Homophobes often include bestiality in their slippery slope arguments as to why LGBTQ people don’t deserve equal rights. Well, let’s talk about it.
In this episode: News- 3:27 || Main Topic (Bestiality)- 13:18 || Gayest & Straightest- 1:12:08
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FULL TRANSCRIPT
INTRO MUSIC [MIKE JOHNSON SINGING]
When you know that you are queer but your favorite drink is beer, that’s Gayish. You can bottom without stopping but you can’t stand going shopping, that’s Gayish. Oh, Gayish. You’re probably Gayish. Oh life’s just too short for narrow stereotypes. Oh, it’s Gayish. We’re all so Gayish. It’s Gayish with Mike and Kyle.
MIKE JOHNSON
Hello, everyone in the podcast universe. This is Gayish.
KYLE GETZ
The podcast that was recently cast as Holding Cockfield in the upcoming intercrural porn “Catch ‘er the Thigh”.
MIKE JOHNSON
[laughs] You said “cock” and I immediately thought rooster because today’s gonna be a clucksterfuck. [Kyle chuckles] I’m Mike Johnson.
KYLE GETZ
I’m Kyle Getz.
MIKE JOHNSON
And we’re here to bridge the gap between sexuality and actuality, and-
KYLE GETZ
And, boy, a clucksterfuck it is gonna be.
MIKE JOHNSON
Boy, yeah. Hey, Kyle.
KYLE GETZ
Hey, Mike.
MIKE JOHNSON
This one’s gonna be ruff! [laughs]
KYLE GETZ
Can I leave yet, or do I have to do this episode with you?
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
Uh, yeah, we’re gonna talk about bestiality.
MIKE JOHNSON
We’re gonna talk about bestiality.
KYLE GETZ
Or “bestiality” [saying it like “best” rather than “beast”] as the British lady I listened to said a whole bunch in her podcast. But, um, yeah, we’re talking about bestiality and-
MIKE JOHNSON
We’re gonna talk about bestiality.
KYLE GETZ
-there’s good reason. It’s been- I just want to say this in the episode: it’s often connected to gay shit as, like, the slippery slope argument. So, like, this is why we’ve done topics like incest, like pedophilia. We talk about them because they are things that are thrown in our face as to why we don’t deserve rights.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yep.
KYLE GETZ
So, it’s interesting. People- Someone in the past- On Twitter, someone, like, you know, that sent, like, in our DMs a MAGA flag and was like “You fuckin’ suck. You’re a pedophile,” because of… Jeffrey Epstein, and was like- because of him, and it was like “You mean that straight guy, that’s a pedophile?”
MIKE JOHNSON
Right. Right.
KYLE GETZ
Like, “That’s a bad example.” Anyway, they- He, like, pointed out like “You talked about pedophiles,” and it was like… Yeah, we’re allowed to talk about the insults that are thrown at us. There’s danger in it, because then people can say “Look, you talked about it and that’s proof of something. I don’t know what, but-”
MIKE JOHNSON
I mean, r- Okay, really, we talk about whatever the fuck we want to because it’s our fucking show.
KYLE GETZ
That’s true. That’s true. [Mike chuckles] So, yeah, if you’re- If this offends you, fuck off. But, anyway, that’s- We’re not there yet. Don’t fuck off yet.
MIKE JOHNSON
But first?
KYLE GETZ
But first.
MIKE JOHNSON
Here’s some feedback.
KYLE GETZ
Okay.
MIKE JOHNSON
Okay, feedback in the form of an iTunes review.
KYLE GETZ
Uh-oh.
MIKE JOHNSON
The title is “SASHA COLBY” in all caps. “Not caring about the finale and don’t even care to ask!? Haha whaaaaaaaaack We get you don’t care for dragrace but put some respect on Sasha Colby!” One star. [laughs]
KYLE GETZ
Damn, alright. Hey, if you’re okay with the fact that we don’t care about Drag Race, go rate, review, and rubscribe because that helps us.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Please- Please help us undo that one star review, y’all, just ‘cause… just ‘cause.
KYLE GETZ
Speaking of “We can talk about whatever we want to our podcast…”
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
I guess- But then, people get to rate however they want too, so I support your one star review. It’s- This is w- I don’t feel bad about one star reviews that accurately, like, say like “Here’s a thing about your show.”
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
And they’re like “Oh, yeah, you’re right.” And if you wanted a big Drag Race review this is not the place to get it, so you correctly assessed that we are not the people for that. So, I-
MIKE JOHNSON
Like the dude that got pissed that we shit on Cleveland! [both laugh]
KYLE GETZ
Yeah, I just don’t care about you, Cleveland. [Mike laughs] Anyway.
MIKE JOHNSON
Anyway, now the news.
[News segment intro plays, sung by MIKE JOHNSON]
Shut your mouth hole it’s time for your ear holes, news, news, news.
MIKE JOHNSON
News the first: dickbag fuckface assholes in Montana, Kyle.
MIKE JOHNSON
Mkay.
MIKE JOHNSON
Alright. Yeah, sorry, we gotta talk about Montana again.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah, yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
Two weeks in a row. Um, Montana Governor Greg Gianforte has signed into law a bill banning gender-affirming care for trans minors. So, it will take effect October the 1st and it has been called, quote, “draconian” by the Human Rights Campaign.
KYLE GETZ
Damn.
MIKE JOHNSON
But really what I want to talk about- It’s not significantly different from the, like, shitload of other states that are doing very similar things, right? Like-
KYLE GETZ
So equally horrifying, then.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah, it’s- [chuckles] Yeah, exactly. Exactly. But, it is interesting that he did that despite the fact that he has a gay nonbinary son.
KYLE GETZ
Damn!
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. [chuckles]
KYLE GETZ
“Fuck you…” I guess “…my son.”
MIKE JOHNSON
Yep. Yep. David Gianforte, who is 32 years old and is the son of Republican Montana Governor Greg Gianforte, came out as nonbinary and is lobbying his father to veto anti-LGBTQ legislation. He spoke with the Montana Free Press a few weeks ago, and he uses he/they pronouns, and came out to his family as gay in 2021. And he set up a formal meeting and read a statement that he also provided to the newspaper. Quote, “Hey Dad. Thanks for setting aside time to meet with me, it means a lot to me,” “There are a lot of important issues passing through the legislature right now. For my own sake I’ve chosen to focus primarily on transgender rights, as that would significantly directly affect a number of my friends … I would like to make the argument that these bills are immoral, unjust, and frankly a violation of human rights.” They asked him about it later, he said “I do have a family relationship with my father that I’m trying to preserve,” “I felt that the best way to go about this would be to reach out to him in a more formal manner. And he was very willing to meet with me,” but apparently not do a fuckin’ thing different. [chuckles]
KYLE GETZ
Can you imagine, like, having your son and being like “Oh, wow, I’m gonna directly hurt my son,” and still passing something like-? That’s- Man, some people’s love is not unconditional.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yep. Yep.
KYLE GETZ
And that sucks.
MIKE JOHNSON
He said, quote, “It’s bizarre to me to read the press release that my father put out,” “He talks about compassion toward children, the youth of Montana, while simultaneously taking away health care from the youth in Montana. It’s basically a contradiction in my mind.”
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
And he publicly supported Representative Zooey Zephyr, who’s the trans woman that they ousted now from the house.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
And, uh, anyway. So, just, Montana, get your shit together!
KYLE GETZ
Fuck you.
MIKE JOHNSON
[chuckles] And like 17 other states in the last 2 weeks.
KYLE GETZ
Oh, yeah. Yeah. Most of the United- Fuck off, most of the United States, I guess.
MIKE JOHNSON
Uh, news the second. So, in the United Kingdom, there has been a push by a organization called “Turning Point UK” or “TPUK” and they have been protesting a pub called “Honor Oak Pub” who has been hosting family-friendly drag events. So, they’ve been going and protesting trying to prevent people from going to these drag shows. Turns out that TPUK is actually an offshoot of an American far-right group. So we’re exporting this bullshit, apparently.
KYLE GETZ
Oh. Sorry, everybody.
MIKE JOHNSON
And, at their latest attempt here just yesterday – so, over the weekend – apparently counter-protesters showed up and they outnumbered the protesters and drowned out all of their chanting with George Michael songs.
KYLE GETZ
[both laugh] I love- That’s beautiful.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yep. Yep. It’s in- This is in southeast London in a, uh, I think neighborhood, called “Lewisham”. Um, which I hope that I pronounced right, because seems like a lot of really old British names, like-
KYLE GETZ
We’ll get some emails that are like “It’s pronounced ‘LEWSH-a-MEE’!”
MIKE JOHNSON
[laughs] Yeah, exactly.
KYLE GETZ
And I’m like “Thanks, wouldn’t have guessed.”
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. So, it’s a drag story time and brunch and the host is called “THAT GIRL” and she-
KYLE GETZ
That’s a great name.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. Yeah. She put out the call and said, you know, “It has come to our attention that there are plans to protest another of our events … I would like to thank you all for your support at the previous two … we cannot do this alone … we are calling on you again to stand with us against this bigotry.” And so I guess the police kept the two groups separated from each other, and it just- I don’t- It’s literal fuckin’ Nazis, Kyle. That’s what’s happening.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah, when you’re standing there and you look around and you see like a Nazi symbol, you’re in the wrong spot. It doesn’t matter where you are, get- Leave. You’re not- That’s the wrong place to be. You’re on the wrong literal side of, [chuckles] like- You got- Get the fuck out of there.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yep.
KYLE GETZ
Literal Nazis are agreeing with you, get out. And it’s- I think- I’ve seen so many times that the counter-protesters outnumber the protesters. This is such a vocal minority, and it sucks that they’re the ones that are controlling… uh, our, like, government and like the conversation in the country. It is a minority.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yep.
KYLE GETZ
It is a minority of people. This is not everyone who wants this. This is not even- #NotAllRepublicans. It’s not all Republicans that want this.
MIKE JOHNSON
Right. Yeah. Yeah. Polls are consistently showing, at least in this country, that over half of the US is pissed about all of this anti-trans horseshit, so.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah, yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
Um, 57% was the latest one that I saw, I think was USA Today.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
Um, but yeah. Yeah. Sorry, UK, for us giving you our horseshit. Although, to be fair, y’all have JK Rowling so, like, maybe- Maybe- You know.
KYLE GETZ
They exported some shit our way too, you know? Like, [chuckles] take a little give a little.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah, it’s a little… tits for tats, I guess. [chuckles]
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
Uh, okay, news the last. So, Bernie Wagenblast, who is the voice that you hear on New York subways…
KYLE GETZ
Okay.
MIKE JOHNSON
…has come out as a trans woman.
KYLE GETZ
Oh!
MIKE JOHNSON
[chuckles] Yeah. So, Bernie Wagenblast began living full-time as a woman at the start of 2023, took to social media to make the announcement.
KYLE GETZ
Vaccines, man. They’ll do that to you.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. [chuckles] Right. Oh my god. Uh, she had known since childhood that her true gender was not the one she was assigned at birth. On the WNYC podcast “Death, Sex & Money”, Wagenblast, who’s now 66, said she recalled first feeling like a girl at age 4. Quote, “I remember clearly being at my grandmother’s house, sitting in front of her vanity, putting on some of her necklaces, and I think she had powder at her vanity and putting that on my face,” “It felt good. It felt natural. It felt like, why can’t I do this?” “I’m not sure when I first came across the impression that this wasn’t OK, but I think fairly soon I realized that this was not OK.” She was on a podcast, it was WNYC’s podcast “Death, Sex & Money”, and I have a clip of her from that podcast where she sort of makes fun of herself and the voice that she recorded that’s now ubiquitous in New York City.
BERNIE WAGENBLAST [voice clip]
It’s a computer putting together all these little words and phrases that I recorded, and trying to make a sentence. So, it would sound something like “The next… downtown… number one… will arrive in… one… minute.”
ANNA SALE [voice clip] [TN: “Death, Sex & Money” host]
[Anna and Bernie chuckle] I know that.
MIKE JOHNSON
I recognize that voice, 100%.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
Anyway, and she said she’s decided not to change her name, which is something that trans people do sometimes. She said, Bernie Wagenblast, “I prefer to be called ‘Bernie’, and that that still fits my gender. ‘Bernie’ can be short for ‘Bernadette’.”
KYLE GETZ
Oh! I love that.
MIKE JOHNSON
[chuckles] Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
I- Also, it’s really important to see people of all ages coming out as trans or just being trans, because so many people say it’s like “Oh, this is a Tumblr generation. This is a Gen Z thing. This is-” because- Like, no, it’s not. People of all ages are trans.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yep.
MIKE JOHNSON
You just don’t know about them. And, there are not more left handed people. Like, it’s just- When we start to be more open about identities, and people learn more about them, and people feel more comfortable coming out, then that’s what happens.
MIKE JOHNSON
I really just sort of love the idea that the proud boys wouldn’t ride the subway anymore because it’s a trans voice or something. [laughs]
KYLE GETZ
I mean, I feel like trans people are wriggling their little fingers all over. You know, we got Bud Light. Like, there’s so many things. It’s just, like… just have a lil finger in everything and, pretty much, they won’t be allowed- they won’t be able to be in the country because too much of it will be trans.
MIKE JOHNSON
Mhm. Mhm. Yep.
KYLE GETZ
Let’s trans the water! [chuckles]
MIKE JOHNSON
Let’s trans- We’re dumping some glitter into Hudson Bay. [chuckles]
KYLE GETZ
Dumpin’ glitter, trans the water, and then you can’t live here. You gotta move.
MIKE JOHNSON
Right, right. Yep.
KYLE GETZ
That’s the ideal.
MIKE JOHNSON
And, that’s the news.
KYLE GETZ
Wow, that was like an official- You’ve never done that before, Mike. [Mike laughs] Why did that sound like an official thing we always do? Um, speaking of drinkin’ the water, these people have been drinking our Kool Aid, our new Patreon members. Thank you to… Eliman? or Eli-man?
MIKE JOHNSON
Eli-man!
KYLE GETZ
I don’t know.
MIKE JOHNSON
L-M-N-O?
KYLE GETZ
No. L-M-N-NO. [both chuckle] Um, uh… Stefan Wickli.
MIKE JOHNSON
Stefan?
KYLE GETZ
Yes.
MIKE JOHNSON
It’s not “Stephen”? [saying the “ph” like an f] “Stephen”?
KYLE GETZ
Mike, okay, I know I read some things wrong but I do know the word “Stephen”. [chuckles] I do- I’ve read that- I’ve read that name a couple times in my life. Um, and Nathan Olsen. Nailed it. Nailed Nathan. So if you want to join Patreon you can go to patreon.com/gayishpodcast to get bonus content, episodes, and lots of- get episodes a day early, ad-free. It’s great. You should do it. You’ll love it.
MIKE JOHNSON
You’ll love it.
MIKE JOHNSON
[Kyle sighs] [laughs] You wanna talk about bestiality, Kyle?
KYLE GETZ
I’m so excited, Mike. Okay, okay, why are we talk- You were the one that suggested this topic.
MIKE JOHNSON
Mhm.
KYLE GETZ
I think it’s good, I like and support it, but why did you suggest this? Why- Why this? Why now? Why us?
MIKE JOHNSON
Well, wh- And now, why now? I don’t know.
KYLE GETZ
I don’t know either. You didn’t have to answer any of this.
MIKE JOHNSON
Sometimes we have a production meeting and I’m like “Fuck it. This is the mood I’m in right now, everybody. Enjoy.”
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
Well, no, I mean- I think, at the end of the day, there is this, like, cluster of shit that dickbag fuckface assholes always mention in a row like they’re somehow related: homosexuality, pedophilia, bestiality.
KYLE GETZ
Mhm.
MIKE JOHNSON
They’re like a package deal, and we’ve covered a lot of gay stuff, and we did an episode about pedophilia, and I thought “Well, you know, we got an unholy trinity.” [Kyle chuckles] Like, we need to complete the- [chuckles] complete the circuit or whatever-
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
-so that our Triforces can combine and we can rise up into the sky and… slay the dragon. I don’t know.
KYLE GETZ
I am gay Captain Planet. [Mike laughs] When your jewelry spits out rainbow lights- Sorry, Captain Planet was already gay. I just- That just clicked for me.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
Gay Captain Planet is Captain Planet.
MIKE JOHNSON
Especially- Especially the green one.
KYLE GETZ
Espec- [both chuckle] Oh, one of them is animals, is heart. Remember, he could talk to animals?
MIKE JOHNSON
Oh.
KYLE GETZ
This is our heart episode. [both chuckle]
MIKE JOHNSON
It really is our heart episode.
KYLE GETZ
Yes. Okay. And I actually have examples of what you’re talking about. I’m pretty sure I did this in other, similar episodes of- Some of us- Sometimes when I think about this, like “Oh, connecting bestiality and gay shit? Like, that’s old news.”
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
Like, “People don’t do that anymore,” and, [makes a buzzer sound] wrong.
MIKE JOHNSON
They do. All the time.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. And, I have just a few examples that I wanted to share with you.
MIKE JOHNSON
Mhm. Did you just make a goose sound?
KYLE GETZ
[makes a buzzer (or maybe goose) sound] [both laugh] Yeah. I say- I disagree with bestiality except geese.
MIKE JOHNSON
[chuckles] Yeah. Oh.
KYLE GETZ
They’re so pretty.
MIKE JOHNSON
Great.
KYLE GETZ
[makes a goose sound]
MIKE JOHNSON
Geese are assholes, Kyle.
KYLE GETZ
I know, I fucking hate them. Never mind. [Mike chuckles] Um, the geese lovers are gonna send me an email to be like “Mmm, geese aren’t assholes, you’re just not petting it right,” and I’m like “I’ll pet geese however I want.” …Ben Carson.
MIKE JOHNSON
Oh, God!
KYLE GETZ
Remember? [chuckles] Uh, 2016 Republican presidential candidate.
MIKE JOHNSON
Not dead. [chuckles]
KYLE GETZ
Not dead. Loves Pokémon or something.
MIKE JOHNSON
Really?
KYLE GETZ
Or mentioned- There was something in the news about Pokémon, I forget.
MIKE JOHNSON
That’s interesting. No, it was-
KYLE GETZ
Are you looking it up? Oh.
MIKE JOHNSON
No, it was Herman Cain that died, and then everybody thought [chuckles] Ben Carson was dead because, apparently, all black assholes are the same.
KYLE GETZ
I don’t remember that. Whoops! [Mike chuckles] Okay, in- Anyway, in 2013- There’s a quote on Fox Nation and I’m gonna read it.
MIKE JOHNSON
Great.
KYLE GETZ
Well, my thoughts are that marriage is between a man and a woman.”
MIKE JOHNSON
Great.
KYLE GETZ
“It’s a-” Right. We’re already in it. “It’s a well-established, fundamental pillar of society and no group, be they gays, be they NAMBLA, be they people who believe in bestiality. It doesn’t matter what they are. They don’t get to change the definition.”
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
Exactly like you said, it appears in a row, always with this kind of slippery slope argument.
MIKE JOHNSON
Also, I know NAMBLA is a thing, and sometimes I wonder- If I were going to invent an organization to help push a narrative, it would be them. [chuckles]
KYLE GETZ
Why? Oh- Oh, like, the right would crea- They’ve done this. They’ve created- They’ve started- Like, there was a bigger push at one point but, like, on 4chan people said, like, “Put P – as in “pedophile” – in “LGBT”, like, “P”, or whatever, and pretend like it’s part of the community,” when it’s really not.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
So, they do these misinformation or disinformation campaigns to potentially try to connect them.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yep.
KYLE GETZ
And it work sometimes.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
So, like, these words have- These words matter. People hear this and then- So, part of the reason I included this one is because he tried to clarify, and I’m gonna read you this- He clarifi- Like, there was all the different clarifications he tried to do on different news sources but I’m gonna read you the one he did on New York Magazine. “I wasn’t equating those things, I don’t think they’re equal. Just, you know, if you ask me for apple and I give you an orange you would say, well that’s not an orange. And then I say, that’s a banana, that’s not an apple either. And there’s a peach, that’s not an apple, either.” [laughs] [Mike chuckles] “But…” [laughs] Where are we, Ben Carson? What are we doing? “But it doesn’t mean that I’m equating the banana and the orange and the peach. And in the same way I’m not equating those things. My point was that once we start changing the definitions, then where do we stop?”
MIKE JOHNSON
Great.
KYLE GETZ
Like, so not only did you make us a delicious fruit salad…
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. [laughs]
KYLE GETZ
…we- you stuck with “Where does it stop?” which is the original issue, which is the point.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. That word salad was delicious. [chuckles]
KYLE GETZ
I would love a orange, peach, banana, apple, little fruits mixture. So now I’m hungry and angry… The Kyle Getz Story.
MIKE JOHNSON
Mhm.
KYLE GETZ
Okay, another person: Lynn Hutchings, a member of the Wyoming State Senate, representing Cheyenne.
MIKE JOHNSON
This is gonna be a good one.
KYLE GETZ
Um, In 2019 a high school Gay-Straight Alliance went to Cheyenne, the capital.
MIKE JOHNSON
Great.
KYLE GETZ
They were asking people- They were talking about a bill that would help ban workplace discrimination against LGBTQ people. So, back in 2019, that was making the rounds and they were asking people to support it. So, they ran into her apparently and they asked her to support it and, in the conversation – she denies this, but, allegedly – said “If my sexual orientation was to have sex with all of the men in there and I had sex with all of the women in there and then they brought their children and I had sex with all of them and then brought their dogs in and I had sex with them, [would] I be protected for my sexual orientation?”
MIKE JOHNSON
Good lord.
KYLE GETZ
You’re talking to fucking high schoolers! Like, Jesus Christ! I get, as adults, sometimes Trump says shit and you’re like “Holy shit,” but, like, you’re talking to high schoolers! And that’s your- Anyway- Again, she said she- And then, best part, she attempted to fist bump the students before leaving.
MIKE JOHNSON
Oh my god. Well, okay.
KYLE GETZ
“Later, bro!” like, walk off.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
Again, she denies she said that.
MIKE JOHNSON
And then she totally blew a cat in the alley before she went home. [laughs]
KYLE GETZ
Right, because apparently that’s what she’s having sex with: men, and women, and dogs, and children I guess. I don’t know what s- Anyway, that bill, House Bill 230, the sponsor: Dan Zwonitzer.
MIKE JOHNSON
Aw!
KYLE GETZ
We know that bitch.
MIKE JOHNSON
We know that bitch!
KYLE GETZ
I only know that because I actually looked it up on their, like, on the website to see like whatever happened to that bill. It said “H Did Not Consider in CoW”, Committee of the Whole. So my guess is it did not proceed to get voted on or anything.
MIKE JOHNSON
Well…
KYLE GETZ
Um, no surprise.
MIKE JOHNSON
Thanks- Thanks, Representative Zwonitzer.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. The last one: in January 2023, which is the present year we’re in-
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah, that’s now.
KYLE GETZ
-if you’re listen to this later, in Florida at the Florida Atlantic University-
MIKE JOHNSON
Gonna be great.
KYLE GETZ
-Interim Provost Michele Hawkins was having a conversation during a faculty meeting where they were- One of the discussion points was the university was collecting info to provide to Florida Republicans. They had requested information about DEI initiatives-
MIKE JOHNSON
Sure.
KYLE GETZ
-because-
MIKE JOHNSON
Because we gotta have a list of them so we can shut them down. [laughs]
KYLE GETZ
To make- Yes. Because they had legislation that was prohibiting spending funds on DEI, CRT, other – they called them “discriminatory” – initiatives.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah, sure. [blows a raspberry]
KYLE GETZ
And, you know, they were talking about, like, “Well, you know, why are you complying? This list kind of highlights black and LGBTQ faculty members unnecessarily?” So Hawkins, the interim provost – at least at the time, I don’t know – said “We did not do that. We did not know what color—if they were purple, if they had sex with animals. I mean, we had no, no idea of what we were doing. We did not put anyone under the bus.” And then the person that was having this conversation or in conversation, whatever, during this faculty meeting said, “Please don’t equate being LGBT with having sex with animals,” and Hawkins said “Oh, are you kidding, Allan?” and this person said “No, I am not kidding.” Later, their conversation continued a little bit where this person tried to, like, steer the conversation back to, like, the black and LGBT employees that they were worried about and Hawkins said “I doubt that they do have sex with animals. I don’t know, not many people do.”
MIKE JOHNSON
[chuckles] He’s incorrect.
KYLE GETZ
Um, Michele Hawkins. She is.
MIKE JOHNSON
Oh, “she”.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
She’s incorrect, lots of people have sex with animals.
KYLE GETZ
Will we get to that?
MIKE JOHNSON
We’re gonna get to that.
KYLE GETZ
[both chuckle] Oh boy. Anyway, so- And this was actually- The person that was having this conversation-
MIKE JOHNSON
Okay.
KYLE GETZ
Oh.
MIKE JOHNSON
As awful and fucking terrible as that whole thing is, and she’s clearly like doing the thing, I just can’t get over saying that she was going to “put them” under a bus. You don’t place someone under a bus, you throw them under a bus.
KYLE GETZ
As I was reading that I was like “That’s very weird.” Yeah, like, [Mike chuckles] “I will gingerly place you under the bus,” and then we… wave the bus on or something. [Mike laughs] I don’t- No. You throw them. I mean, don’t. But don’t do that. Anyway, yes. And so the person that had this conversation, that was- that called her out during it to be like “Don’t do that,” also said, later, he doesn’t think her intent was to do this and he thinks this is one of those, like- He was like “I think this is a moment where you get to teach someone, like, here’s how you’re-” So I won’t say that- Unlike Ben Carson, I won’t, like, just universally shit on her for-
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
I don’t know how she actually feels. Hopefully she learned and understood that, like, that joke isn’t funny. And, like, even going to, like, the “purple” like thing for like race…
MIKE JOHNSON
I was just gonna say that. Why do people, when they’re trying to say how not racist they are, suddenly call people fuckin’ purple? Or- [chuckles]
KYLE GETZ
It’s like “No, I don’t care if you’re…” and then you just have to list colors because, like, all of a sudden you don’t care if they’re green! Which is, like- That was- We’re not- I don’t know, that is very much like a “I’m not racist but…” kind of thing.
MIKE JOHNSON
And if you run into a green person, take them to the hospital.
KYLE GETZ
[chuckles] They have jaundice.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah, that purple person can’t breathe. [both chuckle] You should do the Heimlich.
KYLE GETZ
Or… place them under a bus.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah, right. [chuckles]
KYLE GETZ
Um, so this stuff still happens to this day. This is not a old school long gone comparison. These comparisons happen today.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yep. They sure do. And, they happened yesterday so let’s talk about the history of bestiality!
KYLE GETZ
Oooh…
MIKE JOHNSON
God, I’m just nailing my segues today, Kyle. [both chuckle]
KYLE GETZ
Um, where does this come from, Mike?
MIKE JOHNSON
Alright, well, first of all, first of all, first of all… bestiality is also called “zoophilia” and it’s probably “ZO-O-O-philia”, “ZO-O-philia”.
KYLE GETZ
[laughs] But, then we get confused with people that love Zooey Deschanel.
MIKE JOHNSON
Right, exactly.
MIKE JOHNSON
It’s so difficult.
MIKE JOHNSON
Exactly, exactly. So, I’m just- I’m gonna say “zoo” as consistently as I can. If it comes out “zo” at some point, fuckin’ deal with it and don’t @ me. I don’t care. Zoophilia, so that’s when a person experiences a sexual fixation on nonhuman animals, and I love that because people are animals. You can’t just say “into animals”, because humans are animals. That’s a fact. So-
KYLE GETZ
Yes. And also, we generally agree when we talk about animals we are talking about nonhuman animals, so we clarified it once and you don’t have to say it now every time.
MIKE JOHNSON
Right. I won’t… except, I do think it’s important that we say that as often as possible because the Christian fuckface assholes that are using that word against our community also don’t think people are animals.
KYLE GETZ
Oh. Oh. Oh! Boy. Because we’re better than them, or something? Like “We’re not animals, we’re better.”?
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. ‘Cause God said so. Right? He created all the beasts on whatever day it was and he created people later because we’re better, and newer, and different.
KYLE GETZ
Oh! Well, if I had had this information- I’m gonna throw out my research. I didn’t know God created beasts a different day.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
Who knew I just needed religion this whole time?
MIKE JOHNSON
I mean, you never know. [chuckle] Anyway, so the- But the thing is, “zoophilia” really is, like, a love for animals or a sexual interest in animals and is not necessarily the act of having sex with animals, and that’s where “bestiality”, when we say that, usually means some kind of sexual activity with animals.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
Now, um, there is some medical research about it. And medical research suggests that some zoophiles- [said “ZO-O-philes”] zoophiles- [“ZOO-philes”] Zoophiles. I just did it. Fuck my ass, Kyle. Some zoophiles only become aroused by specific species. Some are only into horses. Some zoophiles become aroused by multiple species, which may or may not include humans, and some zoophiles are not attracted to humans at all, just aminals. As far as the history is concerned, there are prehistoric caves that have paintings of people bangin’ animals and, uh, so it’s clearly been going on for at least that long. And doesn’t seem to be much shame about it when they’re like, you know, “Here’s a picture of me spearing an ox and here’s one of me fucking it.” Like-
KYLE GETZ
Oh, I thought spearing was the fucking.
MIKE JOHNSON
[laughs] Yeah. But, like, you know, there’s no great shame or evil if you’re just, like, you know, keeping a diary for everyone to read your cave wall.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
Um, there are some references in Hindu scriptures to religious figures that engage in symbolic sexual activity with animals. There are explicit depictions of people having sex with animals that are on the 1000s of sculptures of life events on the exterior of the temple at Khaju…raho. Khajuraho. [chuckles]
KYLE GETZ
Are you okay? That- [Mike laughs] During that, you sounded like you [chuckles] were fading or something.
MIKE JOHNSON
Well, I was trying to say it like a cat. [laughs]
KYLE GETZ
Kharaoraoraorao.
MIKE JOHNSON
Uh, but uh… So, in some Hindu traditions apparently, having sex with an animal was believed to be a human having sex with a God incarnated in the form of an animal.
KYLE GETZ
That sounds like a rumor that, like, whatever- like cats spread. They were like “No, no, no, no, no. Definitely have sex with us.”
MIKE JOHNSON
Right. Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
“We love it.”
MIKE JOHNSON
[laughs] No, don’t fuck your cat, everybody. [Kyle chuckles] Uh, but in some Hindu scriptures like the Bhagavata Purana and the Devi Bhagavata Purana, having sex with animals, especially cows because they sacred, leads you to hell.
KYLE GETZ
Ohhh- Oh. That’s a weird- Okay, not that I want to defend having sex with cows but, like, that’s a weird- Not only, like, about bestiality, but that’s also about the view of sex.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
Like, sex is ab- It’s not about- It’s a violation. Any sex is a violation, or something.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
Like- I don’t know. There’s- I didn’t expect- I thought you’re gonna say- I don’t know.
MIKE JOHNSON
I’ve- I’m- Okay, Kyle, I know that we are on lists. [Kyle chuckles] Like, the government keeps lists on search histories and we’re for sure on all of them.
KYLE GETZ
Because of our weird shit that we look up for this show?
MIKE JOHNSON
Whatever was left… definitely filled it today. You know?
KYLE GETZ
[chuckles] Yep. Yep.
MIKE JOHNSON
I read so much about bestiality and, uh, there’s a whole thing about how, like, some people defend bestiality when it’s with bigger animals because, uh, you’re “less likely to hurt them” so that makes it okay.
KYLE GETZ
Oh!
MIKE JOHNSON
So, like, they’re like “Go ahead and fuck cows. It’s not gonna hurt the cow. They’re huge.”
KYLE GETZ
Yeah, well, it’s like- Just like with gay men, it’s like- It’s less harm- It’s less hurtful the bigger their anus is.
MIKE JOHNSON
Right. [laughs] Yeah, exactly.
KYLE GETZ
So I could see that. Like, a rat’s butt is probably real tiny.
MIKE JOHNSON
Right. Right.
KYLE GETZ
Versus, a cow’s butt is huge. I could fit- I could fit a bunch of dicks in there.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
I actually see the logic, unfortu-
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
We see the logic in that.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yes. I- Yes.
KYLE GETZ
[chuckles] What are we doing?
MIKE JOHNSON
Great. Okay- I don’t know.
KYLE GETZ
Okay.
MIKE JOHNSON
I don’t know. I don’t know. Okay, so the Western tradition, like, this is where- this is where shit, like, gets real. So, bestiality was mentioned in the Book of Leviticus, and it was mentioned in the Book of Leviticus right next to the gay stuff, right? So, it’s “Man do not lay with man,” is right next to “Do not lay with beasts,” so there is, at least by proximity, a certain amount of familiarity [both chuckles] between the two concepts in the Bible. But they didn’t- They weren’t equated. They weren’t, like- They weren’t hooked together as being like the same kind of sin or, like, even like weighed against each other. They just were near each other in Leviticus. And for most of the early Christian Era, bestiality was basically no worse than masturbation. It got a little worse over time, but not by much. So, do you know what a penitential is?
KYLE GETZ
Mm-mm.
MIKE JOHNSON
A penitential?
KYLE GETZ
When I’m about to fuck a Pentecostal person?
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
They’re my penitential?
MIKE JOHNSON
Exactly.
KYLE GETZ
Yes.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yep. Also, [Kyle chuckles] it’s the name of a of a book that clergy would write to sort of provide guidelines for what the punishment should be for different kinds of sins.
KYLE GETZ
Oh, okay.
MIKE JOHNSON
So, like, you would go and you would confess and, at the confession then, you know, the priest would say “Hey, you know, you did this- these bad things so here’s your punishment for these crimes.”
KYLE GETZ
Hail Marys, for some reason, is in my mind of what people say at confessionals. Like, always do- Like, apparently if you do 10 Hail Marys you’re mostly forgiven for anything.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. Yeah, there’s, like, praying the rosary, and Hail Marys, and shit like that, but it could get more, like fasting, or self-exile, or other kinds of ascetic treatments like needing to whip yourself or- Like, there’s a whole bunch of different ways that it can take but the most common one, especially in media is – right – like the Hail Mary. Anyway, the Penitential of Cummean, which is super, super old, that’s like… fourth century?
KYLE GETZ
Mm. Before I was born.
Anyway- Yeah. Same, girl. [Kyle chuckles] Uh, says- So, dude-on-dude sex is 7 years of penance.
KYLE GETZ
Okay.
MIKE JOHNSON
Which is more than banging your own mom, which is only 3 years, unpremeditated murder, which is only 3 years, and bestiality was only 1 year. So, at least at that time-
KYLE GETZ
Woowww.
MIKE JOHNSON
-in the, like, hierarchy of shit, bestiality was like way down the list in terms of badness, and also, gay shit the very top.
KYLE GETZ
And also, I’m no, like, proponent of mom fucking, but the same as murder?!
KYLE GETZ
[laughs] Yeah, right. Well, unpremeditated murder. I guess premeditated murder, like, that’s the death penalty, right?
KYLE GETZ
Still. I mean- Yeah, okay. That’s wild. Wow, being gay was very bad!
MIKE JOHNSON
Well, you know, that’s- That’s what they thought.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
Um, so then there’s another penitential, the Paenitentiale Theodori, which, you sent me a big study about that.
KYLE GETZ
Oh.
MIKE JOHNSON
Thank you.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
Uh, it was- That’s 8th century. There was an Anglo-Latin penitential collection of Archbishop Theodore of Canterbury, his judgments about stuff, and that’s the first time, in writing, that bestiality and sex between men are compared. So, in it, he says that “He who often commits fornication with a man or with a beast should do penance for 10 years.”
KYLE GETZ
Mmm.
MIKE JOHNSON
So that’s- They are the same, and the penal- the punishment is 10 years.
KYLE GETZ
Hm.
MIKE JOHNSON
So, there’s- Usually, when people write about this, they say that the two sins were put together to dehumanize men who have sex with men but, at least according to this author that you sent me the paper from, it suggests the opposite, that bestiality was elevated to a serious sin because it was put on the same pedestal as gay shit.
KYLE GETZ
Mm. Hm. Because the thing before that actually said it was only one year.
MIKE JOHNSON
Right.
KYLE GETZ
And now they’re like “No. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. It’s bad.”
MIKE JOHNSON
It’s 10 years. They’re both 10 years, and it’s real bad. And so, basically, the association- The association wasn’t bringing gayness down, it was bringing bestiality down to the level of the gays.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
So that’s- You know.
KYLE GETZ
Weird. That’s- [sighs] That reflects how poorly we viewed gay people. That, more, is like what I take away from that. That sucks.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah, absolutely. Now, this- This paper that you sent me was super interesting because it also mentions that some of this is probably a cultural shift that, in England, people started thinking of animals as not just objects. They started thinking of them as having personalities and anthropomorphizing them, and so that’s when the sin of bestiality starts getting worse in the eyes of people. Because if you’re just- If it’s just masturbation, if you’re just, like- If that clucking chicken is just a Fleshjack then, you know, that’s- [chuckles] that’s not as bad as like, you know, mother hen who, like, cares about her babies. Like, you violating her, you know? [Kyle chuckles] What?
KYLE GETZ
You just… gave me a lot of imagery that is overwhelming. [Mike laughs] I just got so overwhelmed. I shut down. I didn’t know what to do with what you just said to me.
MIKE JOHNSON
Great.
KYLE GETZ
It’s fine. That’s- I need to get over it, because that’s gonna be this entire episode.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yep, the whole episode. Uh- [Kyle lets out a deep breath] So, at some point, the death penalty became the punishment for both gay sex and for bestiality and that was all the way up until 18th century in Western Europe, and colonial America by extension. So, apparently, between six and seven hundred people were executed for bestiality in 17th and 18th century Sweden. [saying it goofily] Sweden!
KYLE GETZ
[also saying it goofily] Sweden!
MIKE JOHNSON
Um, and in one bestiality in the case in the United States, in colonial Plymouth, 16 year old Thomas Grazer was forced to point out the sheep he’d had sex with from a lineup [Kyle chuckles] and then had to watch them be killed before he was executed.
KYLE GETZ
From a- Could I- Can he- Can you pick a sheep out of a lineup? Is that sheep-racist?
MIKE JOHNSON
I’m guessing it’s the ones that were smoking but- [Kyle laughs] [chuckles]
KYLE GETZ
Or fur is matted down because there was just the load shot on it!
MIKE JOHNSON
Oh, God.
KYLE GETZ
That’s hard to get- You need some warm water and maybe some detergent to get that out of your sheep.
MIKE JOHNSON
[sung] Goin’ to watch that cum right out of my sheep. [speaking] I don’t know, man.
KYLE GETZ
What’s that?
MIKE JOHNSON
I don’t know, man. Okay, so apparently some witches were accused of having sex with the devil as an animal.
KYLE GETZ
Ohhhh.
MIKE JOHNSON
So, he would turn into an animal and they could- they could then, you know, bang- bang- bang the devil.
KYLE GETZ
Sure. Sure.
MIKE JOHNSON
But uh, even though they were accused of that and confessed of that- Read The Crucible, y’all, some crazy witch trial bullshit happened. I guess, in some places, bestiality laws were based on the belief that sex with an animal could result in babies.
KYLE GETZ
Oh.
MIKE JOHNSON
Like, we didn’t understand how pregnancy and sex worked so it was like-
KYLE GETZ
Yeah, that seems like that’s not true.
MIKE JOHNSON
Don’t- Don’t fuck that dog, because you’re gonna have a dog baby… person.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
For sure.
KYLE GETZ
I guess I could see, like, before we knew stuff, to be like “Oo, that’s gonna make a weird dog-human hybrid monster.”
MIKE JOHNSON
Well, that’s why that bestiality- that death was prescribed to both the humans and the animals.
KYLE GETZ
Mmm.
MIKE JOHNSON
So-
KYLE GETZ
Oh, so it couldn’t- If it got accidentally pregnant during that time.
MIKE JOHNSON
That’s right. That’s right. So you had to- You had to kill them both. Let’s see… You said you had some stuff about bestiality law also-
KYLE GETZ
Yeah, yeah. A little bit.
MIKE JOHNSON
-but uh, the last few things about bestiality law. Apparently, bestiality is still legal in two states. Do you want to guess which ones?
KYLE GETZ
Arkansas?
MIKE JOHNSON
Nope! [chuckles]
KYLE GETZ
Um, California?
MIKE JOHNSON
Nope! [chuckles] It’s West Virginia – that checks out – and New Mexico.
KYLE GETZ
Hm. But the reason bestiality is legal in some places is because by- when we went through the process of decriminalizing, like, sodomy and stuff, sometimes those were already like paired together, so they accidentally decriminalized bestiality as well.
MIKE JOHNSON
Sure.
KYLE GETZ
So then they had to recriminalize bestiality as a separate kind of law, and it’s state by state. So, I don’t think there’s actually a federal law that criminalizes this.
MIKE JOHNSON
That’s fucking interesting.
KYLE GETZ
And- God, I’m gonna fact check that before I post that.
MIKE JOHNSON
Eh.
KYLE GETZ
Or- Or I won’t, who knows. And so it had- It’s, like, been state by state and- Am I just stealing your thunder? Do you have more?
MIKE JOHNSON
No, you’re doin’ great!
KYLE GETZ
One of the challenges that we have in criminalizing bestiality, like kind of getting it back on the books, is that how do you differentiate it from things that farmers do? Some farmers inseminate animals-
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah, animal husbandry.
KYLE GETZ
-or do, like, get them horny and stuff so that helps. Like, so how do you- You gotta try to find a way we can talk about that separately, of, like, what part of that- I don’t know. But, like, no one- For some reason farmers are the untouchable people that you can never make a law against. They’re “America’s backbone” or wh- I don’t know, whatever.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
So, like, they had to try to make laws that criminalize it but in a way that didn’t criminalize farming.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yep. Yep.
KYLE GETZ
Which is interesting.
MIKE JOHNSON
Have you ever seen, like, a bull, like-
KYLE GETZ
Whatever you’re about to say: no. [chuckles]
MIKE JOHNSON
Okay, great.
KYLE GETZ
Wait, but what- What- Have you- What have you seen?
MIKE JOHNSON
I said “bull” and I shouldn’t have. A cow. …Artificial insemination? You literally wear, like, a shoulder high glove.
KYLE GETZ
No- Oh.
MIKE JOHNSON
And J-Lube up like your entire arm so that you can shove a vial full of semen like all the way up in there.
KYLE GETZ
When you- Okay, when you started saying “you have to wear”, in my mind, I thought you’re gonna say like “…a white and black spotted, like, outfit” [Mike laughs] or like “a cow mask” or something. That’s where I thought you were going.
MIKE JOHNSON
You have to do the sexy cow dance.
KYLE GETZ
MooOoo! MooOoo! MooOooOooOoOo!
MIKE JOHNSON
Yoohoo.
KYLE GETZ
Yoohoo! Y- Moohoo!
MIKE JOHNSON
Moohoo. [both laugh]
KYLE GETZ
Oh no. Oh, boy.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah, yeah. Um- [Kyle chuckles] It’s just- It’s- It’s a- It’s a lot, and if it weren’t for, like, to make baby cows happen, it would definitely be… problematic.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. Yeah. Weird.
MIKE JOHNSON
Um, my two, like, random things, and we can get more about it-
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
In Hungary, apparently, there are no legal limitations to pornography that involve animals. So, uh, there’s a rather large industry – kind of underground but not really – that produces a number of films and magazines particularly for Dutch companies such as “Topscore” and “Book & Film International”. And, apparently, there’re even non-human porn stars like a Great Dane named “Hector” who starred in several films. [laughs]
KYLE GETZ
I mean-
MIKE JOHNSON
Good for you, Hector.
KYLE GETZ
I guess so, but couldn’t we get a better porn name?
MIKE JOHNSON
I don’t-
KYLE GETZ
Like, that’s not the best porn name, you know?
MIKE JOHNSON
But for a dog?
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah, I don’t know. “Champ”? [both laugh] What do you want to name him?
KYLE GETZ
I don’t know.
MIKE JOHNSON
Oh, alright.
KYLE GETZ
I’m trying to think of one but I’m not coming up with them. My- Animal porn names are not at the tip of my brain, unfortunately.
MIKE JOHNSON
Well, I would encourage you, later, if it comes into mind, just yell it out.
KYLE GETZ
Just yell? [chuckles]
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. Uh, and then last: apparently, in Japan, they have serious censorship laws around pornography but, because of a quirk of Japanese law, if the penis isn’t a human penis it’s okay. So they use animal pornography to bypass censorship laws. So, often there will be models that perform fellatio on animals because oral penetration of a non-human penis is not in the scope of their pixilation censorship law. Um, while primarily underground, there are a number of animal pornography actresses who specialize in bestiality movies.
KYLE GETZ
[sighs] Did you- Okay, I was- I also read a bunch of stuff about bestiality and got- found my way onto weird forums that, like-
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah, yeah.
KYLE GETZ
I, like, got up. It was upsetting to do this.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
Did you- How did you- Did you?
MIKE JOHNSON
I, multiple times, had the, like, “I don’t want to yuck anybody’s yum,” but, like… yuck. [both chuckle]
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
You know?
KYLE GETZ
Well that’s- Part of this conversation is like, is- We talk about yucking people’s yums when it’s, like, doing something consensual between…
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
…humans, is usually our discussion.
MIKE JOHNSON
I read a bunch of forums of people who were like “I’m sure my dog is into it,” and I’m like “Oh, that is a lot to unpack.”
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. Yes, I agree. I think we should get there. I think we should go through this info and then kind of like have that conversation, because we need to.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
But, um, speaking of… This actually segues. In the DSM, zoophilia is listed – in the latest version, the DSM-IV – under “other specified paraphilic disorder”.
MIKE JOHNSON
Okay.
KYLE GETZ
So, “paraphilia” is an experience or intense sexual arousal to atypical objects, situations, fantasies, or behaviors. So, it’s not just that it’s paraphilic, it has to be a disorder, which means- So, for it to count – for zoophilia to count in the DSM as a disorder – the interest must be recurring and intense, it must be present for at least 6 months, and it must cause marked distress or impairment in important areas of functioning. That’s what makes it the “disorder” part of this.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yep.
KYLE GETZ
Which is interesting because, like… why are we limiting it? Like, isn’t anything that causes- that is intense, lasts a long time, and causes distress to you- Aren’t- That could be anything.
MIKE JOHNSON
Sure.
KYLE GETZ
That can be drinking water. If I get so obsessed with drinking water, a normally good thing, and I do it all the time, and it interferes with my ability to get stuff done because I always have to be around my fridge to get water, like- I don’t know.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
Like, anything could- If it interrupts your day to day life and is intense, anything could be categorized under this.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. Well, and there’s also the opposite – or the corollary – right? Like, just because you’re not distressed by it doesn’t mean it’s good for you, right? [laughs]
KYLE GETZ
Right, right. Yes. Yes. Okay, so, interestingly, there are paraphilias that are listed, and this is “other specified paraphilic disorder”. So, examples they give are: zoophilia, necrophilia, coprophilia, which is-
MIKE JOHNSON
Yep, that’s eatin’ poop, everybody.
KYLE GETZ
-into scat. Um, there’s “klismaphilia” which is sexual arousal from enemas.
MIKE JOHNSON
Oh!
KYLE GETZ
There’s-
MIKE JOHNSON
I mean, a really good poop… pretty great.
KYLE GETZ
Right?
MIKE JOHNSON
So maybe.
KYLE GETZ
No- No, wait! Maybe what? You could see being into it?
MIKE JOHNSON
Maybe an enema would be one.
KYLE GETZ
Ohh.
MIKE JOHNSON
Get that shit movin’.
KYLE GETZ
Um- Yeah. Um, “urophilia” which is urination.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
The sight or thought- Like, urination. …And “telephone scatologia” which is not what it sounds like. It’s arousal for exposing unexpecting victims to sexual or obscene things over the phone.
MIKE JOHNSON
Oh, great.
KYLE GETZ
So, I think that’s a weird collection of examples that they have provided for this, because some I could see, like necrophilia, others like being into enemas… like, what the fuck do I care?
MIKE JOHNSON
Right, yeah.
KYLE GETZ
Like, I- Again, this is, like, if it causes disorder or if it causes prolonged issues with your life. So, to me, yeah, again, that can be anything. But, like, why these examples? Some of those feel like- Okay, necrophilia, that feels like a violation. That’s a problem whether or- Yeah, like you said, like, whether or not you have an issue with this, like, that seems like a problem you gotta work on, versus like being into like urine.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
Like, that’s so…
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
…common. Why would that be in the same list?
MIKE JOHNSON
If you spend like a prohibitive amount of time doing- like, with enemas, you might just be a bottom.
KYLE GETZ
You might be Dan Garlington. [both laugh] You might be a Dan. That’s my new stand-up bit.
MIKE JOHNSON
But hardly seems to be- Like, nobody’s getting harmed.
KYLE GETZ
Yes.
MIKE JOHNSON
Right?
KYLE GETZ
Yes.
MIKE JOHNSON
Same with watersports, really, right?
KYLE GETZ
Yes.
MIKE JOHNSON
Like, then why- why care? Why-
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
Why put that in a list of things to… be disordered? I don’t know. It’s odd.
KYLE GETZ
I agree. I think there’s a weird- Like, gayness was in the DSM in the past and it eventually was moved to, like, “only if it causes you distress”. Like, so it seems like this is- The, like, “only if it causes distress” is the out that they add on to something that maybe might not be an issue.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
KYLE GETZ
Which, I think it still sucks when something is in there, because, regardless, that demonizes that even if you have- with all the proper clarifications and like “only if it harms you”, like, I think you’re still giving a negative slant to this thing and saying it’s poss- Like-
MIKE JOHNSON
Yep.
KYLE GETZ
Like- Yeah, “Why include it at all?” is the question.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yep. Well, maybe it’s worth talking about why, why it happens.
KYLE GETZ
Sure.
MIKE JOHNSON
So, before I go into the “why it happens”, I do want to talk about this article that I found in The Independent that was “Why would anyone want to have sex with an animal?” [TN: “Why would anyone want to have sex with an animal? The psychology of bestiality”] And, uh, Dr. Anil Aggrawal published a comprehensive typology of zoophilia in the Journal of Forensic and Legal Medicine and, in that, claims that there are 10 different types of zoophile based on scientific and clinical literature. So, they are “human-animal role-players”, and those are people who never have sex with animals but become sexually aroused through wanting to have sex with humans who are pretending to be animals.
KYLE GETZ
Hm.
MIKE JOHNSON
Is that furries? I-
KYLE GETZ
That seems very different than furries. I think furries very int- Or, a lot of them, very intentionally separate this out like “I am not trying to have sex with an animal,” like “I am having sex with- in this costume.” And- Okay, we did a whole episode. It’s not even about sex for some people.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
For most people it’s not about sex at all. So I think it- I think it’s different… but there’s gotta be like a small overlap, like more than the general population because- I don’t know.
MIKE JOHNSON
As it’s written, it’s like “sexually aroused through wanting to have sex with humans who pretend to be animals.” Like, knowing that it’s pretend is part of there.
MIKE JOHNSON
Hm, okay.
MIKE JOHNSON
“Romantic zoophiles” are those who keep animals as pets as a way to get psychosexually stimulated without actually having any kind of sexual contact with them. “Zoophilic fantasizers”, those who fantasize about having sexual intercourse with animals but never actually do. There’re “tactile zoophiles”, those who get sexual excitement from touching, stroking or fondling animals or their genitals but do not actually have sexual intercourse with animals. Uh, there are “fetishistic zoophiles”, and those are those who keep various animal parts, especially fur, that are used as erotic stimuli as a crucial part of their sexual activity, typically masturbation.
KYLE GETZ
Why, out of all of this, is like you just find someone with a collection of fur?
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
Eugh, why did that gross me out more than other things?
MIKE JOHNSON
I don’t know.
KYLE GETZ
I don’t know. That’s like… [doing a nasally creep voice] “I kept a cool lump of your hair.”
MIKE JOHNSON
[chuckles] “I have a box of cat hair and it’s hot!”
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. Yes, I see.
MIKE JOHNSON
Um, “sadistic bestials”, those who derive sexual arousal from the torturing of animals, known as “zoosadism”, but does not involve sexual intercourse with the animal. There are “opportunistic zoosexuals”, those who have normal sexual encounters but would have sexual intercourse with animals if the opportunity arose. Uh, “regular zoosexuals”, those who prefer sex with animals over sex with humans but are capable of having sex with both. They will engage in a wide range of sexual activities with animals and love animals on an emotional level. There are “homicidal bestials”, those who need to kill animals in order to have sex with them.
KYLE GETZ
Hoo, boy.
MIKE JOHNSON
Although capable of having sex with live animals, there is an insatiable desire to have sex with dead animals. And, last, “exclusive zoosexuals”, those who only have sex with animals to the exclusion of human sexual partners. I- So- I don’t know. There’s a big, wide array of different ways that somebody might be wired this way and- or why. But one thing that’s interesting that led to a bunch of research being done on is those violent ones, like homicidal bestials that I was just talking about, for sure, along with like setting things on fire and bedwetting are part of a cluster of things that occur around childhood to people who end up being serial killers or other otherwise sociopathic.
KYLE GETZ
Okay, I read about that.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
And they called it “the Link” between- There’s this- There are- Like, more recently, this has been the big concern in bestiality. Like, you know, there’s moral rights, and animal rights, and that but, more recently, a concern about the relationship between animal cruelty and interpersonal violence, known as “the Link”, capital l “Link”. Sorry, Zelda-
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. [chuckles]
KYLE GETZ
-this is the new Link. And-
MIKE JOHNSON
The Triforce! Why is the Triforce gonna keep coming up in this episode? [Kyle chuckles] Homosexuality, bestiality, and pedophilia. Yay!
KYLE GETZ
[chuckles] Yeah, we need a- Maybe we need to not connect- I don’t know. Other people already connect it. But, like, they said that studies that are done on this are done on prisoners…
MIKE JOHNSON
Okay.
KYLE GETZ
…not the general population.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah, yeah.
KYLE GETZ
So, while… Recent- Okay, I read something that said, quote, “the research suggests that individuals with interest in bestiality likely have a host of atypical sexual interests, some of which may lead to interpersonal offending or … use of problematic pornography,” end quote. The downside though is that there’s no direct scientific evidence that’s like the clear- the Link. Like, clear- Like, done – you know – done on the general population that confirms absolutely that these two things are related.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
KYLE GETZ
And so it may be more likely to cause this, but I don’t think we’re- I don’t think the science is totally there yet.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. Yeah. Well, so there are some things that the science is there on.
KYLE GETZ
Okay.
MIKE JOHNSON
There are some medical conditions that do account for zoophilic behavior. So, if- There are sometimes cerebral tumors located in the frontal lobe, or in the limbic system, or the hypothalamus, can lead people to become zoophilic when they weren’t before they had the tumors.
KYLE GETZ
Hm! Weird.
MIKE JOHNSON
A very recent case in the journal “Romanian Neurosurgery” described the late onset of zoophilia in a 42 year old man who suddenly started engaging in zoophilic behavior following an aneurysm in the posterior cerebral artery. More specifically, he developed a sexual interest towards the hens in his garden, and his wife found him several times having sex with the hens. Unfortunately, he died a few weeks later because the aneurysm burst. Another report that was in the Annals of Pharmacotherapy highlighted the case of a 74 year old man who developed zoophilic tendencies five days after he started dopaminergic therapy for Parkinson’s disease. He was diagnosed with Parkinson’s, they put them on a medication, and he immediately started having- like, bestiality was part of his life. So there’s like- It’s- There’s clearly some, like, brain chemistry things that can be true for people that are engaging this kind of behavior. Also, zoophilia has been studied as an early sign of psychosis. So, um, it’s something that people can experience right before, like in the prodrome stage, of a psychotic break. In the 1970s, there was this dude who was a sexologist named John Money. [Kyle chuckles] Yeeaaah!
KYLE GETZ
Nice.
MIKE JOHNSON
But uh, he did a study and concluded that zoophilic behaviors were transitory – or, sometimes transitory – when it occurred because of no other sexual outlet being available. So, that it was like a- like a projection.
KYLE GETZ
Almost like a situational thing.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. So that leads to the bestiality- a connection to gayness, that there are lots of gays who may seek out animals as a sexual outlet because they either can’t or won’t let themselves give into their natural sexual orientation of being a homosexual. So, like “I’m just so deeply closeted and I can’t,” but, so then, like, something about that, their brain then imprints on animals.
KYLE GETZ
Hm. That’s a dangerous kind of thing because, like, if there is some connection and if there is scientific connection, people could use that and very easily misconstrue that to say “all” when it’s actually the shame that people give gayness because, by making these connections, is part of the root issue, not the- It’s not a critique of what’s actually happening.
MIKE JOHNSON
Absolutely.
KYLE GETZ
It’s a weird chicken and the egg. [chuckles]
MIKE JOHNSON
Yep. 100%. Although, I mean- Same thing with the pedophilia episode, right? Like, if it’s true, I- I don’t want to hide from that, right?
KYLE GETZ
Right.
MIKE JOHNSON
Like, so- Anyway.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
Um, yeah. But those are some of the reasons why, that apparently, you know, have something to do or might have something to do with brain chemistry or the awful horrific nature of society and making gay people closeted.
KYLE GETZ
Some of the, like- Of the 10 types, some of them were violent and clearly bad. Like, there’s n- We don’t even have to discuss the moral implications of like killing an animal and having sex with it. But others that are more about, like- I don’t know. There’s just a variety of types. Some of this clearly can be caused by external situations. Some- Like, I read something that said- Like, some- One of the researchers believed that this was an inborn characteristic, so it could be that too.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
I don’t know. Did you read anything definitive on whether-?
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah, and people making- Um, yes. And people making the claim that it’s the same as homosexuality, right?
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
That, like, another- Another “They can’t help themselves,” or “It’s not a choice,” like that somehow justifies the behavior, which is something that we also saw in the Pedophilia episode.
KYLE GETZ
Right. Yes. I do believe that pedophilic people were born that way, and also we need to remember that that- just because you were born with something does not make it okay.
MIKE JOHNSON
Right.
KYLE GETZ
Like, that’s not why- That’s not why gayness is okay,
MIKE JOHNSON
Right. Yep, absolutely.
KYLE GETZ
So-
MIKE JOHNSON
Yep, I agree.
KYLE GETZ
Should I say some numbers?
MIKE JOHNSON
Say some numbers, Kyle. You have gayta?
KYLE GETZ
A little bit. There- These are the num- If you look up- Like, anyone will come across these same numbers because we have such limited data on this. So, one of the numbers I came across was from a 2021 review of 13 different papers that estimated it was prevalent in 2% of the populations, zoophilia was. That was a study by-
MIKE JOHNSON
That seems like a lot. Like, 2% of everyone is a lot of fuckin’ people.
KYLE GETZ
Hold on to your chickens because here comes- Um, back in the 40s and 50s, Kinsey, famous for the Kinsey scale, who did a lot of research, he was- like, had the more accurate number of gay people: account for like 10%. He- This was one of the questions, one of the things he studied, and he said men who have some form of sexual contact with an animal, across their lifespan, was at 8%.
MIKE JOHNSON
Whew! Yeah! Get it.
KYLE GETZ
And-
MIKE JOHNSON
I don’t- [both chuckle]
KYLE GETZ
And he said, when looking at people that were raised on farms, it’s closer to 40-50%.
MIKE JOHNSON
Mm.
KYLE GETZ
That seems- To be like almost half of people, that seems…
MIKE JOHNSON
[makes a confused sound like “I dunno”]
KYLE GETZ
Mrrr?
MIKE JOHNSON
[chuckles] Mmmoooo!
KYLE GETZ
Uh, for women, it was- I don’t know why it was separated out for preadolescents and adolescents, but 1.5 reported bestiality in preadolescents and 3.6 in adolescence. So, both 2%, seems like a big number, like a big percentage. And Kinsey, who- I don’t know if I have those numbers also. Kinsey’s numbers seem high. He was also right about some of the stuff that he said for his time.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. Yep.
KYLE GETZ
But something I read said that- [chuckles] I’ll read. Quote, “Considering that humanity has been aware of and legislated bestiality for over 3000 years, it is remarkable how little scientific knowledge exists on the topic.”
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
And I think this is something that, like, we run across. There are topics like this that are just taboo to even talk about, to have our episode name this. And, like, I don’t like the idea of it being taboo to talk about because I think there- We’re not gonna get anywhere by not studying it.
MIKE JOHNSON
Right.
KYLE GETZ
We’re not gonna get anywhere by not researching it and, in fact, I think directly the opposite. It was going to directly harm our understanding and knowledge of what to do about this.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely.
KYLE GETZ
If we- If we- The more we know about it and understand it, the more we can decide “Do we need to legislate this? Are people born this way and we need to help?” Like, that would train- And, clearly, you told me other examples so it’s not just that but, you know, maybe some set is born like this and we need to help those people differently and we need to make it okay- I’d rather them talk about it than fucking do this thing in secret, like, to kill and fuck animal in secret.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yep. Yep.
KYLE GETZ
Like, I’d rather make it a little bit more okay to talk about so that we can deal with the problem.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yep.
KYLE GETZ
And I think that’s what a lot of people don’t want to do. They just think talking about it as bad.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah, and the dehumanizing effect of it all – right? – too. Like, who wants to be the person that’s gonna help a pedophile?
KYLE GETZ
Right.
MIKE JOHNSON
You know?
KYLE GETZ
Right.
MIKE JOHNSON
Which is so heartless and cruel.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
And, like, very non-Christian actually. UnChristian. Right?
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
So-
KYLE GETZ
Yeah, Christians should be all over this. So, okay, are we to the point where we talk about what do we think about it? Like-
MIKE JOHNSON
Or do you wanna play a game first?
KYLE GETZ
Let’s play game! That’ll be a fun- I think- I think I would- I would- Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
Great! Kyle, you’re gonna play a game called “Bestiality or Neigh!” [both chuckle] Are you ready?
KYLE GETZ
Okay, can you tell me the rules?
MIKE JOHNSON
The rules are: I’m gonna tell you a -philia of some kind, which is a sexual interest or act of having sex with… something, and I want you to tell me if that is bestiality or not.
KYLE GETZ
Okay. There are various types of -philias under the bestiality umbrella?
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeeep. Are you ready?
KYLE GETZ
Oh, God- I thought we were gonna have a fun lighthearted like “Remember Toucan Sam?”
MIKE JOHNSON
Mm. Mm.
KYLE GETZ
I don’t know.
MIKE JOHNSON
Are you ready?
KYLE GETZ
Ye- Yes.
MIKE JOHNSON
Here we go! “Ornithophilia”.
KYLE GETZ
Bestiality is that.
MIKE JOHNSON
Correct, that’s sex with birds!
KYLE GETZ
Birds- Okay, look, birds seem like the worst ones to have sex with! [Mike laughs] They’re little, they have beaks, they can fly a- They can literally fly away from you! Like, that just- Okay.
MIKE JOHNSON
There’s 20 of these, so…
KYLE GETZ
Sorry! [Mike laughs] Okay, yeah. I also don’t have to critique each animal and tell you how fuckable they are.
MIKE JOHNSON
Uhh, I- So, if you want to take a stab, if you want to guess what you think it is too, that could be maybe funny.
KYLE GETZ
Okay.
MIKE JOHNSON
“Dacryphilia”?
KYLE GETZ
I’m gonna say neigh. That’s sex with Dax Shepard.
MIKE JOHNSON
That- I’m gonna give you the point for the necrophilia- or- Necrophilia? Whew.
KYLE GETZ
Whew!
MIKE JOHNSON
Maybe that was a Freudian slip of the dead tongue. Uh, you get a point for Bestiality or Neigh. The- Like, your guess doesn’t matter. Like- Okay.
KYLE GETZ
Right, right. Well, it matters to me.
MIKE JOHNSON
But you said neigh, which is correct. That’s turned on by tears or crying.
KYLE GETZ
Oh my god.
MIKE JOHNSON
[chuckles] Okay. Uh-
KYLE GETZ
Hey, if you’re into that hit, me up. [both chuckle]
MIKE JOHNSON
Uh, “hoplophilia”?
KYLE GETZ
Uh, I’m gonna say… bestiality. I don’t- I have no i- Oh, into rabbits!
MIKE JOHNSON
It is not. It is turned on by guns.
KYLE GETZ
Eugh. Ehh.
MIKE JOHNSON
So, all of Florida.
KYLE GETZ
[chuckles] America.
MIKE JOHNSON
Uh, “lactophilia”?
KYLE GETZ
I’m gonna say neigh. I’m gonna say that’s into, like, milk or milking.
MIKE JOHNSON
Turned on by breast milk, that’s correct. Uh, “gerontophilia”?
KYLE GETZ
I’m gonna say neigh. That’s into… giants.
MIKE JOHNSON
Neigh, that’s turned on by elderly people.
KYLE GETZ
Ohhh.
MIKE JOHNSON
Uh, let’s see. Next, “kleptophilia”.
KYLE GETZ
Neigh. Are you sexually excited by stealing things?
MIKE JOHNSON
That’s correct, turned on by stealing things. “Podophilia”?
KYLE GETZ
Uh, yes? Just because I haven’t said “yes” in a bit and I don’t know what that would be. But-
MIKE JOHNSON
Uh, it is not. It’s being turned on by feet.
KYLE GETZ
Ohhh, I should have- [sighs quickly] Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
“Melissophilia”?
KYLE GETZ
…Neigh. That’s being turned on by Melissa Joan Hart.
MIKE JOHNSON
[laughs] Uh, it is. It’s sex with or arousal from bees.
KYLE GETZ
Okay, I said birds were one of the worst ones to sex with… [Mike laughs] Bees? Oh my god… they jizzed over Bee Movie.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah, probably.
MIKE JOHNSON
Or they… honeyed their pants…
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
…or whatever. Okay.
MIKE JOHNSON
[chuckles] Uh, let’s see… “Dendrophilia”?
KYLE GETZ
Uh, no, that’s into De… Dharma & Greg.
MIKE JOHNSON
That’s- [chuckles] That’s- No, that’s turned on by trees.
KYLE GETZ
Ohohoh! Trees, okay.
MIKE JOHNSON
“Batrachophilia”?
KYLE GETZ
Yes. You’re into bats?
MIKE JOHNSON
That’s yes, but it’s sex with or arousal from frogs.
KYLE GETZ
Again, not the best… You know? There’s some- Okay.
MIKE JOHNSON
Ribbit. [Kyle chuckles] Uh, “herpetophilia”?
KYLE GETZ
At least they can puff up their chest, and that’s sexy.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
Bold, confident. Um, no. That-
MIKE JOHNSON
Their bulgy throats?
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. Um, their long tongues.
MIKE JOHNSON
Mhm.
KYLE GETZ
From across the room. Um, uh- No, wait. What’d you say?
MIKE JOHNSON
“Herpetophilia”.
KYLE GETZ
No. Something about grass?
MIKE JOHNSON
Uh, it is. That’s sex with arousal from lizards.
KYLE GETZ
Ohh.
MIKE JOHNSON
“Brontophilia”?
KYLE GETZ
Yes. I’m gonna say yes, because that sounds like a dinosaur.
MIKE JOHNSON
Uh, no, that is being turned on by thunder.
KYLE GETZ
Ohoho!
MIKE JOHNSON
Mhm.
KYLE GETZ
Boy, that sucks. That time- You gotta work out that timing so specifically.
MIKE JOHNSON
[laughs] Yeah, you’re just like chasing the storm all the way across the plains just so you can get off.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. Oh that’s what the- That’s what the movie “Twister” was about.
MIKE JOHNSON
Absolutely. [Kyle chuckles] Uh, “delphinophilia”?
KYLE GETZ
Dolphins. Yes.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yes. That’s sex with dolphins. Uh, “cynophilia”?
KYLE GETZ
No. Into sinuses.
MIKE JOHNSON
[both chuckle] That is, uh- That is yes. That’s sex with or arousal from dogs. “Forniphilia”?
KYLE GETZ
No. I don’t know what that is.
MIKE JOHNSON
No, and it is getting turned on by using humans as furniture.
KYLE GETZ
Oh! I’ve seen that in dom/sub videos. Yeah. [Mike chuckles] Yeah, yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
Uh, “equinophilia”?
KYLE GETZ
Yes. Into horses.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yes, into horses! “Arachnophilia”?
KYLE GETZ
Yes. Into spiders?
MIKE JOHNSON
Yes, into spiders.
KYLE GETZ
Okay, sorry, new worst one.
MIKE JOHNSON
[laughs] Uh, “formicophilia”?
KYLE GETZ
No, because you’re into Formica?
MIKE JOHNSON
Uh, yes.
KYLE GETZ
Oh.
MIKE JOHNSON
That is sex with or arousal from insects crawling on you.
KYLE GETZ
Okay. Eugh. Ew. Eugh! Whew.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. And, last one, “emys-” “emys-” “Emysphilia”?
KYLE GETZ
Uh, no. It’s arousal to being skinny.
MIKE JOHNSON
Uh, that is- That is yes. That is sex with or arousal from turtles. [Kyle chuckles] So, out of 20, you got 1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9. So-
KYLE GETZ
Ugh, that means I lost.
MIKE JOHNSON
That means you lost, but-
KYLE GETZ
You know what? Losing at a bestiality game… I might be okay with that.
MIKE JOHNSON
[chuckles] But I did want to talk briefly about- I don’t know how many of those are actually real. So emysphilia, I put it last on purpose because it’s apparently- it was discovered by Dr. Daniel Schechner of the University of Hawaiʻi in 1959. He dedicated a brief portion of his monograph “The Varieties of Sexual Experience” to this fetish. In the book, he mentions a native Hawaiian islander, known to the reader as “Mr. Gor”, who confesses a strong sexual attraction to creatures belonging to the order Testudines. The thing is, it was all- it was all made up. It was absolutely fake. It was totally, totally made up. There was an article on the topic, written by June Torbati in a 2007 issue of the Yale Daily News, and she provided the background to the fake paraphilia. And, apparently, “Johan Behan” [TN: actually John Behan] is the name of somebody who, on purpose, made fake Wikipedia articles that sounded as real as possible in order to try to, uh, disrupt the system. So, he said- He created many fake articles for Wikipedia, the most successful of which was the entry on turtle fucking. To ensure others would find the article believable, he had to do more than just write one entry on emysphilia. He created several others relating to the fake fetish and linked them. Quote, “It’s an art of creating a web of phoniness,” he said. Additionally, striking an academic tone was important to creating an air of legitimacy. You need to write it in a way that makes it sound like it’s something possible. If you write it like an authoritative pronouncement, it tends to work better. Anyway, so, like- It’s like that “sex with tractors” thing that took off that’s not actually real. Like, that totally is fuckin’ made up.
KYLE GETZ
Or that birds aren’t real.
MIKE JOHNSON
Birds aren’t real. Uh, there was a case in Australia of a man that supposedly died banging a crocodile. Did not happen. It’s interesting, people love to lie about fuckin’ animals, Kyle!
KYLE GETZ
[laughs] Dog the Booty Hunter!
MIKE JOHNSON
[laughs] “Dog the Booty Hunter”?
KYLE GETZ
That’s a good porn name, right?
MIKE JOHNSON
That’s fantastic.
KYLE GETZ
Sorry. [chuckles] Sorry, you were still saying stuff.
MIKE JOHNSON
I’m glad you did it. No, no, that’s it. Just, like- Like- I think that it’s so taboo that people want to believe things about it.
KYLE GETZ
Oh. Well, why would someone make up this weird thing if it’s not… if it’s not real? Like, it’s so absurd it seems like then it would have to be true.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yep.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yep.
KYLE GETZ
I could see that.
MIKE JOHNSON
I will say though, for sure, dogs and horses are real. That’s typically, in some studies, what the top of the list is.
KYLE GETZ
Hm. Top indeed. Um, so, what are your views on, like, should it be more accepted? How- What do you think about bestiality, Mike?
MIKE JOHNSON
I think that the crux of the situation is consent.
KYLE GETZ
Mhm.
MIKE JOHNSON
Animals can’t consent. Maybe some gorillas can, I don’t know. [Kyle chuckles] But, like- And maybe some dolphins can, when we get that, like, secret decoder ring figured out? But, to me, it’s about consent more than anything else, right? And no, your dog can’t consent. Like, it can look lovingly into your eyes as you rail it but that doesn’t mean, like, it’s actually into it. Like- Um, so- I mean, I think that, like other paraphilias, everything, we need to approach people with their humanity in mind and with compassion. And it’s, I don’t think, a victimless crime. I think- I think animals can’t consent and making them do sexy stuff with you is a violation so, therefore, not great. I don’t know. How about you?
KYLE GETZ
I listened to this lecture on the podcast called “Gresham College Lectures”, an episode from 2020 called “Loving Animals” by Joanna Bourke. And she talked about, like, some of the things that, like- I was really trying to think about this and trying to not have my judgmental attitude, and really think about it. And you’re right. Like, consent is absolutely one of those big things. She talked about, like, there are a lot of things we do with animals. We cuddle them, they lay in bed with us, we kiss them, we pet them lovingly, we treat them as our own family. Like, there are a lot of ways we treat animals and-
MIKE JOHNSON
Also, don’t fuck your family, everybody. Go ahead.
KYLE GETZ
Depends. [Mike laughs] Step- [chuckles] That seems to be every porn, is your step-whoever. And, she also talked about the fact that animals- we often view animals and bestiality through the lens of violence, like something negative or bad has happened to them, and don’t view animals as having their own independent lifeworld. They have sex drives, they have- they, um, have desires and libidos, and they masturbate for pleasure, and they have sex with other animals for pleasure. They have sex with other animals outside of their species for pleasure, sometimes consensually sometimes not. Like, they- They have their own world and they deserve to be valued. So, I guess- She didn’t really say it directly but I guess she was arguing that there is a kind of love for animals that can be acceptable or something. She didn’t get me all- She didn’t get me there yet. I still agree that, like- I think- I do start to, like, “Let’s pick the extreme example of, like, ‘can a gorilla consent?’” but, like, I don’t- I don’t think that, like, animals can truly understand what is happening even if they can sign the word “yes” or whatever.
MIKE JOHNSON
Mhm. Mhm, mhm.
KYLE GETZ
Can they, like, truly understand what is happening here? And- I don’t know. Yeah, so, your dog can look like he’s into it but I- Yeah, I still have an issue with, like, the consent and, even if they seem into it, how much do they understand about what- like, what’s happening, what pleasure you’re getting from this, and what you’re kinda doing to them?
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
I think the view was interesting, reminding, like, animals have their own agency and deserve to, like, live, basically, and have their own sex drives. That was an interesting reminder that was like someone trying to view it from a different angle, but yeah, it didn’t- didn’t-
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
Didn’t convince me that that’s okay.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah, I remain unconvinced as well.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. Well, that’s the verdict I guess.
MIKE JOHNSON
Oh my god, Kyle!
KYLE GETZ
What?
MIKE JOHNSON
We didn’t talk about horse dicks even once.
KYLE GETZ
[chuckles] Well, now we did!
MIKE JOHNSON
Now we did.
KYLE GETZ
What-
MIKE JOHNSON
I think is really interesting that we talked about, like, dudes with big penises are “hung like a horse”, “hung like a mule”, “hung like a donkey”, “hung like a rhino”, “hung like an animal.” Like, it’s-
KYLE GETZ
Oh.
MIKE JOHNSON
We’re talking about fuckin’ bestiality!
KYLE GETZ
Oh!
MIKE JOHNSON
It’s an inhumanly large penis. It’s a- It’s an animal dick. Like, that’s-
KYLE GETZ
And that’s, like, sexy and okay.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yes! Isn’t that- Like, what the fuck?
KYLE GETZ
So, okay, if you judge people-
MIKE JOHNSON
Show me your horse cocks, everybody. [both chuckle]
KYLE GETZ
There’s no such thing as 10-inch horse dicks. That’s not true.
MIKE JOHNSON
Well, horse dicks for sure. Like, actual horses, yeah.
KYLE GETZ
But if you judge people that, like, do the – again, like, the consensual – thing of either- Not all furries. It’s- For most of them, it’s not about sex. But for those where it is, that yiff, go- like, go for it. Or, like, you know, having sex with people pretending to be animals. All of that is like… no, like, that part is cool. Like, you’re consenting, you’re adults, you know what’s happening, and if you feel like it’s gross, like, yeah, just- You’re- That’s a good entry point, in my mind, of, like, we talk about “horse hung” and that’s okay.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
So there’s something there to comparing to animals that we’ve all kind of just said is acceptable socially.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yep.
KYLE GETZ
So-
MIKE JOHNSON
Yep. Yep. Okay, well, great. Uh, in the Patreon I’m gonna talk about 10 countries where bestiality is a thing.
KYLE GETZ
Wow. Okay. I’m interested and scared.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah, me too. Where.
KYLE GETZ
And US is amongst them. Like-
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
We should make sure that we are- we are no… scapegoat? Wait. [laughs]
MIKE JOHNSON
[like a goat] Maaaaa. [chuckles]
KYLE GETZ
I don’t know.
MIKE JOHNSON
Should we take a break?
KYLE GETZ
Let’s take a break!
MIKE JOHNSON
Let’s take a break.
[Break music plays, sung by MIKE JOHNSON]
This is the part where Mike and Kyle take a break!
MIKE JOHNSON
So, are we back?
KYLE GETZ
We’re back!
MIKE JOHNSON
We’re back! [chuckles]
KYLE GETZ
We’re gonna do our Gayest-
MIKE JOHNSON
We’re [baaing like a sheep] Baaaaack. [both chuckle]
KYLE GETZ
We’re gonna do our Gayest & Straightest.
MIKE JOHNSON
We’re gonna do our Gayest & Straightest, but first… you motherfuckers, tickets are on sale now.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah!
MIKE JOHNSON
For our live show.
KYLE GETZ
They went on sale May 1st.
MIKE JOHNSON
They went on sale May 1st. Uh, there is a promo code in the Patreon app that will get you 50% off, so be sure to use that.
KYLE GETZ
If you’re a Patreon member.
MIKE JOHNSON
And, uh, yeah. Go to gayishpodcast.com/live. All of the links to the tickets can be found in there. Sunday June 4th in New York, Friday June 23rd in Seattle, Saturday July 29th in Chicago, Sunday August 13th in San Francisco, Sunday September 10th in L.A., and Sunday October 15th in Houston. We would love to see you beautiful little faces.
KYLE GETZ
And, wonderful fuckers…
MIKE JOHNSON
Mhm.
KYLE GETZ
…m’fuckers, if you think you’re gonna go, please- I mean, both buy a ticket now because you get a discount because they’re on presale right now. So buy a ticket-
MIKE JOHNSON
Except New York, but yeah.
KYLE GETZ
Except New York. Um, buy a ticket now, for you and also for us. It helps us to know that people are gonna show up, because if no one shows up we’re not gonna do a show there.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeaaah!
KYLE GETZ
So, like, please make sure you buy tickets now and bring your friends, and it’ll be a lovely time and you’ll get a drink with your ticket.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
And that’ll be great.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. Also, everyone…
KYLE GETZ
Yeah?
MIKE JOHNSON
…we’ve been doing a Gayish spotlight segment and putting it on the Patreon app.
KYLE GETZ
“We’ve been doing it” meaning we’ve done one so far.
MIKE JOHNSON
Two! We did two!
KYLE GETZ
It’s not up yet.
MIKE JOHNSON
Oh.
KYLE GETZ
We will- We will publish the second soon.
MIKE JOHNSON
Okay, great. Uh, but yeah, we had Queers in Your Ears which is a podcast. We did an interview with them and we did an interview with Brad Shreve from the podcast “Queer We Are”. And, even though it’s on the Patreon app, they’re public posts so anybody can go and listen to them.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. I’ve really liked both of the conversations we’ve had. Go listen to both of those podcasts. Yeah, I think they’re really interesting conversations about the people that make these LGBT podcasts, why they make them, what the podcasts are about. Brad’s was really interesting. He shared a lot about his story so, whenever that comes out, look out for it. And we’ll post about it on our socials, so- So yeah, keep an eye out for that.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeeaaah!
KYLE GETZ
Just a fun extra thing that we want to do.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeeeaah!
KYLE GETZ
And hopefully we’ll do more, like, interviews and discussions with LGBT podcasters and others that we think are interesting.
MIKE JOHNSON
Business owners… I dunno.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
Like, important people…
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
Not important people… whatever.
KYLE GETZ
Regular people.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
Animals.
MIKE JOHNSON
Uh, okay, it’s time for the Local Gay Bar Review!
KYLE GETZ
Ooo!
MIKE JOHNSON
Okay, this time I’m gonna talk to you about Boston, Massachusetts, and the bar is called “The Alley”, which is in an alley.
KYLE GETZ
Good name, good name.
MIKE JOHNSON
Uh, yeah. Okay, so first of all, went there, it’s an adorable space. There’s like an upstairs, not like a- not like another floor but like a loft kind of area, a big wraparound bar, lots of booths, and saw lots of different kinds of people there, which, you know, is always a big thing for me. But, on this particular evening, the upstairs loft was taken over by, like, a pup/leather event of some kind.
KYLE GETZ
Interesting.
MIKE JOHNSON
So there were a bunch of pup hoods and, like, a boy in full latex running around. And there was a tour guide up there, he was- “Pup Sticks” was his name.
KYLE GETZ
A tour guide?
MIKE JOHNSON
Yep. We went up the stairs and we definitely looked tentative like we weren’t sure that we belong. [Kyle chuckles] And so they, like, gave us a tour guide.
KYLE GETZ
Wow!
MIKE JOHNSON
His name was “Pup Sticks” and he, like, took us around.
KYLE GETZ
That’s such a good idea. Like, I bet they see that on people’s faces and they’re like “You don’t know what’s happening, do you?”
MIKE JOHNSON
Right. [both chuckle] Yeah. Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
It was great. It was really, really great.
KYLE GETZ
That’s cool.
MIKE JOHNSON
And then I got recognized twice-
KYLE GETZ
Wow.
MIKE JOHNSON
-there, independently.
KYLE GETZ
Because you’re so famous.
MIKE JOHNSON
It wasn’t the same- It wasn’t the same people. It was one person that was one booth over that was like “Are you Mike from Gayish?” and I was like “Yeah.” And then Tito Burrito.
KYLE GETZ
Oh, hi Tito!
MIKE JOHNSON
Ran into Tito Burrito that evening. And then, Kyle…! [Kyle gasps] I got laid.
KYLE GETZ
Oooh.
MIKE JOHNSON
5 dildos.
KYLE GETZ
Whooooooooaaaaaaaaaa! [Mike laughs] Baow baow baow baow! Doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo! Confetti, confetti, confetti.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah, but, you know, at least a half of one of those dildos is just to spite you. [laughs]
KYLE GETZ
I’m so happy. We made it happen together, everyone.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
They said- All the haters said it could never happen.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yep. Yep. Herem we are.
KYLE GETZ
Herem we are. I have two things.
MIKE JOHNSON
Great.
KYLE GETZ
If you are a Patreon member and you’re listening to this the day before, and it’s Wednesday still, our happy hour’s tonight.
MIKE JOHNSON
Oh yeah!
KYLE GETZ
So come hang out with us. If you’re not a Patreon member, it already happened because you didn’t- you don’t have access to this.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yep. There’s always next time.
KYLE GETZ
But, um, there’s always next time. So, it is Wednesday 6pm Pacific, 9pm Eastern. The details will be posted to Patreon. So check Patreon for that info. Um, and we’re really excited. This year we’re gonna be sponsors of Trans Pride Seattle so-
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeeeah!
KYLE GETZ
Now, more than ever, it’s super important to have positive trans visibility, trans celebrations, trans pride, trans joy. There’s an organization that puts on Trans Pride and has before, so it’s- If you’re in the Seattle area, you can check them out. It’s on the same day that we’re doing a show separately so, you know, go to one and then the other. Um, but yeah. We’re excited to be sponsors this year.
MIKE JOHNSON
Everybody’s like doing all this hand wringing, appropriately so, about all the anti-trans legislation that’s going on in this country right now. If you want to do something about it, get your goddamn checkbook out and give some money to some trans people.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. Yep, absolutely. Absolutely.
MIKE JOHNSON
Well, our website is gayishpodcast.com.
KYLE GETZ
We are on social @gayishpodcast.
MIKE JOHNSON
Our hotline, you can send us text messages or leave us voicemails, especially if it’s your Gayest & Straightest, is 5855-Gayish. That’s 585-542-9474. Standard rates apply. Oh and Momsplaining! Get your Momsplaining questions in.
KYLE GETZ
Ooo, yep. If you want to join our Discord, or our Facebook group, or our Spaces, we have all those links there at gayishpodcast.com/contacts. So you can find all that. And then, if you want to email, us our email is gayishpodcast@gmail.com.
MIKE JOHNSON
And our physical mailing address is Post Office Box 19882 Seattle, Washington 98109.
KYLE GETZ
USA! [both chuckle] Gayest & Straightest?
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah, let’s do our Gayest & Straightest.
KYLE GETZ
Okay, I’ll go.
MIKE JOHNSON
Okay, great.
KYLE GETZ
Um, my gayest is: when you and I went out for drinks, we pretended to be on a date to get someone to stop talking to us.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah, we did!
KYLE GETZ
Um, he did drop a little bit of knowledge on us where he said “There’s no shame in the game if there’s a little Hershey’s kiss.” [chuckles]
MIKE JOHNSON
Mhm. Mhm. Mhm.
KYLE GETZ
Which I wrote- I immediately wrote down because I was like “That’s hilarious.”
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
You know, if you’re havin’ sex with someone and there’s a little Hershey’s kiss…
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
…it’s okay. It happens.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. Well, and- Uh, not our first rodeo with that particular gentleman either. He had hit on Marty.
KYLE GETZ
Yep. [Mike laughs] He was there with your [chuckles] brothers and he didn’t remember that we had already talked to him before, I don’t think.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. It was great.
KYLE GETZ
Um, my straightest is: yesterday watched the movie “Dude, Where’s My Car?”
MIKE JOHNSON
Oh! Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
Do you remember that movie at all?
MIKE JOHNSON
I just remember the “Dude” and “Bro” being written on their backs.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. “Sweet” and “Dude”.
MIKE JOHNSON
“Sweet” and “Dude”. Yeah, there you go.
KYLE GETZ
That movie was about aliens.
MIKE JOHNSON
Oh, great.
KYLE GETZ
The entire time it was, like, aliens were on Earth trying to find something.
MIKE JOHNSON
Excellent.
KYLE GETZ
Like, I just completely forgot. Like, my friend asked me and he was like “Do you remember what that was about?” I was like “Yeah, finding a car,” and he was like “No, it was about aliens.” It was also transphobic, which sucks.
MIKE JOHNSON
Oh.
KYLE GETZ
Um, came out in like 2000 or something.
MIKE JOHNSON
It was a different time, I hope?
KYLE GETZ
I mean, not different enough. It’s kind of like- A lot of things were transphobic around that time and didn’t even- Yeah. Anyway, that’s my straightest.
MIKE JOHNSON
Great. Uh, well, so the gayest thing about me this week… I apologize in advance because technically it’s two weeks in a row of exactly the same thing.
KYLE GETZ
[chuckles] I’ve done that with Kraken.
MIKE JOHNSON
Dakota, the hot trainer…
KYLE GETZ
Oh yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
…this morning, in an even skimpier tank top.
KYLE GETZ
Mmm.
MIKE JOHNSON
I had to train with him.
KYLE GETZ
Oohhh!
MIKE JOHNSON
So it wasn’t just from across the room. It was like- He was, like, touching me [Kyle chuckles] and moving me to do things different. And, like, I could see the- Like, the- His cleavage was kind of poppin’ out at the top of it and he smelled amazing. [Kyle chuckles] Like, whatever body wash or, like, deodorant, like, was- It was- Here- I’m- Oh man. Okay. [Kyle chuckles] Dakota. Dakota is the gayest thing about me this week. [Kyle laughs] But then the straightest thing about me this week was to throw him off the trail, I guess. I don’t know. I started talking to him about hockey. Which, the sum total of my hockey knowledge comes from being at the bar with you when we were on a date.
KYLE GETZ
Oh our date, yep!
MIKE JOHNSON
‘Cause the Kraken- or, you know, the Stanley Cup playoffs and the Seattle Kraken. But uh, yeah. So I was like [in a deep voice] “Do- Do you follow hockey?” [both chuckle]
KYLE GETZ
But now you know that-
MIKE JOHNSON
“Please touch me more.” [both chuckle]
KYLE GETZ
You know about the playoffs. That’s some good hockey knowledge that seems-
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. You know.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. I forgot, in addition to watching “Dude, Where’s My Car?”, we stopped it so my friend could turn it on to the hockey game where the L.A…. I’m gonna say “Hawkeyes”… were playing.
MIKE JOHNSON
Kings?
KYLE GETZ
Yea, that sounds more right. …Were playing against the Edmonton Oilers, and Edmonton won.
MIKE JOHNSON
Oh. They have a big mall there.
KYLE GETZ
That’s cool. That’s gay.
MIKE JOHNSON
Hey, Canada, I see you.
KYLE GETZ
That’s- [laughs] I know what’s up. Oh, hey, Canadian Discord.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. [chuckles] Uh, a listener’s Gayest & Straightest. This time, my favorite kind comes from a voicemail.
KYLE [listener, voicemail]
Hey there, gentlemen. This is Kyle calling. And yes, another Kyle, but I’m older than Kyle and so I came first, and so I think that means I win, right?
KYLE GETZ
[chuckles] Yes, it does.
KYLE [listener, voicemail]
That’s how that works.
KYLE GETZ
Yep.
KYLE [listener, voicemail]
So, I’m calling in with my Gayest & Straightest. Uhh, my straightest is that I fell through a- Well, I fell through a hole in the floor at my dad’s house and scraped up my shin, uh, really bad. And there was no antibiotics or anything to treat it and so I just poured vodka over the open wound to disinfect it. And, uh, my gayest is that when I met the contractor over there to fix the hole in the floor he was asking me if my shin was healing up nicely, and I told him the story of pouring the vodka on my shin, and then I proceeded to tell him that it was the butchest thing I’ve done in a while, which made him tilt his head slightly at why I would say it that way. So, anyways, very much enjoy the show. Appreciate you both, have a great night. Bye.
KYLE GETZ
Thanks, first Kyle. Kyle I. [both chuckle]
MIKE JOHNSON
Thanks, original Kyle.
MIKE JOHNSON
I definitely think that using anything that’s not antibiotic ointment as an antibiotic is, like, that’s straight.
KYLE GETZ
Oh. Yep. Like, they- Archer did that.
MIKE JOHNSON
Just put dirt on it or whatever. [both chuckle]
KYLE GETZ
And also, it was very early on that- I think it was your brother Murph that said to us, like, “Calling stuff ‘Butch’ is gay.”
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. Yeah. Yep.
KYLE GETZ
Like, dudes don’t talk about how butch they are by doing stuff. Like, that- Yeah. So, absolutely. That was a great one.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah, thanks. Send ‘em in, folks. Uhhh, that’s it. We did it!
KYLE GETZ
That’s it!
MIKE JOHNSON
We talked about [chuckles] bestiality.
KYLE GETZ
We talked about bestiality a bunch. I- Yeah. Um, I want to thank… and pray that you continue [both chuckle] after this episode… our Super Gap Bridgers [takes a deep breath]: Andrew Bugbee, Christopher M, John Crawley, Stephen Portch, Joh Stoessel, Harry Shaw, Josh Copeland, Jonathan Montañez, Waddu, Forrest Nail, Patrick Martin, James Barrow, Steve Douglas, Explosive Lasagna, Michael Cubbington, Just Jamie, Kevin Henderson, Tomas B, Timothy Saura, DustySands, AE Coleman, Chris Khachatourians, and Jerome York.
MIKE JOHNSON
Good work, Kyle! You did it.
KYLE GETZ
Thank you.
MIKE JOHNSON
You made it all the way through in one breath.
KYLE GETZ
Mhm!
MIKE JOHNSON
And not just because of editing.
KYLE GETZ
Mhm. Alright-
MIKE JOHNSON
That’s it!
KYLE GETZ
But that made it sound like I didn’t make it through, because-
MIKE JOHNSON
[laughs] Ha ha!
KYLE GETZ
No, I didn’t- I really did it! Okay, here I go again.
MIKE JOHNSON
No! God! No no no! That’s it. This has been Gayish. From the Chris Khachatourians studios, I’m Mike Johnson.
KYLE GETZ
I’m Kyle Getz. Until next week, be butch, be fabulous, be ewe!
MIKE JOHNSON
That’s spelled e-w-e… in this episode only. [laughs]
KYLE GETZ
[chuckles] Quit. I’m out. I’m done.
[Outro music plays, instrumental]
KYLE GETZ
We talked about how we feel about bestiality as a whole. I dislike-
MIKE JOHNSON
Just hole? [both chuckle]
KYLE GETZ
Jesus. I dislike people’s connection of it to gay shit.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
I think if- Let’s pretend there’s a world in which I’m just missing out on some part of it and, in the future, we’re like “Oh, there’s some- Like, everyone was just looking down on this thing. There should be some version of this that’s acceptable to society. We just didn’t know all that stuff.” You gotta make a case for that on your own. You have to make a separate case for bestiality if that’s what you think should be legal or okay. Like, you gotta push for that as an independent thing.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
I really dislike trying to grab on to gay rights and that movement as why you think it should be your- it should make the same progress as gay stuff?
MIKE JOHNSON
Absolutely.
KYLE GETZ
I think you need to work hard to find- get people to research this, find the science that says it. You need to make a independent separate case, and I think it’s- because I think it often harms the progress that we make by people trying to attach themselves to it. I think a lot of people see a lot of good progress in gay shit and want to attach to it and there’s- Some of that is good. There’s racism within the gay community, we should be connecting those and talking about those two things. I don’t need bestiality being attached to it, You need to go make your own case for this issue.
MIKE JOHNSON
…A lot of TERFs say that about trans stuff.
KYLE GETZ
Mm. That just, like- But there is a history that connects, um, trans and gay issues together. They are intertwined through history, through people’s judgment and associations with gender, gender norms, gender stereotypes, and gay shit. Like, those- Like, I can look back and find why they’re connected through history, and time, and judgment. And I- Like, you don’t- We don’t see the, like, “Originally the gay and bestiality movements were connected.” Like, that’s just not the case.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
That’s not true, so-
MIKE JOHNSON
I didn’t say they were right.
KYLE GETZ
No, no, I know. [Mike laughs] I know. It’s a fair argument and I had a real smart response.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yep.
KYLE GETZ
[chuckles] But do you agree? Do you, like-
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah, absolutely
KYLE GETZ
Okay. Okay. Alright.
MIKE JOHNSON
Totally.
KYLE GETZ
Okay. That’s all.
[Transcriptionist: C Dixon, CMDixonWork@gmail.com]