedding episode and their marriage in general would bring controversial subjects such as, quote, “premarital sex and HIV/AIDS” into focus. So they were trying to explore the moral points behind living together and premarital sex, and even after you’re together what do you do, what’s safe, etc. Anyway, so this episode, then-huge massive hit, that’s when the locomotion dropped.
KYLE GETZ
Mmm…
MIKE JOHNSON
So it was this huge moment for her career and that really was the blast off, in a lot of ways.
KYLE GETZ
I wonder, if that timing hadn’t been that timing, if everything would have still happened for her like that. You know?
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
Like, it’s weird that some things, like, for some people, just line up and work out and… yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I think- Sometimes I think that a lot of fame is just luck.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.
MIKE JOHNSON
Which is unfortunate, because then we also have this, like, false narrative that it’s through grit and perseverance or whatever.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
And… some of that is true, but it’s the combo. Like, you have to try, and work hard, and just get fuckin’ lucky.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. And you have to have some talent too, like- but a lot of people have talent. You know, it’s- Not everyone that has talent is famous, so there’s gotta be more, and yeah, right, I think luck is a big part of it.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yep. Uh, so Scott and Charlene’s wedding ceremony has often been included in lists about the best television weddings or soap opera moments of all time. It was voted the most romantic TV nuptials of all time and the top TV wedding of all time, in a Radio Times poll. I’m assuming that’s Australian. [Kyle chuckles] Um, and then, in 2011, Channel 5 had a Greatest TV Weddings program, and the wedding place third. So, even all those years later it was still, like, a big deal. Apparently, the actor that played Scott is also a musician, and the fans demanded a duet between Kylie Minogue and this actor, musician guy. Jason Donovan is his name, there he is. Um, and they were ultimately successful. There was a [chuckles] duet that was released between them, um, uh, uh… let’s see… just like a couple of years later which I just- I think that that shit’s great, like the idea that, like, you’re on-TV wedding means now you have to do things in real life together…
KYLE GETZ
[chuckles] Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
…even if you don’t want to.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
She was reluctant, ultimately relented, and now we have this song.
KYLE GETZ
Did you listen to it?
MIKE JOHNSON
Um, no, I did not listen to it.
KYLE GETZ
Oh, okay. I didn’t know if it was any good.
MIKE JOHNSON
Um, we should fuckin’ listen to it.
KYLE GETZ
We need to listen to all of these. [chuckles]
MIKE JOHNSON
I’m trying to find the name of it but, like I said, I’m not medicated right now, so I’m having- I’m struggling. Totes struggs to func, Kyle. Um… what else do I want to tell you about this thing? Oh! So, that got me thinking about just, like, soap operas in general, and soap opera moments.
KYLE GETZ
Mhm.
MIKE JOHNSON
And, um, the thing that is interesting to me is: compared to other Australian soap operas, and globally soap operas in general, the show Neighbours that she was on was actually behind the curve in terms of queer representation.
KYLE GETZ
Hm!
MIKE JOHNSON
So, um, the first lesbian character on that show was, uh, Lana Crawford played by Bridget Neval, and she became the first lesbian character in 2004.
KYLE GETZ
Oh, wow.
MIKE JOHNSON
Which, most soap operas, as far as I can tell… there were gay characters in the 70s and 80s, and a lot of them, if not full on plotlines. Uh, so, for it to be that late is… pretty late. In 2010, the first regular gay character, named Chris Pappas played by James Mason, was introduced. Again, 2010. Other soap operas had had gays in the 70s and 80s. Uh, and then in 2018 Aaron Brennan played by Matt Wilson, and David Tanaka played by Takaya Honda, were married, which was the first same-sex marriage to feature in an Australian TV drama.
KYLE GETZ
Ooo.
MIKE JOHNSON
Because they had, apparently, some- They waited until it was legal. So, same-sex marriage was legalized in 2018 and that’s when they decided to have a gay marriage plotline.
KYLE GETZ
Oh, like, that kind of makes sense though.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
Like, that couple could also have been waiting for it to be legal to- You know, that lines up with what happened in real life too.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yep… And, people were having commitment ceremonies and other kinds of gay weddings well before legalization. What I’m interested in – and didn’t look up, but maybe now I will, I don’t know – is whether there was, like, a regulatory reason for it. Because, like, TV rules are fucked up in a lot of places and it might’ve had, like, repercussions if they had… promoted an illegal act, or not yet legal act, or who- Like, I don’t know. Anyway…
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
Uh, the first trans character on Neighbours was Mackenzie Hargreaves played by Georgie Stone, introduced in late 2019. That was after the actor approached the producers with a pitch that there should be a character, and they said “Okay.”
KYLE GETZ
Good for that actor, to be, like, making their own opportunities.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. Absolutely. And good for them for listening and doing it.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
Good job, everybody.
MIKE JOHNSON
Um, some other queer moments in Australian soap opera history. There’s a show called The Box, and it featured a character named Lee Whiteman and was a camp- a high camp television producer, and has two same-sex relationships during his time in the series that were on-screen. So, gay shit on Australian soap operas goes back to 1974, apparently.
KYLE GETZ
Wow.
MIKE JOHNSON
Um, yeah. Anyway, that’s some stuff about soap operas. Look at the time, Kyle.
KYLE GETZ
Look at the time. That’s really interesting. Thank you, Mike.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
Um, I’m gonna- Let’s diverge into the woods. Now I’m doing weird…
MIKE JOHNSON
Into the woods.
KYLE GETZ
Um, and play a little game.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah! Play a game. Okay, those of you on the Pride48 Discord chat, please play along/give me the answers. [both chuckle] Here we go!
KYLE GETZ
Um, I’m going to give you a lyric…
MIKE JOHNSON
Okay.
KYLE GETZ
…and you’re going to tell me-
MIKE JOHNSON
Oh, I am fucked, Kyle.
KYLE GETZ
No you’re not, no you’re not.
MIKE JOHNSON
Okay, okay.
KYLE GETZ
You’re gonna tell me whether it’s from Can’t Get You Out of My Head…
MIKE JOHNSON
Okay.
KYLE GETZ
…Padam Padam…
MIKE JOHNSON
Okay.
KYLE GETZ
…Or I made it up.
MIKE JOHNSON
Okay, great. I love this.
KYLE GETZ
Okay.
MIKE JOHNSON
I love this. Okay, here we go.
KYLE GETZ
I only have a few, so… Um, first one is “I can tell you how this ends, I’ll be in your head all weekend.”
MIKE JOHNSON
That’s Padam Padam.
KYLE GETZ
That’s Padam Padam. Good job!
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeaaaah!
KYLE GETZ
See? You go this.
MIKE JOHNSON
[chuckles] [singing] Be in your head all weekend.
KYLE GETZ
Um, “From my nose down through my toes, you’ll find parts that nobody else knows.”
MIKE JOHNSON
…You made that up.
KYLE GETZ
I made that up.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeeesss!
KYLE GETZ
Whoa!
MIKE JOHNSON
[laughs] Sorry, I yelled.
KYLE GETZ
I need to be- I need to be keeping track of these.
KYLE GETZ
Uh, you have two so far.
MIKE JOHNSON
Okay, great.
KYLE GETZ
This one’s a tough one.
MIKE JOHNSON
Okay, great.
KYLE GETZ
La la la, [Mike chuckles] la la la la la, la la la…
MIKE JOHNSON
Uh huh.
KYLE GETZ
…la la, la la la.
MIKE JOHNSON
Okay, in my head those are not las, but in the recording they are nas in Can’t Get You Out of My Head. I think that’s n-a n-a, and you made that up.
KYLE GETZ
Oh, interesting. No, that’s Can’t Get You Out of My Head.
MIKE JOHNSON
Oh, well fuck my ass.
KYLE GETZ
Sorry.
MIKE JOHNSON
Alright.
KYLE GETZ
That was a good theory though. I like that.
MIKE JOHNSON
[laughs] Just always looking out for how you can fuck me, Kyle.
KYLE GETZ
I’m trying. I’m trying to. Um, “There’s a dark secret in me. Don’t leave me left in your heart, set me free.”
MIKE JOHNSON
…Padam Padam.
KYLE GETZ
Incorrect, that is Can’t Get You Out of My Head.
MIKE JOHNSON
Shit! [both chuckle]
KYLE GETZ
Next one is “Shivers that ease your pain. I get the shivers every time you touch my brain.”
MIKE JOHNSON
[sighs] …Padam Padam.
KYLE GETZ
No, I made that one up.
MIKE JOHNSON
Son of a bitch, Kyle!
KYLE GETZ
She does say something like that. She says “Shivers and cold champagne. I get the shivers every time you say my name.”
MIKE JOHNSON
Okay.
KYLE GETZ
[singing] Shivers and cold champagne.
MIKE JOHNSON
Okay. Alright.
KYLE GETZ
[mumbling/singing] I get the shivers every time ba ba ba ba…
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
Um, next one, “You’re everything I ever knew. I want to feel you in my bedsheets too.”
MIKE JOHNSON
…Can’t Get You Out of My Head?
KYLE GETZ
I made that one up.
MIKE JOHNSON
Son of a bitch, Kyle! [Kyle chuckles] Fuck.
KYLE GETZ
Last one.
MIKE JOHNSON
Great.
KYLE GETZ
This is the last one.
MIKE JOHNSON
[chuckles] Somebody in the chat says, if you have brain shivers, you should see a doctor. [both chuckle]
KYLE GETZ
Brain shivers mean you might not have taken your meds.
MIKE JOHNSON
Thanks, nico.
KYLE GETZ
Um, “Won’t you stay? Won’t you lay? Stay forever, and ever, and ever, and ever.”
MIKE JOHNSON
That’s Can’t Get You Out of My Head.
KYLE GETZ
Correct!
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeaaah!
KYLE GETZ
You got three.
MIKE JOHNSON
Great.
KYLE GETZ
So you failed.
MIKE JOHNSON
Great. [both laugh] If there’s anything I love more than anything else, Kyle, it’s public failure. [both chuckle]
KYLE GETZ
Well you do- No. Uh, you did a good job, especially for not being a- Well, you love Padam Padam, so…
MIKE JOHNSON
I do… I think.
KYLE GETZ
Hm.
MIKE JOHNSON
You know? Padam Padam is so interesting because- Okay-
KYLE GETZ
This is a good segue into we’re gonna talk about Padam Padam.
MIKE JOHNSON
Personal feelings? Oh, Padam Padam.
KYLE GETZ
No, no- Yeah. I have an entire thing on Padam Padam.
MIKE JOHNSON
First of all, we have a friend whose theory is that straight people can’t hear that song.
KYLE GETZ
Yes. [both chuckle]
MIKE JOHNSON
That it’s just silence when that song is on, which I think is fucking hilarious.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
But also- Okay, don’t @ me everybody – or do, I love it – um, it’s not that great of a song. Why do I fucking love it? You know? Maybe I do understand your relationship to Britney. [chuckles]
KYLE GETZ
I think, if you like this song, then you understand at least a part of it. I- You don’t have to- A song doesn’t have to be, like, “This changes the world. This is the most unique, individual, high quality, well produced thing ever.” It can just be fun.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
It can be like “I like this. I like to dance to this. This makes me happy.” Like, songs can just be basic, and easy, and fun.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yes. Yes. I agree with that. I’m not here to yuck anybody’s yum or shit on anybody’s parade.
KYLE GETZ
Mhm. But…
MIKE JOHNSON
And… it’s also not that fun? Like, she kind of sounds like she’s underwater and bored. [both chuckle] And I don’t- I don’t understand some of the, like, sound choices that they’ve made with this song. Go ahead.
KYLE GETZ
N-
MIKE JOHNSON
Oh, I just- I just- I just- I just- It’s not that fun. It just- Flowers is the same thing. Fucking Miley Cyrus. That song is just… not great, and yet here I am.
KYLE GETZ
And it was like the quickest song to reach a billion streams on Spotify, or something. Like, you are not the only one.
MIKE JOHNSON
So stupid.
KYLE GETZ
But the Kylie Minogue- The- Like, her sounding like it’s underwater… A Vogue opinion piece-
MIKE JOHNSON
Great.
KYLE GETZ
-which was called “Kylie Minogue’s “Padam Padam” Is the Gay Nonsense Bop We Needed This Pride”…
MIKE JOHNSON
Okay.
KYLE GETZ
…um, one of the things that it talked about in, you know, trying to figure out why is this a gay song, why do we love it, what is going on here, apparently it went viral in TikTok which I don’t- I’m not on TikTok, so I don’t know.
MIKE JOHNSON
Thanks, TikTok.
KYLE GETZ
I guess so. I mean, songs- That is one way to get your song to, like, go somewhere, is you put it on TikTok and, if the sound catches and people use it, then… Anyway, so it went viral on TikTok, quote, “in no small part because Minogue sounds exactly like an AI creature on the track.”
MIKE JOHNSON
Great. [Kyle chuckles] I agree.
KYLE GETZ
So there’s-
MIKE JOHNSON
Underwater and bored! [both laugh] We’re saying the same thing.
KYLE GETZ
Um, let’s see… Another article that I read about Padam Padam is on Harper’s Bazaar. It says “‘Padam Padam’ Is a Pride Anthem and Kylie Minogue at Her Peak”. The subtitle is “The pop star’s latest song isn’t just a bop, but also a newly inducted element of the queer lexicon”.
MIKE JOHNSON
Eugh. That sounds like a bunch of bullshit. [chuckles]
KYLE GETZ
I see this song as- There are things like “Gays drink iced coffee,” or “Gays can’t do math,” that are just newer things that have come up and we all just kind of glom on to them, and there’s no actual reason- there’s nothing actually gay about them.
MIKE JOHNSON
Right?
KYLE GETZ
It’s just- But now we’ve made it gay, and it’s our thing, and it’s funny and fun to feel like you’re in on something. And I think this is one of those things. I think we all decided it was a gay thing. And you- And we just then made it our thing. Like, I think it entering into the lexicon explains its popularity, to me.
MIKE JOHNSON
Okay. Okay, okay.
KYLE GETZ
Apparently, the track was debuted on the season finale of American Idol, which included a squad of buff male dancers in skintight military-meets-sci-fi outfits.
MIKE JOHNSON
Fuck yes.
KYLE GETZ
So, you know, we’ve got the performing on a huge popular TV show, we’ve got the buff background dancers. She has a gay cult following even in the US. And the article said, quote, “we’re allowed to enjoy even objectively terrible things with a confusing mix of irony and superiority.”
MIKE JOHNSON
[laughs] Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
Right?
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
“If something is ‘so bad it’s good,’ we are the ones who get to decide.”
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah! Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
And it connected it to-
MIKE JOHNSON
But then, like, that also presumes that there’s like some gay high council that, like, has a gavel and decides, like-
KYLE GETZ
Things kinda- But it- There’s- I don’t know how it works, but it kind of works like that, right? Like, it kinda just spreads through gay world and then it’s just like “Hey, everyone, this is a gay thing now,” right?
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Can you imagine what, like, a gay high council would look like? There’s like, you know, one twink, one bear, one otter, one gamer, one- like, and they meet, like, quarterly.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. [Mike chuckles] At like 5, but then it actually starts at like 5:37 [Mike laughs] because everyone had to go get their iced coffee on the way there.
MIKE JOHNSON
Right. Right, right, right. Uh, talking a little bit about, like, the way that she sounds… So, somebody- Tim Sendra on AllMusic said that she has a slightly nasal girl next door vocals that serve her needs perfectly. She’s known for her soft soprano vocal range, but also, apparently, she was sometimes referred to by people that hate her as “the Singing Budgie”, which, a budgie is an Australian bird that I guess sounds…
KYLE GETZ
Oh. Oh God.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
Awh, Kylie.
MIKE JOHNSON
I just wanted to say “budgie”.
KYLE GETZ
Budgie.
MIKE JOHNSON
‘Cause budgie smugglers are- Anyway, go ahead.
KYLE GETZ
I haven’t heard of that. Um, in the Vogue article it said, quote, “We love mess in all its forms, particularly the sonic kind!” [Mike laughs] Um, so there’s- I mean, a lot of these-
MIKE JOHNSON
[laughs] That’s not kind. Go ahead.
KYLE GETZ
[chuckles] Well, a lot of these are, like, acknowledging like “This is trash and we love some good hot trash.”
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
I like the idea that we get to decide what trash is acceptable.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yep.
KYLE GETZ
Um, I think another part of this is, similar to “Gays like iced coffee,” is you get to feel connected to gay culture no matter where or who you are.
MIKE JOHNSON
Sure.
KYLE GETZ
I think you could be in the boonies and you listen to this and you get to feel like you’re part of gay culture. You don’t have to go anywhere or do anything. So- Especially because this was released around Pride, in June.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
Um, it was released in May, but you know, around June… then we get to, no matter who we are or what we’re doing, play this song and feel like we’re part of gay culture.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
That, I think, is an important thing sometimes.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah, I’m with you. Yeah, absolutely. And it doesn’t have to make sense.
KYLE GETZ
It doesn’t have to make sense. That’s true. But I think there are a lot of- It’s always interesting looking at all these factors that add up together, like her cult following, plus going on TikTok, and plus American Idol, and plus, you know, the weird sounds, and plus we all call it a bop. Like, you know, all these things add together to make it part of gay culture.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, did we do it?
KYLE GETZ
I… don’t know. How do you- We didn’t talk about- How do you feel about her?
MIKE JOHNSON
Fine.
KYLE GETZ
[chuckles] Yeah? That’s kind of where I’m at too.
MIKE JOHNSON
So, one of the articles that I looked at had a picture of her wax sculpture at, like, a Madame Tussauds, and it looks exactly like her.
KYLE GETZ
Oooh.
MIKE JOHNSON
That’s how I feel about her. [Kyle chuckles] Like, she’s a person that looks exactly like her own wax sculpture.
KYLE GETZ
That’s hilarious. Um, I… yeah, just kind of feel, like, fine about her.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
I don’t love her, I don’t revere her the way others in other countries do, and I’m just kinda fine with her.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
Eh.
MIKE JOHNSON
I mean, I would- If she was coming to Pride, I would stay and see her.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. Yeah. If I already had a ticket.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. [both chuckle]
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. I think we did it.
MIKE JOHNSON
Okay, we did it. Um, so, everybody on the stream and on Discord, we’re gonna do Gayest & Straightest here in just a little bit. Um, but first we have to take a break because that’s what we do, so-
KYLE GETZ
That’s what we do.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. So, should we take a break?
KYLE GETZ
Yeah, let’s take a break.
MIKE JOHNSON
Let’s take a break.
[Break music plays, sung by MIKE JOHNSON]
This is the part where Mike and Kyle take a break!
MIKE JOHNSON
S- Are we back?
KYLE GETZ
We’re back!
MIKE JOHNSON
We’re back! [both chuckle]
KYLE GETZ
Oh, what a break that was.
MIKE JOHNSON
I have to pee so bad, and we can’t actually do that now!
KYLE GETZ
Oh no! [both chuckle] You got seven minutes, hold on.
MIKE JOHNSON
Alright, alright, alright.
KYLE GETZ
Um…
MIKE JOHNSON
We’re gonna do our Gayest & Straightest, but first, hey, dirty fuckers..! We’re coming to Houston…
KYLE GETZ
Yeah!
MIKE JOHNSON
…neeeext month, next month. Uh, so yeah, we will be in Houston. We’re performing at KIKI, right there in the Montrose neighborhood, on Sunday, October the 15th at noon. Be there or be square.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. Buy your tickets at gayishpodcast.com/live.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
Um, also if you are listening to this live over the weekend, next up is Pod Is My Copilot, so stick around to listen to them.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeaaah! Heart them.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
Big hugs.
KYLE GETZ
Um, do you want to do- Should we do our contact info?
MIKE JOHNSON
Sure. Our website is gayishpodcast.com.
KYLE GETZ
We are on socials, including Instagram, and we have our own Discord. So, if you want to come hang out in a different Discord, you can find all that contact info at gayishpodcast.com/contact.
MIKE JOHNSON
Our hotline, you can send us text messages or leave us voicemails, is 5855-Gayish. That’s 585-542-9474. Standard rates apply.
KYLE GETZ
Our email is gayispot- [Mike chuckles] …gayishpodcast@gmail.com.
MIKE JOHNSON
And our physical mailing address is Post Office Box 19882 Seattle, Washington 98109.
KYLE GETZ
Is it time for our Gayest & Straightest?
MIKE JOHNSON
It’s time for our Gayest & Straightest.
KYLE GETZ
…I’ll go.
MIKE JOHNSON
Okay, go!
KYLE GETZ
Um, so my gayest is: I have been listening to all of these gay-ass podcasts all weekend.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeaaah! Pride48, we see you.
KYLE GETZ
Pride48, yep. Yep. So, I’ve been hanging out in the chat, all that good stuff.
MIKE JOHNSON
Do you have a favorite? Do you wanna call out somebody and have everybody else feel bad by comparison?
KYLE GETZ
Sure. [Mike chuckles] Uh, well, Adam Burns, on Geeky Gay, did five shows.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
Knocked out five shows…
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
…in order to get all this week’s done.
MIKE JOHNSON
…On top of being on basically all of the other shows also, so…
KYLE GETZ
Basically every other show. I don’t know- At the end of this, he’s not gonna be able to talk because it’d just be like “I have nothing else to talk about. I’m out.”
MIKE JOHNSON
He’s the MVP award.
KYLE GETZ
Yep. Um, and my straightest is: I was informed- we were informed by someone that Cher is releasing a Christmas album. I had no idea. And so, feeling out of the loop on Sher is my straightest.
MIKE JOHNSON
Great. Well done.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. [both chuckle] What about you?
MIKE JOHNSON
Uh… what about me? So, the gayest thing about me this week is, uh: last night with the boyfriend watching The Little Mermaid. [laughs]
KYLE GETZ
The new one?
MIKE JOHNSON
The new one, yeah. I just was like-
KYLE GETZ
How was it?
MIKE JOHNSON
It was really good.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah?
MIKE JOHNSON
Yes. I felt- Like, just by watching it I felt anti-racist, you know what I mean?
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. Yeah. Yep.
MIKE JOHNSON
And then uh, the straightest thing about me this week was, uh: I’ve been doing a bunch of traveling, the battery and the Jeep has been going bad for a while, and I just hopped in and drove just a short way down the street. And thank God I was parked on the hill, because then when I got back into the Jeep after running my errand, it would not turn over, it wouldn’t start. The battery was dead, so I roll started it.
KYLE GETZ
Whooh, how do you do that?
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. You either have to push – push start – it, or you have to be on a hill and get it going fast enough that you can pop the clutch and then it’ll turn over, because you don’t need the battery necessarily to make the engine go. If your alternator’s working, it will spark the spark plugs and make the gas burn, you just have to get up to speed and then pop the clutch and it goes.
KYLE GETZ
Wow.
MIKE JOHNSON
It was so impressive. I got- Like, I was so straight.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah, that’s very impressive.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. Um… okay, Gayest & Straightest.
KYLE GETZ
We have a couple from our chat. So, I will grab… RTCruiser’s straightest was “Taking a chunk off my knuckle working on my car.”
MIKE JOHNSON
Ouch.
KYLE GETZ
Ow.
MIKE JOHNSON
He has a whole bunch of cars.
KYLE GETZ
Oh. Um, gayest is “Said car is like a rolling brothel with green metallic interior with leopard skin print accents”.
MIKE JOHNSON
Oh my goodness.
KYLE GETZ
Wow, is that very gay.
MIKE JOHNSON
[chuckles] That’s awesome.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
Um, this one’s from Moose P.
KYLE GETZ
Do it.
MIKE JOHNSON
Steve Moose P. Uh, “Gayest: listening to [Pride48] most of the weekend,” just like Kyle. “Straightest: But right now have one eye on Scream on TV.” [Kyle chuckles]
KYLE GETZ
…Um, and then from DocStone “GAYEST and STRAIGHTEST was happening concurrently. I’m passively watching the 49ers football game, but I was trying to learn to play on the piano a Judy Garland song, ‘The Man That Got Away.’”
MIKE JOHNSON
Awh! [Kyle chuckles] Well, that is it. A special, special thank you to Pride48 for all of the fun years of live streaming with you all. We’re happy to keep participating in whatever form the future takes. And, of course, a huge thanks to Adam and Daniel for all of the hard work that they do. You guys are fucking amazing.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah, thank you, Adam and Daniel, for everything that you’ve done and the community you’ve created.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
I also want to thank our Super Gap Bridgers; they’re the ones that give us the most money. So, thank you to Kit Oliver, Andrew Bugbee, William Bryant, Christopher M, John Crawley, Stephen Portch, Joh Stoessel, Harry Shaw, Josh Copeland, Jonathan Montañez, Waddu, Forrest Nail, Patrick Martin, James Barrow, Steve Douglas, Explosive Lasagna, Michael Cubbington, Just Jamie, Kevin Henderson, Tomas B, Timothy Saura, DustySands, AE Coleman, Chris Khachatourians, and Jerome York.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeaaah!
KYLE GETZ
Thank you for your support.
MIKE JOHNSON
Thanks for your money!
KYLE GETZ
…For your support.
MIKE JOHNSON
[laughs] Uh, this has been Gayish. From the Chris Khachatourians studios, I’m Mike Johnson.
KYLE GETZ
I’m Kyle Getz. Until next week, be butch, be fabulous, be you.
[Outro music plays, instrumental]
MIKE JOHNSON
See you next week, y’all.
KYLE GETZ
See you next week.
MIKE JOHNSON
Buy your tickets for Houston.
KYLE GETZ
Pleeease.
MIKE JOHNSON
And bye, Pride48.
KYLE GETZ
Bye.
MIKE JOHNSON
In the immortal words of Fetty, “Now, how do I turn this shit off?”
[Transcriptionist: C Dixon, CMDixonWork@gmail.com]
Mike and Kyle talk about fingering tips, why giving the finger is gay, gay finger sizes, and whether fingering qualifies as sex.
In this episode: News- 9:01 || Main Topic (Fingering)- 15:53 || Gayest & Straightest- 1:02:03
Come see us live in Houston! Visit www.gayishpodcast.com/live for tour dates, details and tickets. We can’t wait to see you!
On the Patreon bonus segment, Mike shares more about the (misunderstood) history of The Black Cat in LA. If you want to support our show while getting ad-free episodes a day early, go to www.patreon.com/gayishpodcast.
FULL EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
INTRO MUSIC [MIKE JOHNSON SINGING]
When you know that you are queer but your favorite drink is beer, that’s Gayish. You can bottom without stopping [audience cheers] but you can’t stand going shopping, that’s Gayish. Oh, Gayish. You’re probably Gayish. Oh life’s just too short for narrow stereotypes. Oh, it’s Gayish. We’re all so Gayish. It’s Gayish with Mike and Kyle.
MIKE JOHNSON
Hello, everyone in the podcast universe. This is Gayish. [audience cheers and applauds] Aw, great.
KYLE GETZ
…The podcast that’s like a vacuum cleaner begging for the crumbies. [audience laughs]
MIKE JOHNSON
Oh. …We’ve talked about cummies, Kyle.
KYLE GETZ
We’ve talked about the word “cummies”. Not a fan.
MIKE JOHNSON
Not down. Uh, yeah, I’m Mike Johnson.
KYLE GETZ
I’m Kyle Getz.
MIKE JOHNSON
And we’re here to bridge the gap between sexuality and actuality, and h-
KYLE GETZ
We’re so excited you’re here!
MIKE JOHNSON
Hello, Los Angeles. [audience cheers and applauds] Excellent. Excellent work on arriving. Uh, was everyone nice to you at the front door? [Yeahs from the audience] Because they’re their union labor, so we’re, like, trying to work out a thing. Um, big thanks to Akbar for hosting us, they’re wonderful, appreciate them. [audience cheers and applauds] Uh, it is of course a live show tradition that we do not reveal the topic of the show, for no good reason, until well into the show. Um, how’s your LA experience, Kyle?
KYLE GETZ
Um, hot.
MIKE JOHNSON
It is so fucking hot here! [audience laughs] This is the sluttiest I’ve dressed for a live show ever [Kyle chuckles, audience woos] and it’s perfect. It’s just because of utility. Like, I’m just hot. [Mike chuckles]
KYLE GETZ
The lights reflecting off of Mike’s thighs right now [Mike and audience laugh] is its own spotlight. You are wearing- You have “Do me,” pants on.
MIKE JOHNSON
And it’s just for you. [Mike and Kyle chuckle]
KYLE GETZ
I know, I’m the only one that can see ‘em. That’s okay, I appreciate a little- [sounds of Mike moving around] Oh.
MIKE JOHNSON
They’re like- [audience cheers] They go up there.
KYLE GETZ
So much legs.
MIKE JOHNSON
So much legs.
KYLE GETZ
Um, how’s your LA so far?
MIKE JOHNSON
Uh, what was that fever dream we went through last night? I-
KYLE GETZ
Okay, w-
MIKE JOHNSON
We went downtown…
KYLE GETZ
We went to… Well, first we got- We’ve eaten Mexican food for every meal, of course, and we got what I think is a very LA waitress. Her nose was kind of up, and she walked over and she’s like “Hiiiii.” [audience and Mike laugh] And I was like “Hiiii.” [Kyle chuckles] Um, she’s very sweet but it- “How are you doinnggg?”
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. It was great.
KYLE GETZ
It was delicious though.
MIKE JOHNSON
It was delicious, yeah.
KYLE GETZ
And then we went to the Eagle.
MIKE JOHNSON
We did go to the Eagle. It was Meat Rack, was the name of the event last night. [a few cheers from audience] Anybody- Round of applause, you’ve been to Meat Rack? [audience applauds and cheers]
KYLE GETZ
Oh!
MIKE JOHNSON
Okay. Great.
KYLE GETZ
It’s been a minute since I’ve been to an Eagle of any sort.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. They’re all, like- They’re not a chain; we’ve talked about that on the show before.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
Like, there’s no central, like, Eagle management person.
KYLE GETZ
Right, right.
MIKE JOHNSON
But they all are, like, kind of dark, black paint, probably bars on the window, or inside, or both. And uh, this- It was, like, bear stripper night, I guess? Like, that’s what Meat Rack was?
KYLE GETZ
I think that’s- Isn’t that every night? [Mike and Kyle chuckle] I think that’s just the Eagle.
MIKE JOHNSON
I think that’s- Yeah, you might be right.
But this in particular… Okay, so we were sitting at this table and didn’t realize that, like, the box next to us was going to be where the dancing was going to happen. So, Adam got up and went to the bathroom – my fraternity brother, Adam, who’s working the door today – got up to went to the bathroom and then I sat in his chair. And the next thing I know, there’s a bear go-go boy stripping, like, right here at this level. And then he immediately, like, walked in front of me to bend down to talk to a patron and get money from them, and it was just his hole. [Mike, Kyle, and audience laugh] Like, very, very close to me.
KYLE GETZ
So you had a second meal that night?
MIKE JOHNSON
Exactly. [Mike, Kyle, and audience laugh]
MIKE JOHNSON
And then- And then- And then we went to h- Oh no, we went to The Black Cat.
KYLE GETZ
Oh, yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
Which, The Black Cat has history. I don’t know if you’ve been to The Black Cat. It’s here in Silver Lake but it’s like… Stonewall was not the beginning. Like, there were other riots and other- Not riots… r- Uh-
KYLE GETZ and MIKE JOHNSON
Raids.
MIKE JOHNSON
There were other raids that happened with the police, and we were organized well before that. Anyway, The Black Cat is, like, one of the places that that happened. That’s our Patreon segment this week.
KYLE GETZ
That’s gonna be for Patreon. Mike, like, did research for fun, so we decided to talk about it.
MIKE JOHNSON
I was on the plane, I was bored. Whatever.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. Yeah, I get it. Uh, and then we went to…
MIKE JOHNSON
The New Jalisco? [an “Oh” from the audience] …Ohh!
KYLE GETZ
Oohhhh!
MIKE JOHNSON
I did not understand what was going on. It was part quinceañera, part trashy go-go boy, part, like, farm convention? Like, everybody was wearing, like, jeans, and button up shirts, and hats. And, like-
KYLE GETZ
There were drag queens but they were just… women. They weren’t drag queens, they were just women that were dancing.
MIKE JOHNSON
They appeared to be, like-
KYLE GETZ
But they, like, had all the presentation of a drag queen.
MIKE JOHNSON
-cis women lip-synching and all of these men, like, putting cash down their breastages. Um, it was wild. But then- So, for a little bit, we were like “Is this a queer place? We don’t know.” And then one of the go-go boys – which, there were go-go boys, but that could be for the ladies; you don’t know – but he walked over and literally said “Hello,” by grabbing our hands and putting them on his penis.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
Like, that’s just- You shake hands with your dick at The New Jalisco, everybody. [audience applauds]
KYLE GETZ
And [Kyle chuckles] you called his penis…
MIKE JOHNSON
A pork loin. That thing was- That was- It was impressive. [Mike and audience chuckle]
KYLE GETZ
It was a fine “How do ya do?” if I say so myself.
MIKE JOHNSON
Um… Okay, we talked about LA enough. Uh… moving on! How many of you- Round of applause, how many of you have heard the show before? [audience applauds and cheers loudly] Excellent. And then the follow up question: round of applause, you Gayish virgins? [a few cheers and claps from the audience] Great.
KYLE GETZ
Yes!
MIKE JOHNSON
Excellent. You’re welcome. [audience and Kyle chuckle] Um, great. And then the other question I like to ask-
KYLE GETZ
I wanted to say it’ll all make more sense soon, but I don’t know if that’s true. [Mike and audience chuckle] At some point this show will make sense to you, but I don’t know. I don’t know. Probably not.
MIKE JOHNSON
Uh, round of applause, how many queer folks? [audience cheers and applauds loudly] Great. And then, other than anybody working the door, straight people? [Mike chuckles] [one audience member woos]
KYLE GETZ and MIKE JOHNSON
Yeaaah! [audience chuckles and applauds]
KYLE GETZ
This will never make sense to you. [Mike, Kyle, and audience chuckle]
MIKE JOHNSON
Awesome. Welcome. I hope- I hope you survive your experience today. Well, so, just for you and you alone: this is a very not safe for work show, it’s R-rated. We talk about gay stereotypes. We do one topic a week. This will be episode 351, [a couple cheers and claps from the audience] so there’s a lot to go through if you want to. We’ve only missed a couple of weeks in, like, six and a half years. Um, please take as many selfies, and videos, and whatever as you want to, and then tag them @gayishpodcast; it gives Derek something to do with our social medias. And then, at the end of every show, we do our Gayest & Straightest where we talk about the stereotypically gayest and stereotypically straightest thing about us that week and- just to show that there’s a little bit of column A and a little bit of column B for everyone. So, if you would like to share yours at the end of the show, we would love to have you. There’s a microphone up here. We’ll have you give us your Gayest & Straightest and you can walk home with one of those mugs up there on the rail. Um, so be thinking about that, but you’ve got an hour or so to get your shit together. Um, speaking of getting our shit together, Kyle…
KYLE GETZ
Uh- Yeah, Mike?
MIKE JOHNSON
Behind this, like, vagina wall curtain thing that we came out of is, like, the green room.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
There’s no booze in the green room. [one audience member boos] Well, there were stacks of booze that seemed like they were for, like-
MIKE JOHNSON
Customers, yeah.
KYLE GETZ
-for the bar and customers, that I don’t think we should have taken.
MIKE JOHNSON
Can we get- Can somebody get us booze?
KYLE GETZ
Oh.
MIKE JOHNSON
Booze-
KYLE GETZ
Is that it a- [Mike and Kyle then audience laugh]
MIKE JOHNSON
Yes, I love volunteers! [Mike laughs, audience claps]
KYLE GETZ
Is that a-
MIKE JOHNSON
Don’t pay for it, just, like, take one of the tickets from Adam at the door. And- Uh, okay.
KYLE GETZ
I didn’t know that was a power we had.
MIKE JOHNSON
I didn’t either! [audience laughs] This is magical. Does anybody wanna get me a go-go boy? [Mike and audience laugh]
KYLE GETZ
Can I have a boyfriend?
MIKE JOHNSON
Um, great.
KYLE GETZ
Wow!
MIKE JOHNSON
Oh, yeah. We also, at the end of the show for no reason whatsoever, we take a shot at a break. We do a break and we take a shot, and if you were to do shots with us, make sure you have a shot. Uh, again, toward the end of the show.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
Did we do it, Kyle?
KYLE GETZ
I think so. I think-
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah?
KYLE GETZ
This is Gayish. Goodbye.
MIKE JOHNSON
Great. Alright.
UNKNOWN SPEAKER 1
What kind of beer you want?
KYLE GETZ
[Kyle chuckles] What kind of beer do you want?
MIKE JOHNSON
A PBR, please. That would be great.
UNKNOWN SPEAKER 1
What do you want?
MIKE JOHNSON
PBR.
UNKNOWN SPEAKER 1
Oh, okay, cool.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
UNKNOWN SPEAKER 1
Rosé.
KYLE GETZ
Y- Yeah. That’d be great.
MIKE JOHNSON
[Mike and audience laugh, audience applauds] They know you, Kyle.
KYLE GETZ
I have a brand to maintain.
MIKE JOHNSON
Right? Exactly.
KYLE GETZ
I didn’t ask for Rosé. Um, I- Yeah, I think- Is it time for the news?
MIKE JOHNSON
Great, sure. Yeah, here’s the news.
[News segment intro plays, sung by MIKE JOHNSON]
Shut your mouth hole it’s time for your ear holes, news, news, news.
MIKE JOHNSON
Great. Uh, news the first. So, apparently, Lil Nas X has a documentary coming out?
KYLE GETZ
I saw that. I mean, good for him, but-
MIKE JOHNSON
…Called “Lil Nas X: Long Live Montero” and it was supposed to premiere at 10pm at Roy Thomson Hall at the Toronto Film Festival this last Saturday night and then it was delayed because someone phoned in a bomb threat.
KYLE GETZ
Mm…
KYLE GETZ
‘Cause Lil Nas X is the problem, I’m sure.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
Uh, but yeah. So, uh, the security team said, quote, “Earlier this evening, we were made aware by the Toronto Police Service of an investigation in the vicinity of the red carpet for the ‘Lil Nas X: Long Live Montero’ screening. Our standard security measures remained in place during this time and the screening commenced with a slight delay.” Someone was quoted as saying that it was a credible threat that was specifically targeted to Lil Nas X because he is a queer person of color.
KYLE GETZ
Wow.
MIKE JOHNSON
And um, so they- they shut it down. So I was like “Okay, how late did that- How late did it start?” It was supposed to start at 10 o’clock, the screening began at 10:30. [Kyle and audience chuckle] So I guess that’s all it takes. [Mike chuckles]
KYLE GETZ
Never get in the way of a gay that’s mildly inconvenienced. [Kyle and Mike Chuckle]
MIKE JOHNSON
Right, yeah. You know some bitch with a clipboard was like “We’re gonna get this figured out.” [audience chuckles]
KYLE GETZ
Um, I’m st- Was there enough goin’ on with that album that we needed a documentary about it?
MIKE JOHNSON
I-
KYLE GETZ
I mean… it was- It was good, but…
MIKE JOHNSON
Well, and also, like, Montero, that was like what, 2021? 2022? I would think that you would want to, like, coordinate it better-
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
-so that, like, the documentary came out, like, earlier.
KYLE GETZ
There’s been bomb threats for years, and it’s finally getting released.
MIKE JOHNSON
Um… but yeah, anyway, so he did a Q&A after the premiere and told the audience that he wants to branch out into [Mike chuckles] folk music or Brazilian funk. [Mike chuckles]
KYLE GETZ
[Kyle chuckles] I almost had him pegged for Brazilian funk. Sure. Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. Anyway, that boy hot. Okay-
KYLE GETZ
Great. [audience chuckles]
MIKE JOHNSON
Uh, news the second. So, first out gay NFL player, and top three people who I want to crush with my- with their thighs, Carl Nassib, is retiring.
KYLE GETZ
Sorry, this is a football guy?
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
Okay.
MIKE JOHNSON
You know this bitch! Look; this bitch. That’s him and his boyfriend.
KYLE GETZ
Oh, the gay one!
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. [audience laughs]
KYLE GETZ
Okay, okay. I’m here with you. Okay, got it.
MIKE JOHNSON
Carl Nassib! Yeah. He played for the Cleveland Browns, Tampa Bay Buccaneers, the Las Vegas Raiders… Thanks, John Paul.
KYLE GETZ
Thank you so much.
JOHN PAUL
You’re welcome.
MIKE JOHNSON
[Mike chuckles] This is so great. Anyway, he said, quote, “Football has given me more than I ever could have imagined. I can truly hang up my helmet for the last time knowing I gave it everything I had.” He’s retiring at the ripe old age of 30. [Mike chuckles]
KYLE GETZ
I mean, don’t stay in football too long; that shit fucks up your head!
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
That knocks your shit around.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
Your brain isn’t supposed to jiggle like that.
MIKE JOHNSON
Keep your head intact and work on that hole instead. Right?
KYLE GETZ
Wow! [Kyle chuckles]
MIKE JOHNSON
Um… yeah, Carl Nassib is retiring. Carl Nassib, sit on my face. [giggles from audience] Okay, news the last?
KYLE GETZ
Yeah!
MIKE JOHNSON
Okay, great. News the last. So, there is a survey from the University of East Anglia, in collaboration with King’s College London and University College London, so all in the UK. They were studying the way that mpox… We’re not supposed to call it “monkeypox,” it’s “mpox”.
KYLE GETZ
Right. Right, right, right.
MIKE JOHNSON
Uh, they were studying the way the mpox spreads but then they got a whole bunch of information about the sex habits of people, because that was the point.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
Um, but they discovered that many gay and bisexual men over 70 have multiple sex partners per month.
KYLE GETZ
Oh, great!
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. There’s-
KYLE GETZ
That’s exciting.
MIKE JOHNSON
There’s hope for us.
KYLE GETZ
I can’t wait to be over 70 and having multiple sex partners. [Mike, Kyle, and audience chuckle]
MIKE JOHNSON
I’m in my 40s and it’s not happening. So, like… [Mike, Kyle, and audience chuckle]
KYLE GETZ
Was this a surprise to them? Like-
MIKE JOHNSON
I mean, there’s just- So, you know that study – I think we talked about it on the show like a million years ago – that was trying to say that, like, the body count of gay people was still in the single digits, and I was like “No it is not”? [Mike and audience chuckle]
KYLE GETZ
Oh. Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
“You are wrong about that.”
KYLE GETZ
That’s a tough pill to swallow. [Kyle chuckles]
MIKE JOHNSON
But this is pointing to that instinct being correct. They spoke to more than 5,000 people and found that straight women over 50 basically don’t bang at all.
KYLE GETZ
Aww.
MIKE JOHNSON
They found that 79% of heterosexual women and half of straight men over 70 had zero sexual partners in the last three weeks.
KYLE GETZ
I mean, I get it.
MIKE JOHNSON
But, by contrast, almost 20% of gay or bi men over the age of 70 reported more than one sex partner in the last three weeks. And they- Only 2% of straight people over 70 reported multiple partners.
KYLE GETZ
Only 2%?
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
Man, those 2% though… they’re livin’ it up. [Mike, Kyle, and audience chuckle] They’re enjoying their life, as we all should be.
MIKE JOHNSON
I legit- Like, I really- I hope that that’s true. You know what I mean? Like… ageism is real, especially in the gay community.
KYLE GETZ
For sure.
MIKE JOHNSON
And the idea that, like, well into your older age you could still be just, like, fuckin’ up a storm is pretty amazing, I think.
KYLE GETZ
That’s why I wanna live at a gay retirement home. [Mike laugh]
MIKE JOHNSON
Oh my god.
KYLE GETZ
I can just fuck everyone. Like, [Mike and Kyle chuckle] they’re all right there.
MIKE JOHNSON
Can you imagine, like, it’s 2070-something maybe and, like, Lady Gaga’s playing in the rec room and, like… [Mike, Kyle, and audience laugh]
KYLE GETZ
Po-po-poker face.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. [Mike chuckles]
KYLE GETZ
Like “I was there. I remember.”
MIKE JOHNSON
You’re eating dinner at four o’clock in the afternoon and reminiscing about Lil Nas X or whoever…
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. Go to the guy next door to get fucked.
MIKE JOHNSON
Right? Right?
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
Oh, apparently even straight old folks homes are just, like, riddled with STIs. [Mike chuckles]
KYLE GETZ
I know, right? Hot.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. Yeah. Uh, anyway, that’s the news, Kyle.
KYLE GETZ
That’s the news! Speaking of the news, I want to thank Patreon? I didn’t have a good segue. That’s okay. Um, I just wanted to say thank you to Patreon because Patreon is the reason that we can even do this tour.
MIKE JOHNSON
True story.
KYLE GETZ
So if you are- Anyone a Patreon here- member here? [claps and cheers from audience]
MIKE JOHNSON
See? And I thought they all came to the Chicago show.
KYLE GETZ
You all know. Um, if you want bonus content, episodes, support us, you can go to patreon.com/gayishpodcast.
MIKE JOHNSON
Absolutely. Ooo, you’re grabbin’ your sign.
KYLE GETZ
It’s time for the topic reveal, I think.
MIKE JOHNSON
[Mike chuckles] Is it? Okay. So, like I said, we, uh-
KYLE GETZ
Your thighs… Sorry, they’re like- They’re- They’re…
MIKE JOHNSON
Here, let me pull my sh-
KYLE GETZ
No. No, no, no, I didn’t- You don’t have to stop. [Mike laughs] They’re just right- They’re just right there lookin’ at me.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. Sorry. Sorry. Uh, yeah, for no good reason, we hide the topic until right now. And so what I want you to do, like Family Feud-style when they turn over the leftover answers and the crowd yells them back, we want you to yell the topic at us on the count of three. Is everybody ready? [agreeance sounds from audience] Great. 3-2-1…
AUDIENCE
Fingering!
MIKE JOHNSON
Fingering. We’re going to talk about fingering. [audience chuckles] Yeeaaaah. [audience cheers and claps, Kyle laughs] Nobody looks uncomfortable about that at all. [Mike laughs]
KYLE GETZ
I’m so excited to talk to you about fingering, Mike.
MIKE JOHNSON
Are you?
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
Great!
KYLE GETZ
Um, also, during the show, when we point at you we want you to say “fingering”, because it’s fun to make people yell “fingering” at you. So…
AUDIENCE
Fingering!
MIKE JOHNSON
Excellent.
KYLE GETZ
Thank you so much. Are you ready for me to start?
MIKE JOHNSON
Um… Oh, well, we were gonna blame this on the Patreon Happy Hour.
KYLE GETZ
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
We asked Patreon Happy Hour, like, “Hey, what are some suggestions for live show topics?” and this one came up. Those happen every quarter, so if you ever want to, like, join us, everyone- every level of Patreon is welcome. And um, so that way we don’t have to be blamed for the topics today.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah, it’s not our fault. We just-
MIKE JOHNSON
Unless you love it. Then, it was totally our idea. [Kyle chuckles]
KYLE GETZ
Um, okay, now are you ready for me to tell you…
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
…about the tips?
MIKE JOHNSON
Tips for…
KYLE GETZ
Sorry.
AUDIENCE
Fingering!
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeaah.
KYLE GETZ
Um, tips for fingering. So, I wanted to start by- Uh, there was a question on askgaymen, on the subreddit askgaymen, asking “any tips for fingering a guy?” The details were “I’m probably gonna finger a dude’s ass in a few days. is there like something that’s not obvious that would help me? idk lol” [Mike and audience laugh] So, this is-
MIKE JOHNSON
“Not obvious”.
KYLE GETZ
Non-obvious tips. The comments were pretty obvious, but we’ll go through those and other tips that I found on the internet. The first one is: be gentle.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yes. Yes! Be gentle.
KYLE GETZ
Sorry, do we need to back up and be like “Fingering, with gay dudes, you stick it their butt sometimes and it can be-”
MIKE JOHNSON
A finger. You put a finger up their butt. I don’t know. [Mike laughs]
KYLE GETZ
Or to- Or- Okay. How many until it’s fisting?
MIKE JOHNSON
Right.
KYLE GETZ
Right. I think it- I think thumb has to be- No, but you can thumb someone and that’s not fisting. So it has to be all five to qualify. I think- I think… So we’re talking four or less fingers in the butt.
MIKE JOHNSON
…Is fingering.
KYLE GETZ
…Is fingering. Right?
MIKE JOHNSON
‘Kay. [agreeance from audience]
KYLE GETZ
I’m asking Mike. [Mike, Kyle, and audience laugh] He’s the one with the microphone. Um, so, yeah, to start off, be gentle. Use lube, and a lot of people in the comments recommended silicone lube.
MIKE JOHNSON
Why?
KYLE GETZ
Because it lasts longer. I think the water stuff you have to reapply.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. But… Okay. That’s th- It doesn’t matter what you’re putting up there. You need to reapply, I think.
KYLE GETZ
There’s- Silicone lube, that lasts for days. You’ll be lubed up tomorrow if you silicone lube. [Kyle and audience chuckle]
MIKE JOHNSON
There was this one time way back in the day when we still worked at [beep sound] that I, um, went to the gym with somebody and he tried to do a handstand and just immediately fell on his ass, and it’s because his hands had gotten sweaty and had lube on them and he just couldn’t get traction.
KYLE GETZ
Oh noooo. [audience and Mike laugh]
MIKE JOHNSON
So yeah, you’re right, it lasts a long time.
KYLE GETZ
It lasts a bit. I like silicone, that’s what I prefer.
MIKE JOHNSON
Okay.
KYLE GETZ
Um, this is the most obvious one: cut your nails.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah!
AUDIENCE MEMBER
Yes.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yes!
KYLE GETZ
Thank- Yes. [audience and Kyle chuckle] Yes.
MIKE JOHNSON
In the fisting episode, which we got a bunch of hate mail about this week from this one dude, so I, like, then went back and relistened to it so that I could- I was all incredulous, I was gonna defend myself. But uh, in that, we said “wear a glove” and that you don’t have to cut your nails, you can just put cotton balls in the tips of the glove and put the glove on.
KYLE GETZ
That’s weird advice for fingering, I think.
MIKE JOHNSON
Think so?
KYLE GETZ
Yes. Yes.
MIKE JOHNSON
Okay.
KYLE GETZ
I think that would be weird to- A gloved, cotton balled hand that you’re fingering with?
MIKE JOHNSON
Hm.
KYLE GETZ
That-
MIKE JOHNSON
I like the gesturing, that’s good. [Mike and audience laugh]
KYLE GETZ
I mean, this is one of the tips: you go in and you kinda go “Oh yeah, that’s- This is how you find the prostate.” Okay. …If he’s laying on his back, and you’re facing him, you go “Eh! Eh,” and that’s how you hit the prostate.
MIKE JOHNSON
Okay. In, palm-up, and then like a “Come here.”
KYLE GETZ
Like a “Come here.” Oh yeah, I think you’re doing this-
MIKE JOHNSON
Sailor. [Mike and Kyle chuckle]
KYLE GETZ
It’s only a few inches deep, so you don’t have to- Like, you don’t have to get all- You don’t have to get in there, you can just stick a finger or two in there and just do a little “Come here.”
MIKE JOHNSON
Unless you’re me. I think my prostate is, like, 14 inches in there because, like… can never find it.
KYLE GETZ
That may be the problem. I don’t think it’s 14 inches deep.
MIKE JOHNSON
Oh, I’m looking too hard.
KYLE GETZ
You’re looking too deep.
MIKE JOHNSON
Okay, great. [Mike, Kyle, and audience chuckle] Um, yeah, it’s not as deep as you think.
KYLE GETZ
Um, in addition to cutting your nails, if you’re not gonna do the weird gloved Q-tip thing then…
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah, cut your nails. Just, like, wash your hands and cut your nails, please.
KYLE GETZ
Cut your nails a day before. File them so there aren’t any sharp edges. And someone said- A tip is: to find out if your nails aren’t filed enough, try to scratch the inside of your mouth. And if you can scratch the inside of your mouth, yeah, that’s… Okay. [chuckles and grumbles from audience] Right? Like, that’s- The inside of your mouth is anus-like. [Mike, Kyle, and audience laugh] It is. Mine is, but that’s a different story. Um, let’s see… Put down a dark towel or waterproof blanket.
MIKE JOHNSON
“A dark towel”.
KYLE GETZ
A dark- Oh, yeah, I mean… you know.
MIKE JOHNSON
I know.
KYLE GETZ
You know.
MIKE JOHNSON
I know.
KYLE GETZ
You know. [Mike laughs] You know. [Kyle chuckles] Um, let’s see… When- I think this is a key one that a lot- Now every time I use my finger to make a point, I’m gonna feel uncomfortable about it. [Mike and audience chuckle] Look… when you insert your finger- [Kyle chuckles] I’m gonna insert my finger in you. Um, when you- Consensually. [Mike and audience chuckle] When you insert your finger – this is a tip from the internet – in the first 30 seconds to a minute, let the receiver just get used to the sensation of having something up there. Start moving once the receiver is a little bit more used to the feeling.
MIKE JOHNSON
‘Kay.
KYLE GETZ
So, you don’t have to dive in and go swimming, you know? Like, you can jump in and kinda hang out there for a second.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. Acclimate.
KYLE GETZ
Acclimate.
MIKE JOHNSON
You know.
KYLE GETZ
Get used to the water.
MIKE JOHNSON
Right.
KYLE GETZ
Feel it out. Well, don’t- Sorry, don’t feel it out. Okay, um, if it gets uncomfortable, if it gets really uncomfortable, stop. It might be a little bit uncomfortable but, if it’s too uncomfortable, stop. And this is a good tip, is that the receiver-
MIKE JOHNSON
It’s a good tip for everything sex, really. [Mike and Kyle chuckle]
KYLE GETZ
For most everything, yeah. Um, whoever is the receiver is the one that is in control. It seems like it’s the opposite but this is how, like, dom/sub things work too.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
Like, the receivers should be the one who is in charge. Um, this is an easy one but a good one: ask if he likes it. I lie when people- You know, if they’re doing something that’s just mediocre and they ask if I like it I say “Yes.”
MIKE JOHNSON
Really?
KYLE GETZ
I don’t want to be mean. [Mike and Kyle laugh] I don’t know. What am I gonna do, like “Nope!”? “How is this?” “Bad. Try it again. Do something different.”
MIKE JOHNSON
“Do better.”
KYLE GETZ
“Do better, differently.” Ummm… let’s see. Uh, when you’re touching his prostate, the type of touch, it’s better to do a deep massage, more of a deeper massage, than a caress.
MIKE JOHNSON
Okay.
KYLE GETZ
So you’re not- You’re not, like, brushing past it, you know, on the way to grocery store. You’re- Deep massage. Like, get in there?
KYLE GETZ
Get in there.
MIKE JOHNSON
Okay.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
Um, and lastly, if- Look, if some poop makes a cameo, it’s no big deal. Get some soap and water.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
You’ll be fine.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah, you’ll be fine.
KYLE GETZ
Um, any other tips, Mike, that you have for fingering?
MIKE JOHNSON
Oh, goodness… I mean, booze helps. [audience laughs]
KYLE GETZ
That’s a good tip. Yeah, for my sex, mostly it’s like “Be drunk.” [Kyle chuckles]
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. Um…
KYLE GETZ
That’s bad to-
MIKE JOHNSON
Okay, so I will say, like, maybe do it in the bath at first? Or at least, like- I don’t know.
KYLE GETZ
To try it out?
MIKE JOHNSON
To try it out.
KYLE GETZ
Oh.
MIKE JOHNSON
Or, like, in the shower. Like-
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
I’m not super into piss play, but one of the things I hear over and over again is, like, “Pee on each other in the shower first.” Because then you’re, like, you’re already in the shower.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
So, if you’re not into it, great. It’s gonna wash away.
KYLE GETZ
Wow. Yeah, if you’re taking a risk and trying piss play and you’re not sure… yeah, shower for sure.
MIKE JOHNSON
But, like, similarly, like, if you’re in the bath or a hot tub then, like, that, I think, feels safer. As a person who’s, like, very worried about the poop part, I think that that makes it safer.
KYLE GETZ
I got fingered in a hot tub. [Mike, Kyle, and audience laugh] I just remembered.
MIKE JOHNSON
Great.
KYLE GETZ
Oh, it was fun.
MIKE JOHNSON
Do you want to share more about that, or-
KYLE GETZ
Um, it was with a hookup buddy who tries to stay after and talk to me and I’m like “I don’t need to know about your job, dude.” Like-
MIKE JOHNSON
“Just shut up and go.”
KYLE GETZ
Yeah, yeah. “Where are your clothes again?” Like “Let’s get-” Anyway, but he’s super hot though.
MIKE JOHNSON
“No, don’t talk to my dog. Get your shit and leave.”
KYLE GETZ
Yeah, yeah. But he invited me over and we had a four-way in the hot tub.
MIKE JOHNSON
Oh… Ooo!
KYLE GETZ
It was fun!
MIKE JOHNSON
Who were the other two?
KYLE GETZ
Uh, I don’t know. [Kyle, Mike, and audience laugh]
MIKE JOHNSON
Oh.
KYLE GETZ
Well, I met them.
MIKE JOHNSON
Great.
KYLE GETZ
…And then I met them.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. Uh, what do you got, Mike?
MIKE JOHNSON
Uh, well, okay, I’m gonna talk you about the history of…
AUDIENCE
Fingering!
MIKE JOHNSON
Except, not really.
KYLE GETZ
I’m warm. [Kyle chuckles] I just got really warm.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. Four-way fingering in a hot tub, and that’s the bar?
KYLE GETZ
That’s the line. Whew, thanks for this rosé. Sorry, you’re gonna talk about not the history of fingering.
MIKE JOHNSON
Well, I am gonna talk- It is related, but I’m gonna talk to you about this kind of fingering. [Mike and audience laugh] Uh, I just flipped off the crowd, everybody at home.
KYLE GETZ
Is that because, like, we’ve been sticking stuff up our butts, including fingers, since forever?
MIKE JOHNSON
Right. Like, have you seen the adorable videos of, like, the monkeys who, like, poke each other in the ass with their fingers? And, like, there’s-
KYLE GETZ
No. [Kyle chuckles]
MIKE JOHNSON
There’s this adorable monkey baby who, like, puts his own finger up his own ass, and then smells it and falls out of the tree.
KYLE GETZ
Ah. [Kyle and Mike chuckle] Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
Anyway, like, the primates have fingers and they put them in things, and that includes each other. So, like, it’s prehistoric. But the finger gesture, as like an insult, goes all the way back to ancient Greece and it was also used in ancient Rome after that. But the thing that I didn’t realize is that it is legit supposed to be the phallus. And, apparently, the fingers next to the middle finger are the testicles. But um, it was used in ancient times as a symbol of sexual intercourse and it was supposed to degrade, intimidate, and threaten the individual receiving the gesture. They had- Their name for the bird was the “katapygori”. [TN: katapygon] “Katapygori”, which is from “kata” meaning “downwards”, and “pugē” meaning “ass”…
KYLE GETZ
Poo gate!?
MIKE JOHNSON
…“rump, buttocks”. Um, but it meant “downwards asshole” is what it meant, and it was supposed to be- It referred to a man who submits to anal penetration. So this was “This is going in your ass.” You’re being fingered by that finger when somebody flips you off.
KYLE GETZ
Hot. [audience laughs]
MIKE JOHNSON
And, um, I just never really thought of it as, like, “Oh, that’s a dick or something that’s meant to go inside of somebody,” but that is the origin of that hand gesture. Um, it came to the United States in the 1890s because of Italian immigration. The Italians have been using it for a long-ass time but it was them moving to the States in the 1890s that, like, made it a thing here. Baseball players- It’s a baseball player, is the first photograph of somebody flipping the camera off, is a baseball team.
KYLE GETZ
Do you know which one? I don’t know any baseball teams.
MIKE JOHNSON
No.
KYLE GETZ
I don’t know why I asked that question.
MIKE JOHNSON
I don’t know the answer because I didn’t write in down.
KYLE GETZ
Didn’t care? Yeah. [Mike chuckles] Yeah. Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
Um, and then- I think it’s- I thought it was really interesting, reading up on this, that apparently in Canada it’s your right to flip people off.
KYLE GETZ
Oh, is that like free speech?
MIKE JOHNSON
There was a court decision in 2023, just this year in February, that said- There was a Canadian man who was accused of criminal harassment because he flipped people off, and the judge said, quote, “To be abundantly clear, it is not a crime to give someone the finger,” Flipping the proverbial bird is a God-given, Charter-enshrined right that belongs to every red-blooded Canadian.” [audience applauds, Mike chuckles] “It may not be civil, it may not be polite, it may not be gentlemanly. Nevertheless, it does not trigger criminal liability.”
KYLE GETZ
Okay. [Kyle chuckles] It’s our right to flip people off. I guess so.
MIKE JOHNSON
The man was acquitted. Uh, so then that got me on down this thing of, like, other kinds of fingering, and by that I mean other kinds of, like, obscene gestures. Apparently, the V-sign, if your palm is toward you, is super offensive in Commonwealth nations. So we’re talking like New Zealand, Australia, not Canada, which I don’t understand why not. But yeah, so, a V out is great because that’s a victory signal or a peace sign, but the other direction is like you’re flipping people off. And uh, which apparently some of our politicians in the past have gotten in trouble because they didn’t know the difference.
KYLE GETZ
Oh. [Mike and Kyle chuckle]
MIKE JOHNSON
Um, there’s the dulya which is the fig sign, and it looks like this. If you do the, like, the “I’ve got your nose, little baby,” thing- [Kyle and audience chuckle]
KYLE GETZ
That’s perfectly clear for our listening audience, I’m sure.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. But in, like, in Russian countries, Russian-speaking countries especially, this is a similar like “Fuck you,” kind of a gesture.
KYLE GETZ
Oh, wow.
MIKE JOHNSON
It’s also used that way in Indonesia, Turkey, Korea, China, Mongolia, and Hungary. Then there’s the sign of the horns, like this. Like if you think of, like, a death metal band doing-
KYLE GETZ
Or you’re making a dog- little dog with your-
MIKE JOHNSON
Or like that. Same thing.
KYLE GETZ
This is UT, hook ‘em.
MIKE JOHNSON
Hook ‘em horns. Apparently-
KYLE GETZ
Which, they told us not to do that in Spain.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
They were like “No.”
MIKE JOHNSON
I’m glad that you said it before I said it, Kyle. Don’t do that in Spain or in Italian. Uh, which, part of it is because it means you’re calling somebody a cuck. It’s about-
KYLE GETZ
Oh. Also hot.
MIKE JOHNSON
It’s about-
KYLE GETZ
This is great!
MIKE JOHNSON
It’s about cuckolding. And uh, in fact, the words- The slang for “cuck” or “cuckold” in Italian, Greek, and Spanish is “cornuta” or “cornuto”, and that means “horn”.
KYLE GETZ
Hm.
MIKE JOHNSON
So you’re calling somebody a cuck. Uh, there’s the moutza which’s in Greece, which is five fingers spread wide and the palm pushed towards somebody. Or you can do a double moutza, which looks like jazz hands to me. But, like- [Mike chuckles]
KYLE GETZ
Oh, that, to me, is like Hadouken! What is it on Street Fighter? [Mike laughs]
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. It does look like that, you’re super right. But yeah, it’s a very similar obscene, obscene gesture. I guess thumbs up is bad in in Iran and Iraq because it means “Shove it up your ass,” or “Go fuck yourself.”
KYLE GETZ
We have a lot of, like, ways to say like “Go fuck yourself,” or “I’m gonna fuck you,” or “I’m gonna fuck someone.” Like, we have a lot of hand things that say that.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yep. And the “okay” symbol is not okay in Turkey, Tunisia, and Greece, or in parts of the Middle East because that is a butthole and you’re saying that you are a homo.
KYLE GETZ
Because- Because of the butthole?!
MIKE JOHNSON
Because of the butthole.
KYLE GETZ
But- [Kyle scoffs]
MIKE JOHNSON
[Mike laughs] That’s a thing you’re into. That’s what you’re saying with “okay”.
KYLE GETZ
But, Mike, we all have butts.
MIKE JOHNSON
We all have butts.
KYLE GETZ
Everybody has a butt.
MIKE JOHNSON
Uh, and then last but certainly not least in this, like, other kinds of fingering. I’m super excited by this [Mike chuckles] thing that I found-
KYLE GETZ
Okay.
MIKE JOHNSON
Um, and- Okay, what’s this called, Kyle?
KYLE GETZ
That’s “One in the pink, two in the stink.”
MIKE JOHNSON
It’s called the…
KYLE GETZ
Oh, the shocker!
MIKE JOHNSON
It’s called the “shocker”.
KYLE GETZ
I knew it before you said it! [audience chuckles]
MIKE JOHNSON
This is this is the shocker, also colloquially said as “Two in the pink and one in the stink.” [Mike chuckles] Which, very clinically, Wikipedia says “[which is] the number of fingers inserted into the vagina and [into the] anus respectively.” [Mike, Kyle, and audience laugh] They also make it clear that, if you put your thumb, you’re also saying that you’re willing to stimulate the clitoris while you’re doing that.
KYLE GETZ
Oh! Everyone… [Mike chuckles] put out your thumb when you’re doing the shocker! Focus on her pleasure. [Kyle chuckles]
MIKE JOHNSON
Yep.
KYLE GETZ
…For once.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
So, um, I found- [Mike chuckles] I can’t- It makes me giggle. Uh, there’s this whole history to it. Apparently there was a bunch of high school students in this – uh, I think was here in California – that really made the shocker famous. And that was back in the late 90s and early 2000s. But the thing that I just keep laughing about is this thing I found on collegehumor.com, which is variations of the shocker.
KYLE GETZ
Oh. I didn’t know we needed that.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah, it’s: one finger, that’s the teaser; the pleaser, two fingers; the shocker; and the Spocker. [Mike, Kyle, and audience laugh, a cheer from the audience]
MIKE JOHNSON
They also go on to say “the rocker” and “the showstopper” but just the fact that is was “the teaser”, “the pleaser”, “the shocker”, and “the Spocker” makes me so happy. And uh, on melmagazine.com there’s this whole article and it’s called “Can the ‘Shocker’ Be Redeemed?” and they talked to this woman named Lauren who’s 29 and they were asking her “Have you ever actually done the shocker?” And uh, somebody on Reddit said, quote, “The name is awful, but the act is fun!” “Female here. Tried it and though I’m turned off by the name the act I so good” “My husband does [it] to me on a regular basis, I can knock out an orgasm fast that way.”
KYLE GETZ
[Kyle laughs] When you need to knock one right out!
MIKE JOHNSON
[Mike chuckles] Uh, but this Spocker… which I can’t get over, especially because Ethan Peck is fuckin’ hot and he plays to the new Spock and, like, he can do whatever he wants to to me.
KYLE GETZ
I only know that because, whenever he’s on screen, you go “Hot Spock!” [Mike and audience chuckle]
MIKE JOHNSON
Because that boy hot! Um, but she says that she and her husband have even tried the Spocker, which is- We’ll put it on social media, but it’s Leonard Nimoy’s famous “Live long and prosper,” hand signal from Star Trek. And uh, she said, quote, “If the shocker don’t rock her, Spocker.” [Mike, Kyle, and audience laugh]
KYLE GETZ
That’s beautiful. Anyway, that’s different kinds of fingering, Kyle.
KYLE GETZ
Um, well, you know, what I’m gonna tell you about… is some gayta.
MIKE JOHNSON
Gayta. Everybody loves the numbers.
KYLE GETZ
Yep. So I’m going to tell you gayta on…
AUDIENCE
Fingering!
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeaaaah.
KYLE GETZ
Um, but to start off, I need to ask a question.
MIKE JOHNSON
‘Kay.
KYLE GETZ
What is sex?
MIKE JOHNSON
Oh, God, Kyle. What is anything?
KYLE GETZ
[Kyle chuckles] What is life?
MIKE JOHNSON
What is life?
KYLE GETZ
What is this world?
MIKE JOHNSON
What is sex? So, we’ve talked about this a few times on the show but I have boiled it down so that my personal definition of sex is “Anything anyone does with someone else that could lead to them having an orgasm.” So, for most people, that is some kind of a physical stimulation of the genitals in a way that could lead them to get there. Now, I feel problematic about that, because I don’t think that orgasm is necessarily, like, the end-all be-all reason for sex. Sometimes it’s nice to, like, just get fucked and not cum, right?
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
And that’s totally valid. But I think that anything that you could do with someone else, that one of you is gonna have an orgasm, I think that that’s what counts is sex. So making out, no; making out with their dick, yes. [Kyle and audience chuckle]
KYLE GETZ
Well, this study tried to decide “What do people count as sex?”
MIKE JOHNSON
Great. Okay.
KYLE GETZ
So we’ll try to answer this question, at least according to what – in general, on average – what people think. This study is called the “Sexual Behavior, Definitions of Sex, and the Role of Self-Partner Context Among Lesbian, Gay, and Bisexual Adults”. This is by Kelsey K. Sewell, Larissa A. McGarrity… and Donald S. Strassberg…
MIKE JOHNSON
Nailed it. [Mike and Kyle chuckle]
KYLE GETZ
…in the Journal of Sex Research, in 2016. They asked people the question “Would you say you ‘had sex’ with another person if the most intimate behavior you engaged in was …” blank.
MIKE JOHNSON
Okay, great.
KYLE GETZ
And then they had filled in the blank with 11 different possible things.
MIKE JOHNSON
Great.
KYLE GETZ
And people said “Yes,” or “No,” “Is this sex?”
MIKE JOHNSON
Okay.
KYLE GETZ
So, for men, there are two things that – men having sex with men – there are two things that hit 90%.
MIKE JOHNSON
‘Kay.
KYLE GETZ
And everything else was less than two-thirds of people thought it was sex.
MIKE JOHNSON
‘Kay.
KYLE GETZ
So there was a clear two things that were sex. …Do you know what they are?
MIKE JOHNSON
P in the A.
KYLE GETZ
Fuckin’ and being fucked.
MIKE JOHNSON
Okay, great.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. So those two things, for men who have sex with men: insertive and receptive anal intercourse. A little over 90% of people said that “Yes, that is sex.” Who are the 10% that said “No, that’s not sex”? That’s- I don’t- [audience laughs] I don’t know why we’re not really sold that that’s sex.
MIKE JOHNSON
Oh my god, maybe the- Mormons. [audience laughs and hollers] …I had- There was this Mormon girl in my high school who swear to god that there was this thing among Mormon kids, that fucking in the ass didn’t count in the eyes of Jesus, so that was okay.
KYLE GETZ
Mmmmm…
MIKE JOHNSON
That it was the P in the V sex that they had to be worried about; that the P in the A was fine.
AUDIENCE MEMBER
The loophole!
KYLE GETZ
I didn’t- [Mike chuckles] I did not consider how many Mormons were in this survey. [Mike laughs] But that- But that’s not ten per- I don’t know. Anyway, um, there are three things that were that over 50% of people said “Yes, it’s sex,” and that’s 69ing…
MIKE JOHNSON
Great, yeah.
KYLE GETZ
…that’s blow jobs, and-
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. Which is just half the number of blowjobs of a 69.
KYLE GETZ
…Yes. [Mike and Kyle chuckle] There’s 69 and then half of 69, which is just a blow job. Um, and then rimming. Those are the three things that over 50% of people said that “Yes, it is sex.” So, not on the-
MIKE JOHNSON
Should we start calling blowjobs a “34 and a 1/2″? [Mike, Kyle, and audience chuckle]
KYLE GETZ
I like it.
MIKE JOHNSON
Okay, great.
KYLE GETZ
I really like it. Um, so, fingering, only 42% of people said that “Yes, that was sex.”
MIKE JOHNSON
…I mean, I disagree, but okay.
KYLE GETZ
Do you think fingering is sex?
MIKE JOHNSON
I think I- …Yes.
KYLE GETZ
Okay.
MIKE JOHNSON
And here’s the thing: I might have- Like, my instinct might be to say “No,” but I recapitulated just a little bit ago my personal definition of sex, and you can for sure make somebody cum just with your fingers. So it’s sex.
KYLE GETZ
There is- The second to lowest one on this list is “dildo in anus”. [Mike and audience laugh] 39% of people said “Yes, that is sex.” If you put a dildo in my ass..? You- We had sex. Like that’s what- I’m one of the 39% of people.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
I- Yeah. Um, for-
MIKE JOHNSON
But, what is a dildo but a really big finger? [Kyle and audience laugh]
KYLE GETZ
It’s basically fingering me with a plastic… you know. Um, for women however, women having sex with women, there was nothing that hit over 90%. No one sex act was- No one act was over 90% said “Yep, that’s definitely sex.” So, things ranged anywhere from 23% to 80%, but it was just this kind of big range of… Why are you giving me that look?
MIKE JOHNSON
I just- Nothing’s good enough, I guess. I don’t know. [Kyle and audience chuckle]
KYLE GETZ
Well, okay, so here’s what the study said, and it’s really smart so I’m just gonna read it instead of trying to say it in my own words. “If penile penetration is a crucial component of definitions of sex for most people and there are no behaviors in which women in same-sex encounters engage involving penile penetration, it is reasonable that no gold standard would exist for these women”. So it basically- Like, we think of putting a penis in something as sex.
MIKE JOHNSON
Okay.
KYLE GETZ
And, anything else, we don’t, or a lot of people don’t, consider that sex. So it makes sense, with two women, there’s just a spectrum of what people consider might be sex.
MIKE JOHNSON
I’m back on board. Okay, that makes sense. It’s- Lesbians ruined the curve on that one.
KYLE GETZ
Yep.
MIKE JOHNSON
Okay, got it.
KYLE GETZ
Um, 80% of people said 69ing was sex, and that is the top answer.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. Okay. Did scissoring make the list? I’m-
KYLE GETZ
…Yes, scissoring made the list and 69% said it’s- [Mike, Kyle, and audience chuckle]
MIKE JOHNSON
Nailed it.
KYLE GETZ
It’s sex. [audience applauds]
MIKE JOHNSON
Nailed it.
KYLE GETZ
Love that for them. Um, let’s see… Other things that made above 70% were: eating out, dildo in vagina, double ended dildo. Um, something that-
MIKE JOHNSON
They got real specific.
KYLE GETZ
They got real specific.
MIKE JOHNSON
Like “hanging upside down in the garage”… Like- [Kyle and audience laugh] ‘Kay, great.
KYLE GETZ
Um, let’s see… Fingering also had 69% said that that is sex. Uh, mutual- Oh, “mutual fingering”. That is… uh- Oh, no, sorry, fingering a vagina is 69%, mutually fingering each other’s vaginas is 62%, and fingering their ass is one of the lowest ones at 48%.
MIKE JOHNSON
‘Kay.
KYLE GETZ
So we- I don’t know. We don’t really think of… On average, it is not one of the top sex acts.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeaaah. Okay.
KYLE GETZ
We don’t necessarily think of- Oh my god, thank you. We do not necessarily think of, um, fingering as sex.
MIKE JOHNSON
…Is that water? [audience and Mike chuckle]
KYLE GETZ
In a little tiny glass.
KYLE GETZ
Have a sip and see if that’s water. [Kyle chuckles]
MIKE JOHNSON
Mm, no, but thanks. We do need shots for everyone. It’s time to take shots.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
So that’s helpful. It’s just GBH maybe. It is LA. [Mike, Kyle, and audience chuckle]
KYLE GETZ
Wow. Um, that’s the gayta.
MIKE JOHNSON
Awesome. Well, I just had- This is a little quick segment, but I do want to talk about “Is…”
AUDIENCE
FINGERING.
MIKE JOHNSON
Is fingering safe.
KYLE GETZ
Mm!
MIKE JOHNSON
In my head, I thought- Oh, that’s tequila. I can smell it now.
KYLE GETZ
Yep. [Mike and audience chuckles]
MIKE JOHNSON
Uh, is fingering safe? So, I think of most things that are, like, masturbation, handjobs, even oral sex I think of as being, like, super-duper mostly safe.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
And I had, in my head this idea that fingering was, like, mostly without risk at all. And I think that’s true, but there is a big asterisk, and that’s just what I wanted to share with everybody. The Journal of Sexually Transmitted Infections had this study, and the objective was, quote, “To determine whether patients with genital warts carry … (HPV) DNA on their fingers.”
KYLE GETZ
Ohh. I wouldn’t have thought about that.
MIKE JOHNSON
And uh, so they had 14 men and eight women with HPV, with genital warts actually, and they had samples taken from genital lesions, their fingertips, and the tips of their fingernails. And then they studied those samples for the presence of HPV DNA and the results were the HPV DNA was detected in all of the female samples – fingers – and 13 out of 14 of the men.
KYLE GETZ
Wow.
MIKE JOHNSON
So, it was detected in the finger brush samples of three women and nine men, and the same HPV type was identified in genital and hand samples in one woman and five men. The conclusion was that they’ve identified that hand carriage of genital HPV is possible. “Although sexual intercourse is considered the usual mode of [transmission] genital HPV infection, our findings raise the possibility of transmission by finger-genital contact.” So… just be careful.
KYLE GETZ
Be careful. I thought one of the biggest risks is, like, if you, like, kind of scratch or tear up the inside of your butt, then that makes- Like, lesions and stuff make you more likely to get, like, STIs, or HIV, or whatever.
MIKE JOHNSON
I think that’s true, probably. That sounds- Let’s just pass it off as fact, Kyle.
KYLE GETZ
That sounds factual.
MIKE JOHNSON
We’re doctors. We’re basically doctors. No, but if people followed your, like, tip-top top tips from the beginning, they cut their nails and it’s fine.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. Um, I guess, in a similar vein, there’s, um… I have something from myvagina.com that- [Mike and audience laugh]
MIKE JOHNSON
Do you have that bookmarked, Kyle?
KYLE GETZ
Oh yeah. Oh, it’s my daily read. They give you vagina affirmations.
MIKE JOHNSON
Great.
KYLE GETZ
No. I don’t know. Um, uh, but another question: can fingering result in pregnancy?
MIKE JOHNSON
…Uh… [Kyle and audience chuckle]
KYLE GETZ
You would think “No,” except why did I ask then, if that’s the answer?
MIKE JOHNSON
I think probably, yes. I’m gonna guess “Yes.”
KYLE GETZ
Um, it can’t unless…
MIKE JOHNSON
I went to Zillah public schools, so… [Mike laughs]
KYLE GETZ
Oh. I went to school in Texas.
MIKE JOHNSON
Okay, great.
KYLE GETZ
They teach you “Just don’t.” Like, that’s sex education, “No.” Um… You can get pregnant if you’re ovulating or near-just-past ovulation and are fertile, and there is live sperm on the fingers doing the fingering.
MIKE JOHNSON
Great.
KYLE GETZ
So that’s a really specific set of scenarios that probably won’t happen.
MIKE JOHNSON
How long can- How long can sperm live on your finger?
KYLE GETZ
That’s a good question. I don’t know. Myvagina.com didn’t have any more details, [Mike and Kyle chuckle] so I have no idea. Okay, I am going to… tell you about finger length.
MIKE JOHNSON
Finger length?
KYLE GETZ
Yes.
MIKE JOHNSON
Is this the whole, like, “If this finger’s longer than that finger, you’re a faggot,” or whatever?
KYLE GETZ
Um, almost. It’s if your index and ring finger, it’s the comparative size of those. So…
MIKE JOHNSON
Wow. Yours are like the same length, and mine- Like, whatever knowledge you’re gonna drop on me…
KYLE GETZ
Mine are not the same length. It’s about your left hand, actually.
MIKE JOHNSON
‘Kay.
KYLE GETZ
Um, anyway, let me tell you the information before we start comparing.
MIKE JOHNSON
Okay, great. A study by researchers from the University of Essex, published in the Archives of Sexual Behavior, they looked at 32 identical twins… which, I love twin studies because that’s, like, you control for so much in that.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
Uh, but the sexual orientations were different. They looked at the relationship between the index finger and the ring finger. And so, for women – typically, for women – their index finger and ring finger are similar in length. For men, there is a greater difference between your index finger and your ring finger. And we’re, like, talking centimeters here. So, like, you’re not- It’s not like- You know, you’re not gonna be able to look at your fingers and know if you’re, like, stereotypically woman or man fingers. But, so women typically had index and ring fingers similar in length. Lesbians had more male-typical finger length than their straight cotwin…
MIKE JOHNSON
Okay.
KYLE GETZ
…but just in their left hand. So, on their left hand, their ring and index finger were more simil- or, more different in length.
MIKE JOHNSON
Wild. Wild. Okay.
KYLE GETZ
Uh, so the possibility is that lesbians are exposed to testosterone in the womb and that’s one of the reasons that they’re a lesbian. Um, for gay men-
MIKE JOHNSON
But only on the left side?
KYLE GETZ
But only on the left side, got the testosterone.
MIKE JOHNSON
That’s really confusing.
KYLE GETZ
I have no idea. Um, and for gay men there was no statistical difference. So there’s nothing- We were looking at our fingers with no reason. [audience laughs]
MIKE JOHNSON
I need to cut my fingernails. Anyway-
KYLE GETZ
Oh, don’t finger me yet. [Mike laughs]
MIKE JOHNSON
Ooh!
KYLE GETZ
Oh!
MIKE JOHNSON
Thanks, Josh!
JOSH
You’re welcome. [Mike chuckles]
KYLE GETZ
Um… Oh, thank you.
MIKE JOHNSON
Gonna try to take advantage of us later, maybe.
KYLE GETZ
Finger me in an alleyway. Um… another example. This is just another example where- We’ve seen this in other cases, where just what happens, like, prenatally, influences- might be one of the reasons we’re gay, might influence why- like, our sexual orientation.
MIKE JOHNSON
Sure.
KYLE GETZ
So, that’s your finger length.
MIKE JOHNSON
That’s so interesting.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. Isn’t that wild?
MIKE JOHNSON
I don’t… There’s so many things that, like, you know, big- You know, what big feet means. …Big shoes, but also a giant horse cock. But no, like, but there’s-
KYLE GETZ
But we just talked about that on our episode about…
MIKE JOHNSON
It’s not true.
KYLE GETZ
…somethin’ else.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah, there’s, like, height apparently actually might have something to do with penis size, but, like, just barely.
KYLE GETZ
Oh, yeah, I talked about that. Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
But, like, the way that our bodies work is really wild. And the fact that there’s just, like, some random-ass finger length difference can, like, help you figure out if somebody’s a lesbian or not… I just-
KYLE GETZ
Yeah, just for lesbians though. That’s so weird.
MIKE JOHNSON
Um… Okay, Kyle.
KYLE GETZ
Okay, Mike.
MIKE JOHNSON
I have to figure out how to do this. I didn’t practice this.
KYLE GETZ
Oh. Wow. That makes me nervous already.
MIKE JOHNSON
I did so much thinking about fingering on the way here. [Kyle and audience chuckle]
KYLE GETZ
I mean, whom among us, you know?
MIKE JOHNSON
And, on the plane, I decided to bone up on words that are parts of the body that are also verbs. [Kyle chuckles]
KYLE GETZ
Okay.
MIKE JOHNSON
And I wrote a love letter to Kyle and Gayish.
KYLE GETZ
Aww. [audience awws]
MIKE JOHNSON
And here we go. So, I’ve got to hand it to you, Kyle: when we were first eyeing the idea of starting a podcast, I wasn’t sure we’d be able to stomach each other this long. [audience chuckles] Turns out we rarely butt heads though, and when we do we work it out. Remember when we were just starting to nose our way into the podcasting scene? It seems like just yesterday we were a baby podcast teething on our first shitty microphone. I really wondered who would listen to a couple of assholes jaw on about gay shit. I was also nervous, maybe the subject matter would taint our professional reputations… [audience laughs and applauds] and we’d get the shaft. But we elbowed our way up the charts to become a decently-sized podcast and eventually I muscled you into doing a tour. I agreed to head up all the live show preparations. At first, I wondered who would shoulder the burden for paying for all this but, because so many people on Patreon have decided to toe the line and back us, we’ve been able to foot the bill for tour costs. It’s expensive, which is why I’m going to brain anybody I find out that’s decided to hamstring us, and scalp their tickets. I really thumb my nose at that kind of selfishness. After the show, let’s belly up to the bar and order drinks and get some food. Spit your gum out or gut it before our order arrives. And let’s make sure the food isn’t too hot; I don’t want to burn myself and then tongue that gross loose material on the roof of my mouth all night. When we’re hanging out with all these listeners later, if I mouth you the words… [Mike silently mouths words] it means I want to neck with the boy I’m talking to or possibly even throat him. [audience applauds and cheers] I probably won’t fist him though. [audience and Kyle chuckle] Or maybe I will; there’s more than one way to skin a twink… er, a cat. [audience laughs] I’ll decide that after I start…
AUDIENCE
Fingering!
MIKE JOHNSON
…fingering him. Anyway, thanks for being my friend and going on this journey with me, Kyle. Every week we hole up in the studio and put this shit together. I like making you laugh or cock your head to the side in confusion. If I rib you too much for having a dog that won’t heel, or not for being able to palm a basketball, just knee me and I’ll stop dicking around. This podcast is still the most important thing I’ve ever been a part of, and let’s face it, I could never bridge the gap between sexuality and actuality without you.
KYLE GETZ
Wow! [audience applauds, awws, and cheers] That was beautiful.
MIKE JOHNSON
Now, how many body part verbs did I use?
KYLE GETZ
Oh.
MIKE JOHNSON
Anybody wanna guess?
AUDIENCE MEMBER
69!
KYLE GETZ
69 is the guess. [Kyle and Mike chuckle]
MIKE JOHNSON
Fuck. I fucked up. I should’ve done 69. [Mike laughs] Uh, 39, Kyle. I did 39.
KYLE GETZ
Wow. What does it mean to “brain” someone?
MIKE JOHNSON
To “brain” somebody? Hit them in the head.
KYLE GETZ
Oh, I thought it meant- What’s that cal- Oh “teabagging”. Never mind. [audience and Mike laugh]
KYLE GETZ
Sorry. Was thinking of the wrong thing. Um, should I- Should I tell you somethin’ else?
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah! Let’s do it. I have this- In my notes, it says we’re gonna talk about assorted…
AUDIENCE
Fingering!
MIKE JOHNSON
Assorted sorted fingering. Kyle…
KYLE GETZ
Yeah! Assorted- Well, my first assorted fingering…
MIKE JOHNSON
Right.
KYLE GETZ
Um… National Fingering Day? [oohs and a “What!?” from the audience] There are- Right? [Mike laughs] There are conflicting reports about when National Fingering Day is, so we need to get to the “bottom” of this. [audience and Mike laugh] Um, Urban Dictionary says it’s on April 15th, because the definition of National Fingering Day, on Urban Dictionary, is “On april 15th single or taken grab a bitch and go at it”. [Mike laughs] Well, I don’t know about that, Urban Dictionary, but… Um, on whatnationaldayisit.com it says April 19th, so maybe National Fingering Week? We got a week in there?
MIKE JOHNSON
Okay. I support Fingering Week
KYLE GETZ
Fingering Week? [Kyle chuckles]
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
It should be five days! [Mike and audience laugh]
MIKE JOHNSON
Or 10.
KYLE GETZ
Or 10. Or 10, or 10. Or 10, if you’re Jewish. [Mike laughs] Um, okay- No. The real topic I’m gonna talk about is: is it gay for a guy to…
AUDIENCE
Finger!
KYLE GETZ
…himself? So, this was a post to random-
MIKE JOHNSON
Is it gay for a guy to finger himself?
KYLE GETZ
This was a post to the subreddit RandomQuestion and- Wow, you’re baffled. Why- This is an easy answer, to me.
MIKE JOHNSON
“If you bang your clone, is it masturbation?” This is like- These are the questions.
KYLE GETZ
Okay, no. “If you masturbate, is it gay?” Like, no. Like… is-
MIKE JOHNSON
Is it- It is jerking somebody off.
KYLE GETZ
It’s true.
MIKE JOHNSON
Go ahead. Go ahead. I interrupted.
KYLE GETZ
No, no, no. Um, the answers to the question- No, that was the question. So- [Mike laughs] What?
MIKE JOHNSON
Do I- Okay. …No. And here’s the thing: I think- Okay, straight guys, I hear you also have a prostate and that it is good, and you should let your lady play with it. And if you need to play with it yourself first, great, you should. That is not gay.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
So we- Like, so what if it was? You should be okay with it being gay, straight guys, because there’s nothing wrong with being gay, but don’t not finger yourself because you think it’s gay, because it’s not.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
But it should be. I don’t know what I’m saying anymore. [Mike and audience laugh]
KYLE GETZ
No, no, you were there all the way until the end. Yeah, no, I think that’s true. The people on the internet were surprisingly chill about it four people said “No, it is not gay,” two people said “Yes,” and one person said “It depends.”
MIKE JOHNSON
Okay.
KYLE GETZ
I didn’t- This answer didn’t make much sense; I don’t know what it “depends” on. [Mike chuckles] Um, the people that said “No,” said- One of the answers I thought was very eloquent: “There’s a difference between what you want to do sexually and who you want to do it with. What you want to do has no bearing on your sexuality. Who you want to do it with is the only thing that does. If you’re a guy and not attracted to other guys then you’re not gay. Full stop.”
MIKE JOHNSON
Agreed.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. I thought that was a really smart thing. [audience applauds] Someone else – “Is it gay for a guy to finger himself?” – someone else said “No. Your g spot is up there, happy hunting!!” [Mike and audience laugh]
MIKE JOHNSON
I’m still looking. [Mike, Kyle, and audience laugh]
KYLE GETZ
I swear it’s there.
MIKE JOHNSON
Okay, great.
KYLE GETZ
You just gotta… find the right person, with the right sized finger? Find a lesbian? Make sure her fingers are even? I don’t know. Um, yeah, I think you’re I think you’re right on that we assign so much gayness to butt stuff, and it shouldn’t be that way. But then that creates this whole taboo around butt s- I mean, you even talked about, in some of the hand signals, that, like, doing a certain hand signal, it’s gay- it means “You’re gay,” because it’s a butt and butts are “gay”. And I think we need to- You’re right.
MIKE JOHNSON
Like, if flipping somebody off is “This is a dick and I’m gonna put it in your ass, and that makes you gay…” it’s your finger, dude.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. Yeah, yeah. “You’re so gay that I’m fingering you.” Like..? [Mike and Kyle chuckle] Yeah. So I agree with you and this smart commenter that it’s not gay to put your finger in your butt. Especially if you’re a cis dude, you have a prostate up there and that feels good to touch.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yep. Yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep.
KYLE GETZ
Do you like fingering?
MIKE JOHNSON
Uuumm… well…
KYLE GETZ
Well..?
AUDIENCE MEMBER
It’s broken.
MIKE JOHNSON
My prostate is broken, that’s absolutely true. [someone cheers] I do, and I think, um- Uh, first, I think that, like, it’s a super important part of anal. Like, I-
KYLE GETZ
It is?
MIKE JOHNSON
I had a friend with benefits last year, last summer, who was, like, surprised that I was being a gentle top and warming him up first. And I was like “That’s not a- Like, tops don’t do that? Because I should do. Like, get ready.” Like “My dick is bigger than this so, like, let’s start with this.”
KYLE GETZ
See, I get myself ready.
MIKE JOHNSON
Oh, well, okay.
KYLE GETZ
I don’t need a man! Well, until I do. [Mike and audience chuckle]
MIKE JOHNSON
You also have a tiny butthole, right? So, like-
KYLE GETZ
That’s true. So I gotta do some- I gotta do prep work before he gets there.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
And so, by that time…
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Okay.
KYLE GETZ
Toss it in me… [Mike laughs] bro.
MIKE JOHNSON
Okay. Alright.
KYLE GETZ
What?
MIKE JOHNSON
No, I think- I think it’s nice. I think that it’s like a… I don’t know. It’s a very intimate act, that’s for sure.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
And can be hot, and fun, and part of the process. So yeah. As we’re getting fingered, I don’t know- I don’t- Okay, first, I don’t really like dildos. And fingers aren’t dildos, I’m not, like, equating that, but, like, there’s definitely something about, like, the feeling. Like, if I can feel his fingernails or feel, like, the skin is different- Like, your finger skin is kind of rough, or can be depending on the dude.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
That doesn’t feel great.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
Um, I don’t know. How about- Like, how about you?
KYLE GETZ
There’s a- I agree. I think there are a lot of ways it can go wrong. So, I- [Kyle chuckles] I think there are more ways it can go wrong than right. So, receiving, I don’t love it. I’ve done it a couple times with, like, partners that I trust, and it felt, like, super good because they were just finding that… You know, they were doing the “Come hither,” motion just right. Um, but I actually really like fingering guys.
MIKE JOHNSON
You’ve said that before, on the show. Again, I relistened to the fisting episode because I was mad that that person was angry at us, and, um-
KYLE GETZ
Good reason to do anything.
MIKE JOHNSON
But you said in there that, like, you forget how much you like fingering somebody until you do it.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah! Yeah, yeah! It’s a lot of fun! It’s like… I don’t know, it’s a whole different world that you don’t usually live in. It’s like you see things from the whole different side of the world.
MIKE JOHNSON
I was married to a woman, so I-
KYLE GETZ
Ohhhhh. That’s right.
MIKE JOHNSON
A big “Yes,” to that, but have you ever fingered a lady?
KYLE GETZ
I have not.
MIKE JOHNSON
A vagina?
KYLE GETZ
Oh, yes, I did! Oh yeah! Oh my god.
MIKE JOHNSON
‘Cause if you were gonna go with “I have not,” I was gonna say “We talked about this at breakfast and you said you did, you fuckin’ liar!”
KYLE GETZ
And yes I did. God. [audience and Mike laugh] I need to apologize to my high school girlfriend who I tried to finger once. [audience chuckles, someone cheers] No one had any fun. It was- It was horr- It was the- It was so bad. It lasted for like 20 seconds and it was like “Nope, stop. Done.” Like, I didn’t- I had no idea what was going on.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. Well, it sounds like less than ideal for her as well.
KYLE GETZ
Oh yeah! Oh yeah. No, worse for her, I think, than for me. But I did not enjoy it. What- So- But you fingered your wife? [Kyle chuckles] That’s a weird thing just to ask a person?
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah, I mean, like, I did. I did. Absolutely. And, like, the thing- Okay, vaginas are great, Kyle. The reason vaginas are great is they’re self-lubricating.
KYLE GETZ
Oh. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. That’s not- Butts don’t do that.
MIKE JOHNSON
Butts don’t do that!
KYLE GETZ
Well, any kind of lubricant you find is… an accident. [Mike and Kyle chuckle]
MIKE JOHNSON
It’s leftovers. [audience and Kyle laugh]
KYLE GETZ
Whoops!
MIKE JOHNSON
Oopsie! Uh, but yeah. Yes. Yes, I absolutely did. It was fun. I thought it was fun.
KYLE GETZ
You liked it?
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah! Why not?
KYLE GETZ
Huh! Would recommend?
MIKE JOHNSON
Sure.
KYLE GETZ
Okay. Alright.
MIKE JOHNSON
Don’t knock it ‘til you’ve tried it, Kyle.
KYLE GETZ
I think I- Oh, I did, and I knock it. [Mike laughs] I fully knock it. Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
Uh, alright, did we do it?
KYLE GETZ
I think we did it.
MIKE JOHNSON
Um, so, in just a second we’re gonna take a break, but we’re not going anywhere so don’t leave. People in New York fucking got up and left [audience chuckles] because they’re like “Well, I guess we’re done now.” We always take a break. It’s so that we can sell ads. [Mike and Kyle chuckle]
KYLE GETZ
Just so we- To have an ad spot.
MIKE JOHNSON
But, per live show tradition, we always take a shot when we take a break. So if you would like to take a shot with us, that would be great. Thank you to whoever brought us this.
KYLE GETZ
Thanks for these shots.
MIKE JOHNSON
And, um, uh, I guess- Is that it? Are we, like..?
KYLE GETZ
Oh, you need to stall enough so that I can get the break song ready.
MIKE JOHNSON
You’ve got this, girl.
KYLE GETZ
Okay.
MIKE JOHNSON
I believe in you. Okay, great. Should we take a break?
KYLE GETZ
Let’s take a break!
MIKE JOHNSON
Let’s take a break. [audience applauds and cheers]
[Break music plays, sung by MIKE JOHNSON]
This is the part where Mike and Kyle take a break!
KYLE GETZ
Boy, I don’t know that taking a shot was such a great idea. [Mike chuckles] It never is. I’m never like “Oh, we took a break and I took a shot. I’m so glad I did that.”
MIKE JOHNSON
Right. Right. Right, right, right, right, right. Well, there was that one time that it was like Portland Podcast Festival where it was Maker’s Mark.
KYLE GETZ
Oh yeah, ‘cause they sponsored it.
MIKE JOHNSON
And you looove whiskey.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. Jesus. What did I say? Oh, “It tastes like tomorrow’s regrets, today.” [Mike and Kyle chuckle] “Whiskey.”
MIKE JOHNSON
They did not turn that into a bumper sticker.
KYLE GETZ
They di- I don’t think they supported that.
MIKE JOHNSON
Oh god, okay. Um… are you ready?
KYLE GETZ
Whew. Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
So, are we back?
KYLE GETZ
We’re back!
MIKE JOHNSON
We’re back! [Mike chuckles,, audience cheers and applauds]
KYLE GETZ
We are going to do our Gayest & Straightest.
MIKE JOHNSON
We’re gonna do our Gayest & Straightest, but first… Our website is gayishpodcast.com.
KYLE GETZ
We are on socials, @gayishpodcast.
MIKE JOHNSON
Our hotline, you can send us text messages or leave us voicemails, is 5855-Gayish. That’s 585-542-9474. Standard rates apply.
KYLE GETZ
Oof!
MIKE JOHNSON
You alright?
KYLE GETZ
[strained] Doin’ great. Um, our email is gayishpodcast@gmail.com.
MIKE JOHNSON
And our physical mailing address is Post Office Box 19882 Seattle, Washington 98109. Um…
KYLE GETZ
A couple programming things.
MIKE JOHNSON
A couple of programming things. So, first, next weekend, on- Well, the whole weekend is Pride48 Live Streaming Weekend. It’s a whole crew of different LGBTQ and LGBTQ-friendly podcasts. We’ve been hanging out with those guys for many years now, and this will actually be their last Live Streaming Weekend. But if you go to pride48.com you can listen to stuff all weekend long. We will be streaming Sunday at 4pm Pacific. That is-
KYLE GETZ
So this Sunday, if you’re listening to this when the regular podcast comes out.
MIKE JOHNSON
That’s right, Sunday the 17th at 4pm Pacific. So tune in. Pride48.com, or I think we’ll also be streaming to Facebook.
KYLE GETZ
Oh, will we?
MIKE JOHNSON
[quietly] I don’t know.
KYLE GETZ
Oh, okay. Pride48.com.
MIKE JOHNSON
Don’t hassle me, Kyle. [Kyle chuckles] And then, uh, we will be doing a live show in Houston, Texas, right in your backyard.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah! I grew up outside of there.
MIKE JOHNSON
Speaking of fingering… “your backyard”? [Mike and Kyle chuckle]
KYLE GETZ
Okay, yeah. I got it. I got it.
MIKE JOHNSON
That is Sunday October the 15th. Tickets are on sale. Go to gayishpodcast.com/live to buy tickets.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. Uh, Gayest & Straightest?
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah, let’s do our Gayest & Straightest. Be ready to do your Gayest & Straightest, y’all.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
Um, I’ll go first.
KYLE GETZ
Okay.
MIKE JOHNSON
Alright, so, the gayest thing about me this week, you called it: I was playing music on my phone because I’ve had in my head now for a while… What song was it that I said was stuck?
KYLE GETZ
Ed Sheeran… something about a mountain?
MIKE JOHNSON
Ed Sheeran! Castle on the Hill was stuck in my head, which could be my straightest of the week.
KYLE GETZ
Yes.
MIKE JOHNSON
Uh, but the gayest of the week was: like right after that, my phone decided to place Throat Goat by Kim Petras. [Mike, Kyle, and audience laugh] And Kyle was like “That’s your gayest of the week right there, happening in front of us live.” Yeah. And that’s absolutely true.
KYLE GETZ
Yep.
MIKE JOHNSON
And then- Well, it was either that or shaking hands with that boy’s pork loin dick last night.
KYLE GETZ
Oh, right?
MIKE JOHNSON
But anyway, the straightest thing about me this week was: the boyfriend took me to a wallaby farm.
KYLE GETZ
Okay.
KYLE GETZ
There’s a wallaby farm outside of Seattle. It’s kangaroos-
KYLE GETZ
A farm for wallabies.
MIKE JOHNSON
Kangaroos and wallabies. And this man who, like, raises them from babies and, like, feeds them with bottles so that they’re not assholes… because kangaroos in the wild are assholes.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah!
MIKE JOHNSON
These are just like pets. They just, like, roll up to you and, like, say “Hey.” The straightest thing though was, like, this man was not a person I was prepared to come out to. So, like, total butch mode came out.
KYLE GETZ
Oh, yeah? Why, when you were with your boyfriend?
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. We stood, like, several feet apart at all times. [Mike and Kyle laugh] Um, it was really fun though. If you get a chance to hang out with wallabies, y’all, it’s great.
KYLE GETZ
That’s a weird- Yeah. Weird situation that that would come up, I think.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. Uh, and boyfriend made out with one! It was fun.
KYLE GETZ
Okay, you need to clarify. You keep saying that. You need to clarify that.
MIKE JOHNSON
Well, one of the tame kangaroos has the- like, clearly been circus trained or whatever, and so he gives you- Like, they gave us all this bread to feed them because they love it, and gave him a piece of bread and had him put it between his lips and then the kangaroo, like, kind of climbed up him and ate it out of his mouth.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
And then gave him a hug.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah! It was cute.
MIKE JOHNSON
I’ll show you the video. Anybody who wants to see the kangaroo making out with my boyfriend video… [Mike laughs] happy to show. Um, but yeah, how about you? What’s up?
KYLE GETZ
Uh, my gayest is definitely going to The Eagle and seeing someone lick that go-go boy’s butthole.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. That happened! [audience laughs] That definitely happened.
KYLE GETZ
He was very excited to see him… clearly!
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. Yeah. They knew each other and it was consensual, but it was also like “Hey, how’s it going?” and then he turned around and then that man put his face in his butthole.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah! I don’t know what amount you have to tip to get that service, but I didn’t do that. [Mike laughs] Uh, my straightest is I spit. I spit over the side of a bridge… [audience chuckles] like a dude.
MIKE JOHNSON
Do we need more context?
KYLE GETZ
No.
MIKE JOHNSON
Okay. [Mike laughs]
KYLE GETZ
There was- I don’t know. I just- I just decided to spit [hawks some spit] like a sports player.
MIKE JOHNSON
Okay. Alright.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
AUDIENCE MEMBER
Go, sports!
KYLE GETZ
Go-go, sports. [Mike laughs] Um… does anyone want to share…
MIKE JOHNSON
Does anybody want to share…
KYLE GETZ and MIKE JOHNSON
…their Gayest & Straightest?
MIKE JOHNSON
My goodness. The man with the beard is the first one that I saw, because it’s very bright up here. So come on, come on up. [audience applauds and cheers] Please be sure to tell us your name.
SCOTT
Hello, my name is Scott otherwise known as Explosive Lasagna.
MIKE JOHNSON
Aw, great! [audience applauds and cheers]
KYLE GETZ
Hi!
OTHER AUDIENCE MEMBER
Finally! Finally!
SCOTT
I had a plan, but my straightest tonight is showing up to the show early and spilling my beer over my new friends. [Mike, Kyle, and audience aww]
MIKE JOHNSON
Did they deserve it? [Mike chuckles]
SCOTT
Eh.
MIKE JOHNSON
Alright.
SCOTT
My gayest is planning a trip around coming to see my favorite podcast, and whorin’ my way from Culver City up to West Hollywood. [audience cheers]
KYLE GETZ
Yeeees!
OTHER AUDIENCE MEMBER
Good job! Good job!
MIKE JOHNSON
So wait, Scott, are you not from here?
SCOTT
I am from the mountains of Colorado.
MIKE JOHNSON
Really?
SCOTT
I am.
MIKE JOHNSON
Oh my goodness.
KYLE GETZ
Wow. Welcome.
MIKE JOHNSON
Welcome.
SCOTT
Thank you.
KYLE GETZ
Um, and you get a mug, right behind you.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeaaah!
KYLE GETZ
Thank you so much for sharing your Gayest & Straightest.
MIKE JOHNSON
Thank you.
KYLE GETZ
Yes.
MIKE JOHNSON
Oh, wait.
TERRENCE
Oh!
KYLE GETZ and MIKE JOHNSON
Hi!
TERRENCE
My name is Terrence.
KYLE GETZ
Hey, Terrence.
TERRENCE
Patreon up in this bitch. [audience applauds and cheers]
MIKE JOHNSON and KYLE GETZ
Yeaaaah!
TERRENCE
Uh, so my Gayest & Straightest are actually kind of s- like, very related.
MIKE JOHNSON
We love a twofer.
TERRENCE
they’re intertwined.
KYLE GETZ
Yep. Yep.
TERRENCE
So, I recently bought a Dremel and, like, a saw attachment, like, goggles, glasses, was working on this whole, like, project.
KYLE GETZ
Wow!
TERRENCE
Getting sweaty, like, drinking alcohol, all the things. [Kyle chuckles] But it was to make my concert outfit for Beyoncé. [Mike, Kyle, and audience laugh, audience applauds]
KYLE GETZ
Oh my gosh, that’s amazing.
MIKE JOHNSON
That’s fucking magical. Thank you. Hey, girl, hey.
RUDY
Hi, I’m Rudy. Longtime listener and Patreon member.
KYLE GETZ
Hi, Rudy!
RUDY
Uh, my straightest is I always have tools in my car because I’m the handy homo of my friends and I always fix and build things for them.
KYLE GETZ
Oh, nice.
RUDY
My gayest is that I crocheted you guys a gift in honor of your award-winning podcast.
MIKE JOHNSON
Oh my god! [audience applauds and cheers]
RUDY
And hopefully it will help with your, um, issues you have, Mike.
MIKE JOHNSON
Oh god. Oh my god! [Mike and Kyle laugh, audience cheers and applauds]
KYLE GETZ
Oh my god.
OTHER AUDIENCE MEMBER
That’s a really big finger!
MIKE JOHNSON
This is the biggest crochet cock and balls I’ve ever seen.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
RUDY
It’s not the largest I made, so… [Mike laughs] I did make one for Ma Johnson too, so… [audience cheers and applauds, Mike laughs]
KYLE GETZ
I have never seen a crocheted dick and balls? It’s so lifelike. [audience laughs]
OTHER AUDIENCE MEMBER
Oh my god. [audience laughs]
MIKE JOHNSON
Alright, well…
KYLE GETZ
Thank you so much.
MIKE JOHNSON
Mom… [Mike chuckles]
KYLE GETZ
Next time we see her.
MIKE JOHNSON
Next time we see you, got a gift for you. [Mike and audience chuckle]
KYLE GETZ
Okay.
MIKE JOHNSON
Awesome, awesome.
KYLE GETZ
Who else?
MIKE JOHNSON
Uh, somebody else? Somebody else wanna go?
JOHN
Hi, my name is John. Uh, I’m the guy who uses your mouth, Mike, for the election PSAs.
MIKE JOHNSON
Oh, nice! [Mike laughs]
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. Yeah. You make Mike say smart things, which is very, very sweet of you.
JOHN
Uh, anyways, my straightest is actually I am moving from the Bay Area to DC, and basically all my earthly belongings are in my car right now and they’re all, like, disheveled and everything. Basically, I’m, I guess, sleeping like a straight guy for a very long time, [Mike and Kyle chuckle] until I go to DC. But my gayest was: last week I was in Portland, Oregon, and I was hanging out with some friends and they decided to go to a male stripper bar and I got-
MIKE JOHNSON
Was it a Silverado?
JOHN
Silverado, yes.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeaaaah! [Mike laughs]
JOHN
No, and we also went to Stag afterwards. So we went to both.
MIKE JOHNSON
Great.
JOHN
Uh, and I got my first lap dance from an adult entertainer.
KYLE GETZ
Ohhh! Congrats. [audience applauds]
JOHN
And yes, it went really well.
KYLE GETZ
It went well. That’s good to know. That’s good to keep in mind.
MIKE JOHNSON
Alright, we’re out of mugs but we’ll take more if you want to do one.
KYLE GETZ and MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
REGULAR-SIZED RUDY
Hey, um, I’m also Rudy, Regular-Sized Rudy. [Mike and Kyle laugh]
KYLE GETZ
I love Bob’s Burgers.
REGULAR-SIZED RUDY
Uh, yeah, so my gayest of the week is I got a tattoo of a bottle of poppers. I got Double Scorpio right here. [Mike laughs, audience cheers and applauds]
KYLE GETZ
Oh my god, yes!
REGULAR-SIZED RUDY
Double Scorpio.
OTHER AUDIENCE MEMBER
Show it!
KYLE GETZ
Show it. Oh my god, don’t take up your pants… yet.
REGULAR-SIZED RUDY
Maybe, maybe, maybe. Maybe? Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
Do that later. Oh my God. Okay.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. Oh yeaaah! [audience cheers and applauds]
REGULAR-SIZED RUDY
Aaoow! [Mike laughs]
MIKE JOHNSON
That’s magical.
REGULAR-SIZED RUDY
I still have the SecondSkin on there, so it looks a little funny. But uh, my straightest of the week is I was actually wearing a way gayer shirt [Kyle and Regular-Sized Rudy chuckle] and I was on my way, I dropped my whole cheeseburger on here. [Mike and Kyle laugh, audience groans] I had ketchup stains. So I reached into the backseat of my car and I just grabbed the first thing I saw and I was like “Okay, I guess I’m wearing this.”
KYLE GETZ
Perfect. Thank you so much.
MIKE JOHNSON
Thank you, thank you, thank you. [audience applauds]
KYLE GETZ
Is there anything gayer than a poppers tattoo? I don’t- That might be up there with the gayest.
MIKE JOHNSON
Is there anything straighter than a cheeseburger stain? [Kyle laughs] Yeah, yeah, yeah.
KYLE GETZ
Come on.
MIKE JOHNSON
Come on. Let’s do it.
KYLE GETZ
What’s yours?
MIKE JOHNSON
We can give you a limited edition Gayish tour poster because I accidentally packed some.
ERIC
[Eric laughs] If you’re not ready now, maybe San Francisco, or Houston, or whatever.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
ERIC
Uh, so my uh-
MIKE JOHNSON
What was your name?
ERIC
Eric.
MIKE JOHNSON
Eric. Hi, Eric.
ERIC
Hi.
MIKE JOHNSON
Is-
ERIC
Bottom. What? [Mike and audience laugh]
KYLE GETZ
[Kyle chuckles] What’s your Gayest & Straightest?
ERIC
So, my straightest is I’ve been redrawing a sketch of my air vent for my ‘05 Wrangler to print on my 3D printer.
KYLE GETZ
Wow! [Eric chuckles]
ERIC
Pretty fuckin’ straight.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah, absolutely.
MIKE JOHNSON
That’s like big tech bro vibes.
ERIC
My gayest is I recently- So, on Friday night I went to an event at The Bullet Bar, it was Cocksucks, and I met up with a guy who used to be a bartender in Atlanta and suddenly he’s now here going to USC and I was like “The fuck?” So I got to reconnect with somebody that I haven’t seen the longtime, over 3000 miles away. [Eric laughs]
KYLE GETZ
That’s amazing. That’s amazing.
MIKE JOHNSON
At an event called “Cocksucks”?
ERIC
Uh, yes. Were you guys here Friday?
MIKE JOHNSON
“Coccyx”?
ERIC
“Cocksucks”. “Cocksucks”.
MIKE JOHNSON
“Cocksucks”.
KYLE GETZ
No.
OTHER AUDIENCE MEMBER
Socks!
KYLE GETZ
Socks!
MIKE JOHNSON
Socks!
ERIC
Socks. [Eric and Mike laugh]
KYLE GETZ
Got it. Got it.
MIKE JOHNSON
Thank you.
KYLE GETZ
That sounds very gay, thank you. [audience applauds]
MIKE JOHNSON
Oh, Kyle. Yeah. Yeah. Sure, sure, sure, sure, sure.
AUSTIN
[static-y mic audio] Hi, my name is Austin. Mine kind of goes hand in hand too.
So I have-
MIKE JOHNSON
Oh, sorry.
AUSTIN
Oh. There I am.
MIKE JOHNSON
Go ahead. Go ahead.
AUSTIN
Uh, I have a rule about spiders: if I am the manliest person in the room, I will handle it. Which happens rarely, [Mike, Kyle, and audience chuckle] so I don’t handle too many spiders. But I was in a room full of queers and there was a spider needed dealt with, I dealt with it, and then a couple days later I was in a room with one of my girlfriends and her boyfriend and I jumped up on the couch and screamed like a little bitch and I was like “Ahh! Get it! Get it! Get it! Get it! Get it!” [Mike and Kyle chuckle, audience cheers and applauds] Straightest and gay.
KYLE GETZ
Perfect.
MIKE JOHNSON
Oh, goodness, Kyle. We did it! I think we did it.
MIKE JOHNSON
Another live show under the belt.
KYLE GETZ
Under the wraps.
MIKE JOHNSON
We’ve fingered this real good.
KYLE GETZ
We’ve put it up our butts real good.
MIKE JOHNSON
Uh, thank you to all of you for being here. Give yourselves a round of applause.
KYLE GETZ
Yes, thank you so much. [audience applauds]
MIKE JOHNSON
Appreciate your support and love. Um, thank you to Dave and the awesome staff here at Akbar, they’ve been wonderful to work with today. I really appreciate that. [audience applauds] Kyle and I need to, like, you know, wrap this shit up and pack up, but we’re gonna make Derek do most of the work and hang out and just…
KYLE GETZ
Say “Hi,” and chat.
MIKE JOHNSON
Meet-and-greet, whatever. Yeah. So be sure to stick around, and then tip well because they’ve been super nice to us here. And thanks to everybody who did their Gayest & Straightest just now from the audience, we really appreciate that. And uh, thanks to my friends Clara Lewis and Dr. Adam Feller for working the door today. [audience cheers and applauds] Really appreciate the two of you, you’re amazing.
KYLE GETZ
And… there’s a select group of people we like to call our “Super Gap Bridgers” that give us money, and we appreciate them most of all. Thank you to Kitt, Oliver, Andrew Bugbee, William Bryant, Christopher M, John Crawley, Stephen Portch, Joh Stoessel, Harry Shaw, Josh Copeland, Jonathan Montañez, Waddu, Forrest Nail, Patrick Martin, James Barrow, Steve Douglas, Explosive Lasagna… [audience applauds] Michael Cubbington, Just Jamie, Kevin Henderson, Tomas B, Timothy Saura, DustySands, AE Coleman, Chris Khachatourians, and Jerome York.
MIKE JOHNSON
Thank you.
KYLE GETZ
Thank you so much.
MIKE JOHNSON
Thank you so, so much. Um, that’s it! This has been Gayish. From Akbar in the Silver Lake neighborhood of Los Angeles, California, and the Chris Khachatourians studios, I’m Mike Johnson.
KYLE GETZ
I’m Kyle Getz. Until next week, be butch, be fabulous, be you.
MIKE JOHNSON
See you.
KYLE GETZ
See ya next week.
MIKE JOHNSON
Next week. Oh, Kyle. [audience cheers and applauds] Oh, your laptop hates you. [Mike laughs]
[Outro music plays, instrumental]
[Transcriptionist: C Dixon, CMDixonWork@gmail.com]
Per tradition, Mike and Kyle A listener Qs.
In this episode: News- 3:08 || Main Topic (Q&A)- 12:29 || Gayest & Straightest- 1:20:19
Come see us live in Houston! Visit www.gayishpodcast.com/live for tour dates, details and tickets. We can’t wait to see you!
On the Patreon bonus segment, we A even more of your Qs. If you want to support our show while getting ad-free episodes a day early, go to www.patreon.com/gayishpodcast.
What are neopronouns? Are they actually “neo”? Or are they werewolves? Mike and Kyle talk about words that take the place of nouns.
In this episode: News- 3:38 || Main Topic (Neopronouns)- 18:39 || Gayest & Straightest- 1:09:43
Come see us live in Houston! Visit www.gayishpodcast.com/live for tour dates, details and tickets. We can’t wait to see you!
On the Patreon bonus segment, we talk about nounself pronouns, a specific type of neopronoun you may not have heard of before. If you want to support our show while getting ad-free episodes a day early, go to www.patreon.com/gayishpodcast.
Are you the Best Little Boy in the World? Mike and Kyle talk about why they want gay boys to achieve less in school.
In this episode: News- 3:25 || Main Topic (Overachieving)- 16:41 || Gayest & Straightest- 1:13:19
Come see us live in LA and Houston. Visit www.gayishpodcast.com/live for tour dates, details and tickets. We can’t wait to see you!
On the Patreon bonus segment, Mike and Kyle talk about overachievers in the sciences. If you want to support our show while getting ad-free episodes a day early, go to www.patreon.com/gayishpodcast.