Let’s pass judgements on people based on their sign! If that’s not the cornerstone of astrology, what is? Mike and Kyle talk about why (and if) astrology is so queer.
In this episode: News- 2:01 || Main Topic (Astrology)- 16:06 || Gayest & Straightest- 1:07:27
On the weekly bonus Patreon segment, Mike and Kyle delve into their partnership, how it started, and how they feel about it. Bonus audio, video, and lots of other perks available on Patreon at www.patreon.com/gayishpodcast.
If you missed our live appearance on the Two Bad Tourists’ show, you can listen to the episode on their podcast feed, available at https://linktr.ee/queertravelchat.
FULL TRANSCRIPT
INTRO MUSIC [MIKE JOHNSON SINGING]
When you know that you are queer but your favorite drink is beer, that’s Gayish. You can bottom without stopping but you can’t stand going shopping, that’s Gayish. Oh, Gayish. You’re probably Gayish. Oh life’s just too short for narrow stereotypes. Oh, it’s Gayish. We’re all so Gayish. It’s Gayish with Mike and Kyle.
MIKE JOHNSON
Hello everyone in the podcast universe, this is Gayish.
KYLE GETZ
The podcast that puts the dick in…
MIKE JOHNSON
[laughs] Assuming my Viagra’s working that day. I’m Mike Johnson!
KYLE GETZ
[laughs] Assuming my butthole’s working that day. I’m Kyle Getz!
MIKE JOHNSON
We’re here to bridge the gap between sexuality and actuality. And today…
KYLE GETZ
Ooh, today…
MIKE JOHNSON
Puttin’ the “ass” in as-trology. Here we go.
KYLE GETZ
Puttin’ the… “ol”… in ology? I dunno.
MIKE JOHNSON
Well, and hopefully people don’t put the “troll” in as-trol-ogy because we fuck shit up.
KYLE GETZ
But we’ll put the “yyyyy” in astrolog-y. [Mike laughs] It’s- We’re gonna- This is a very queer topic that y’all voted on – or, Gap Bridgers voted on – and I’m very excited to talk about it. I’m very excited to break this down.
MIKE JOHNSON
Great. Excellent.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
Excellent. But first!
KYLE GETZ
But first!
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. You have a correction.
KYLE GETZ
Oh! On our episode about partners we talked about various uses, why we like it and don’t like it, why – you know – challenges, pros, cons, servings and helpings of partners. And a very obvious thing we didn’t even mention is that nonbinary people may use the term partner, because, you know, husband/wife doesn’t work.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
So that was a thing we missed, so thanks for sending that in, y’all.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah, I guess “partner” works better than “personfriend”. Like, there’s “boyfriend”, and “girlfriend”, and like “personfriend”.
KYLE GETZ
You’re the only person I’ve ever heard say that phrase. Yes.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. I love when Lizzo did her Tiny Desk Concert for NPR and she was talking about fuckboys, and was like, “Fuck him, fuck her, fuck they.” [both laugh]
KYLE GETZ
So inclusive! Yeah, fuck binary people too, if we’re gonna go ahead and- [both laugh] Um, yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
Okay. Now, the news.
[News segment intro plays, sung by MIKE JOHNSON]
Shut your mouth hole it’s time for your ear holes, news, news, news.
MIKE JOHNSON
News the first: NBA Brooklyn Nets player Cam Thomas…
KYLE GETZ
Boy. Okay, Kyle, stay in it, listen, pay attention. Okay.
MIKE JOHNSON
…is- last Thursday night got fined $40,000 by the National Basketball Association for saying “No homo.”
KYLE GETZ
Whaaat?
MIKE JOHNSON
[laughs] Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
Shhhhhwow, that’s the most expensive “no homo” that’s ever existed probably, right?
MIKE JOHNSON
[laughs] Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
What was the- Do you know the context?
MIKE JOHNSON
Thomas, and Spencer Dinwiddie – which, that’s a made up name – were just acquired by the Nets in a trade with the Dallas Mavericks. They were being interviewed by Jared Greenberg of TNT after the game at the Barclays Center in Brooklyn. This is all according to ESPN, which, no, I did not read. But, after the trade, Dinwiddie had said “the Nets may not have gotten the best players, they got the best-looking.” He added, quote, “and the Nets needed some help in that department.” So then the interviewer asked Thomas about that remark, and he said, quote, “We already had good-looking guys, no homo.”
KYLE GETZ
Mhm. God, I fuckin’- I- Hey, everyone, don’t say “No homo,” but it’s so fucking funny to me. [Mike laughs] Like, I don’t- Just- It’s always like, “Hey, there are hot dudes. No- Not a faggot!”
MIKE JOHNSON
[laughs] Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
“I know I commented on another man’s physical appearance, but hey, not gay! Just have to remind you of that fact!” It’s- It always just does nothing but reinforce that the idea of- that what they said is a little gay.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yep.
KYLE GETZ
Like, I- That would have been fine if a adult- a straight adult man said another straight adult man is attractive, like, but you’re allowed to do that.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
And that’s fine.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
People find people attractive and they’re not sexually going to suck their dick.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah, exactly. Yep, exactly right. Exactly right. He quickly tweeted an apology saying, quote, “I want to apologize for the insensitive word I used in the post-game interview. I was excited about the win and was being playful. I definitely didn’t intend to offend anyone, but realize that I probably did. My apologies again. Much love”.
KYLE GETZ
Mm. No homo.
MIKE JOHNSON
No homo. [both laugh]
KYLE GETZ
Um, I- Sometimes the- That was a perfectly decent apology. He was direct about it, he said sorry. Um, usually it includes some kind of, like, “What I’m gonna do differently…” or something, but that’s fine. But I always think that, sometimes, it’s revealing. Like, “I was just intending to be playful,” that is supposed to- He was including that as like a “Hey, just like, this was my intent,” and I think that’s part of the problem is “My intent was, I thought this was a playful thing that I was just joking around about,” and that’s part of the problem is not realizing the gravity, and so many things that are just casual homophobia feel playful to people.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yep. Yep. Sure. I’m with you.
KYLE GETZ
Your voice says that you’re not totally with me, but that’s okay.
MIKE JOHNSON
No. No, no, no. I absolutely am. I think that there’s also- I wish that we didn’t have to speak in such binary terms when it came to language, because I firmly believe that intent matters.
KYLE GETZ
Mhm.
MIKE JOHNSON
And while that intent, playing around – I agree with your criticism of it – it is not as bad as being overtly and intentionally offensively homophobic, which is a thing that straight guys do all the time. It feels like that’s a worse offense, and it’s okay to say so, you know?
KYLE GETZ
It’s interesting, because in your criticism of the binary nature you were binary in which one is worse. I think each have different challenges. The challenge- Yeah, of course over homophobia is bad. I think a different challenge when it comes to “Oh, I was just being playful. Oh, it was-” like, casual homophobia, is the fact that people don’t realize it. That – the casualness of it, the fact that they’re not aware that their intent- their intent isn’t bad, and it just slips out – that’s a different challenge that we need to address, that people need to realize, and understand, and wake up to. Those things do have impact, and you need to know that. And it’s- it’s less obvious, it’s less in your face. It’s less “We can easily write this off as horrible,” you know? And I think that- So that’s just a different challenge that comes along with it.
MIKE JOHNSON
I appreciate that pushback. Uh, lots of other NBA players-
KYLE GETZ
Ah. Oh shit.
MIKE JOHNSON
-have been fined over the years for using homophobic language, including the late Kobe Bryant, which, yeah, people love him but apparently he was fined once for saying gay shit.
KYLE GETZ
Huh. $40,000 though? Even I’m like “Is that-“ I guess high fines for people that make high income? I like that.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. Uh, news the second.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
Did you watch the Grammys?
KYLE GETZ
No, I just looked at Instagram posts about it later.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. Well, Sam Smith and Kim Petras made history at the 2023 Grammys with their win for Best Pop Duo/Group Performance, but, of course, a lot of conservative viewers were real mad about their performance!
KYLE GETZ
Mhm. Mhm. Mhm.
MIKE JOHNSON
So there was- It was a, quote, “Horror movie-inspired performance,” but Sam Smith wore a red shiny top hat with devil horns coming out of it, and then Petras was in a cage and a bunch of dominatrixes- Dominatrices? Dominatrixes.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. I like “dominatrices”.
MIKE JOHNSON
Dominatrices-
KYLE GETZ
I like that.
MIKE JOHNSON
-in red latex were dancin’ around. Of course, then, you know, conservative Christian folks said, you know, “It’s demonic,” and “They’re literally worshipping the devil on the screen,” and, you know, just- I just- Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
“I love free speech unless it’s offensive to me.”
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. Yeah. Exactly right. Someone on Twitter said, quote, “Satanic as you want to be. Sam Smith at the Grammies. Sponsored probably by the devil himself, Pfizer?” because, on lots of distribution channels, that performance was immediately followed up by a Pfizer commercial, [Kyle laughs] and of course like all of the QAnon, like, ridiculous folks, were like “There’s got to be a connection.” They’re always looking for a fucking connection.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
Like- Like some secret, like- Just- Ugh, God. Everybody, think about your conspiracy theories that you have, and just think about the sheer number of people that would have to be complicit to keep it a secret and actually then still pull it off, because if that number of people is more than about four, you are wrong.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. Yeah, abso- [Mike laughs] Yeah. No one’s that good at keeping a secret when it- Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. Anyway- And then, apparently, similar things. There’s pushback from their performance at The BRIT Awards, which just happened here a couple of nights ago. He’s wearing like a sleeveless leather harness.
KYLE GETZ
“They’re” wearing? Is it Sam Smith?
MIKE JOHNSON
Yep. Yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep. You’re right. And, uh-
KYLE GETZ
I didn’t see that look!
MIKE JOHNSON
Latex vest, bondage straps, chains, and leather trousers. And Kim Petras slid out from underneath a car wearing black overalls and psychedelic black eye makeup.
KYLE GETZ
I wonder what people’s response was when Rihanna did the song SNM. I think people are more angry when queer people do it than when straight people do the same thing. I wonder- Rihanna got- had to have some performances where she did something S&M-y.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
And I wonder what- I don’t remember enough to remember if there’s outrage against that song, against-
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah, I’m sure there was-
KYLE GETZ
I’m sure that there was. At this scale?
MIKE JOHNSON
-but also, like, less so, because she’s cis het, right?
KYLE GETZ
Yeah, yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
So, like- Umm, and then last – I love this one – the Church of Satan [chuckles] released a statement saying that that Unholy performance was “meh.” [both laugh]
KYLE GETZ
Damn. Shade from the demonic temple of demons!
MIKE JOHNSON
Said uh, said David Harris, a magister of the Church of Satan, said he thought Smith and Petras’s performance was, quote, “alright,” and “nothing particularly special.” [both laugh] All of that was, like, tongue in cheek, but saying like “That’s not- That’s not devil worship, because I do that and that’s not what we do.”
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. [both chuckle]
MIKE JOHNSON
Uh, news the last!
KYLE GETZ
Great.
MIKE JOHNSON
This video games thing, Kyle.
KYLE GETZ
What video game thing?
MIKE JOHNSON
Uh, Hogwarts Legacy.
KYLE GETZ
Ohhhhhhh.
MIKE JOHNSON
One of the most anticipated video game releases of all time, is, of course, now a hotbed of controversy because of the well-documented TERF, transphobic creator JK Rowling.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
My whole thing is- Well, okay. So, first of all, it’s coming out – or, came out – last week, and it is on PlayStation 5, PC, Xbox, all the places. And, I mean, yeah, it’s in the Harry Potter universe, and there’s a whole bunch of, you know, people who are super attached to that, and a lot of straight people that have no idea that what they’re- what they’re, you know, participating in, has any sort of controversy behind it because, you know, trans issues aren’t nearly as widespread as us on our show, Kyle.
KYLE GETZ
Mhm, mhm, mhm.
MIKE JOHNSON
Anyway. Yeah, So… So so so so, I think, um… I’m nervous now. I’m being- I’m being- I’m being careful, because, like, there are people in my life – gay people, queer people in my life – who are like, “I’m gonna buy it and play it,” and that’s okay, and- [said quietly] I don’t think it’s okay. But I did suggest on our Discord server, maybe, just like, there’s like, carbon offsets? Like, you can pay more for a plane ticket as a carbon offset, right? Like, what if you did a TERF offset, and like, it’s okay to buy and play that game, but then also give $20 to a trans charity?
KYLE GETZ
Ooh, I love that.
MIKE JOHNSON
Like-
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Match- Match whatever you spent on it, or double it, or something, to- I love that. That’s a good idea.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
I- I mean, to me, it’s, like, so well-documented. It’s in the realm of Chick-fil-A kind of, now. Like, and-
MIKE JOHNSON
Can- I want to push back on that.
KYLE GETZ
Oh, sure sure sure!
MIKE JOHNSON
Chick-fil-A is literally giving liquid cash money to documented organizations who are pro-conversion therapy and are killing children.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah, that’s true.
MIKE JOHNSON
JK Rowling is just a cunt.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah- [laughs] Yeah, you’re right. It is a little bit more indirect when it comes to the Harry Potter universe- Well, she makes- Surely she makes money off of that, and that helps fuel her continued- Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, that’s good call. And- Yeah, I just- I don’t think people should buy it. I don’t think people should continue- The more you continue to support those things, the franchise continues, she stays relevant, she gets to spout her TERF nonsense. So I think, especially when you’re- And also, like, listening to the people that it impacts: so many trans people I see on like, Twitter and stuff, are very vocal like, “No, don’t buy this. You’re activ- Like, this is actively hurting our community,” and I think people are taking it far too lightly.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yep. Well, and there’s also, now, like a new controversy. That’s a strong word.
KYLE GETZ
Ohh.
MIKE JOHNSON
But, uh, apparently they’ve added the ability for you to play a trans character when you do character creation in the game, and there’s at least one major trans character in the story. Unfortunately, her name is Sirona, and uh, people are making fun of that. But a lot of people are saying, you know, “Too little too late,” and “That’s just pandering,” and like, “Throwing the queer community a couple of bones does not make up for JK Rowling and her fuckin’ horseshit.” So.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
I also hear, fairly often, people who are being apologists for the whole thing, and they don’t realize it maybe. “But hundreds of people worked on that game, and if you don’t buy it then you’re hurting their careers,” or “you’re spitting in the face of all of their hard work,” and I reject that. I reject that outright as a justification. Like, they made their money, they work there, they’ve been paid already. Like, they’re fine. Buying or not buying this game is gonna affect the publisher’s bottom line, not all of those people that you’re claiming to support by buying this game.
KYLE GETZ
Right. Right. Yeah, I agree with you for sure. I think the- The cases where I give exception is, for queer people dealing with depression, there are so few- sometimes you’re in a place where so few things bring any kind of happiness or joy. And it’s not just me. You know, queer people are more affected by things like depression. If you find joy, if you’re struggling, or you find so much joy in this that this is a thing that helps ya keep on holding on, because you love the Harry Potter universe and you love playing this game, if this brings a queer person that much- if it’s that important and personal to you, and you need it, that to me is the exception. Like, you care about yourself first. Care about your own happiness, surviving things you’re going through, whatever. That’s your number one, and I would rather have you do that than make a political stance that harms you personally.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
That, to me, is the one big asterisk on any kind of like ban, or political, or boycott, or thing.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. Yeah. I’m with you. Okay. Yeah. That’s it, that’s the news.
KYLE GETZ
Well, speaking of other people – I’m never gonna boycott – it’s our following Patreon members.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yay!
KYLE GETZ
Thank you to Randall Da…meron? Damerin? Dimerin… Dameron. “Dameron” sounds like a medication I have to ask the grocery store person to come get, because it’s behind a locked case.
MIKE JOHNSON
“Dominatrices”? [both laugh]
KYLE GETZ
“I would like that dominatrice, please.” Um, and Christopher Shinn. There are two n.
MIKE JOHNSON
Shi-n-n?
KYLE GETZ
Shi-n-n. Uhh, thank you so much! If you want bonus episodes, content, to join Patreon happy hours, to support us, you can do that at patreon.com/gayishpodcast. This episode was voted on by our Gap Bridgers, our highest tier, and the second episode – the bonus episode for this month – is gonna be chocolate, which, overwhelmingly that was the second choice for people. So, if you want to hear us talk about chocolate, that’s the bonus episode this month.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah! Also, we’re so close to having, like, enough money to do a tour.
KYLE GETZ
Yeahhh.
MIKE JOHNSON
Please join.
KYLE GETZ
Beep beep beep, do it. Do you wanna talk about astrology?!
MIKE JOHNSON
[singing] Let’s talk about astrology.
KYLE GETZ
[singing] Talk and call it astrology.
MIKE JOHNSON
First-
KYLE GETZ
That’s a deep Britney Spears cut.
MIKE JOHNSON
Okay.
KYLE GETZ
Okay.
MIKE JOHNSON
I’m gonna talk about the history of astrology, but first, I just want to know: how do you feel about astrology, Kyle?
KYLE GETZ
Boy, this is gonna be the- This is the challenge of this epi- Right? This is the whole challenge of us doing this episode.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
Look, it’s not real and you’re stupid, but I love you! [both laughs] That’s gonna be- That’s the premise. In this- In this paper, I will explain to you why you’re both stupid and I care about you. It’s- You know, it’s- It’s very queer. You think of- Particularly, you think of lesbians when you think of astrology, but also it’s a very queer thing. I have some gayta I’ll get to later, to tell you how queer, but-
MIKE JOHNSON
Okay.
KYLE GETZ
It’s just- To me, it actual- it fall- It’s very interesting because it – to me – it falls under the category of religion, a thing people have invented to help themselves. I- We have not yet weaponized astrology against, you know, entire swathes of human beings, that I know of, so like, you know, obviously not the same, but it just- but at least, in theory, that’s the category this goes under, is religion.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
So that’s why I’m like- I dunno. But I’ve- But it’s weird because my more liberal friends – my less religious friends – are also the ones that care about this shit, and crystals and – you know – witchy stuff. So it’s just a weird- It’s- To me, it’s like a weird, interesting dynamic that I don’t understand why different groups of people are in a different thing.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yep. I’m with you.
KYLE GETZ
So that’s where I’m at, what about you?
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So- I mean- I think- So, me being me, I want to make sure that, when we’re talking about astrology, that we’re crystal clear about what we’re talking about and, by extension, what we’re not talking about.
KYLE GETZ
Okay.
MIKE JOHNSON
Like, you mentioned a lot of like, crystal stuff, and like spells and – you know – witchy things. That is not astrology, at least as much as-
KYLE GETZ
Yes. Yes, and it’s- But it’s the same people that like astrology, also were into some of these other things.
MIKE JOHNSON
Right. It’s in this cluster of shit that tends to go together, right? Also like, yoga, for some- [Kyle laughs] like, is in that zone. But uh- But yeah, Astrology specifically comes from the Latin word “astrologia”, which is from the Greek “asteron”, which means “star”, and “logia”, meaning “study of” or “writing about”. So it’s the study of the stars.
KYLE GETZ
“Logia” is a cool name. That should be like a cool-
MIKE JOHNSON
Logia?
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
logia.com?
KYLE GETZ
Oh. Oh.
MIKE JOHNSON
logia.org?
KYLE GETZ
“Find your next astrology match.”
MIKE JOHNSON
Okay, so it’s the study of the movement of the stars, and planets move differently than stars, so that’s how the planets get involved in astrology. And it’s important to note that every single human culture in the history of humanity has had some kind of fascination, or attention, or paid like credence to, what’s happening in their observations of the stars, and a lot of that is especially due to agriculture, but even pre agricultural societies did. But a lot of it is related to, like, you can tell what time of year it is by looking up and seeing the stars and utilizing the calendar.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. Fun fact: you can also tell what time of day it is, to see if you see stars or not!
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah, is it night?
KYLE GETZ
Is it nighttime?
MIKE JOHNSON
Maybe.
KYLE GETZ
You- You kind of skipped over- You’re defining it – maybe still – so you can get back to this, but you kind of skipped over your opinions of it.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. Here’s where I’m going with this.
KYLE GETZ
Okay.
MIKE JOHNSON
First, I’m fascinated by it. I love me some systems, I love me some like arcane, like it has to be done properly- Like, my engineering brain is really attracted to a lot of this stuff, because there is consistent physical truth that can be looked at on an astrological chart, right? Like, so much of it really is- It’s not just like “I came up with a bunch of random shit.” The random shit is the meaning that’s ascribed to it, but it really does carefully track like, where shit is in the sky, and where it’s going, and how it gets there, and it’s predictive. We know, because of all of this stuff, like you’ll be able to see Venus in the south on November 8th, or whatever. Like, that’s- That’s real and true.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. Mercury really does go into retrograde.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah, exactly. It does. It doesn’t make your laptop stop working, [Kyle laughs] but it like- And also, I think, some of it is real in as much as different things happen at different times of the year, and there is an impact, right? Like, kids that are born in whatever month are measurably better at hockey, right? Like, there are- there are some subtle, not slam dunks, but there are some things that are impacted by the time of year that you are born, or things like when you should plant your crops, and when you should harvest them, and when you should burn it all down or whatever.
KYLE GETZ
But isn’t this all correlation? This is not causation, so…
MIKE JOHNSON
I agree. I absolutely agree. Well, no, it is causation for like the hockey thing, because they just get- it’s about how old they are when they start in the in the league.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
Had they been born at a- Like, the cause of that difference in ability is the month you were born in.
KYLE GETZ
Right. Not the stars though. That’s the- Right.
MIKE JOHNSON
Right, right. Sure. Sure sure sure. But then, lastly, I also think, even if I 100% think that the whole thing is bullshit – and I’m about 95% the whole thing is bullshit [Kyle laughs] – we know from psychology that the placebo effect works, even if you know it’s a placebo. I can say “These pills that I’m giving you are made out of sugar, there’s no medicine in them whatsoever, but they will make your headache feel better.” That can work. So I think that if people are deriving comfort, if people are deriving a deeper understanding of themselves, if they’re developing empathy for their fellow humans based on this absolute cacophony of horseshit, great.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
Like, I don’t want to shit on it. Like- I- There is likely some justifiable value to it.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. I’ve gotten better at that piece of, in spite of everything that I said and believe, I’m like- Rather than making fun of, shitting on- On the podcast I’m gonna shit on you because like, I get to talk about my feelings and opinions, but when I’m actually talking to another person, my friends that care about this, I think I’ve gotten better, over time, instead of scoffing or like being like “Oh, that dumb thing?” or making jokes about it, I’m more open to like ”I want to hear your perspective, and what it means to you, and what you care about, and I will go with you and support you.” Just like, you know, everyone should be able to do anything that- I think what it comes down to is like, you get to do things that don’t hurt other people, that are your- Like, that- It actually, in that way, does tie into gay shit. It’s like, you get- If you love astrology, you do that, that hurts no one, that’s your own thing, your passion, you believe it, go for it.
MIKE JOHNSON
Whatever a person does with the stars in the privacy of their own bedroom, [both laughing] between consenting constellations, is- we have to be on board with that.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. So, some form of astrology has been around since at least the 2nd millennium BCE.
KYLE GETZ
What happened in the first millennium?
MIKE JOHNSON
Right? Well, that came after.
KYLE GETZ
Oh, fuck. [Mike laughs] What happened 3rd millennium?
MIKE JOHNSON
I love it. But also it’s important to note that, until quite recently, it was considered science. Right? Like, we have to go all the way up to like the 17th century, 18th century, before people start realizing that uh, no, this is actually bullshit.
KYLE GETZ
Oh, no.
MIKE JOHNSON
So, in a way, being skeptical of the whole thing just means that we’re modern. Like-
KYLE GETZ
Which is weird, because the new age thing feels like to believe in it. Like, so- It’s weird how things can change and be the opposite and different. Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yep. So academic and theoretical study of astrology per se ended in roughly the 19th century.
KYLE GETZ
“Per se” is such an academic diss. I love that. That was so mean, but casually. [both laugh]
MIKE JOHNSON
But the 1960s apparently- I’m gonna blame acid. Uh, in the 1960s it started really coming back and has basically been here to stay since then. All of this to say: I’m now gonna surprise you with a quiz, a pop quiz, Kyle.
KYLE GETZ
Fuck, do I have to have listened?
MIKE JOHNSON
N- Yep.
KYLE GETZ
Aw, man.
MIKE JOHNSON
No. No, no, no, you don’t have to have listened.
KYLE GETZ
Okay, phew.
MIKE JOHNSON
Uh, I’m going to- What I want you to do is do the thing where you just, like, the first thing that comes to your mind is what I want you to yell out.
KYLE GETZ
Okay.
MIKE JOHNSON
Okay? I’m gonna say a sign, you tell me what it is.
KYLE GETZ
Bros! Wait, are we do- are we playing it? [both laugh]
MIKE JOHNSON
Aries.
KYLE GETZ
Me!
MIKE JOHNSON
Yes.
KYLE GETZ
I’m that! I’m that! That’s me.
MIKE JOHNSON
It’s Aries the Kyle. Okay, Taurus.
KYLE GETZ
Um, uh, uh, mean.
MIKE JOHNSON
‘Kay.
KYLE GETZ
I’m doing this to describe what they- what these people are like.
MIKE JOHNSON
I like that better, actually.
KYLE GETZ
Oh, okay. [laughs]
MIKE JOHNSON
I was- I was more wanting you say “Aries the ram,” “Taurus the bull.”
KYLE GETZ
Oh, I was supposed to guess the actual thing. [Mike laughing] Fuck. They’re mean, so they’re- they’re, uh- they’re angry turtles.
MIKE JOHNSON
Great! Great. Great. Gemini.
KYLE GETZ
Uhh, that’s a pop band, and so they’re fun and upbeat.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yep. Geminis twin from Saturday Night Live. It’s-
KYLE GETZ
No, there’s like the Gemini- or is that like an anime? It doesn’t matter.
MIKE JOHNSON
Okay, Cancer!
KYLE GETZ
Um…
MIKE JOHNSON
[laughs loudly] Here comes a cancer joke, everybody!
KYLE GETZ
No, no, I- Like, you just said to say the first thing that came into my mind, and I’m not gonna do that with it. I’m gonna take a hard pass on this one. I think my dad’s a cancer. Um, my dad’s um, pretty cool.
MIKE JOHNSON
Great.
KYLE GETZ
So the- Pretty cool, as represented by my dad’s face. That’s the mascot of Cancer.
MIKE JOHNSON
Cancer the crab. Uh, Leo!
KYLE GETZ
Um, that’s gotta be a hot dude. That’s gotta be the hot dude from Charmed. He’s the thing that represents them, [Mike laughs] and so I’m gonna say magical.
MIKE JOHNSON
Great. Leo the lion. Uh, Virgo!
KYLE GETZ
Uh, it’s represented by the chicken, and they’re just- they’re just confused.
MIKE JOHNSON
Virgo the virgin, a virgin maiden, specifically.
KYLE GETZ
Oh, I was gonna say virgin, then I was like, “That’s stupid. That’s a dumb word association that I just-” Okay.
MIKE JOHNSON
Uh, Libra!
KYLE GETZ
Um, they’re free because they’re Libra. They’re free and they’re represented by the freest animal I can think of… um, butterflies.
MIKE JOHNSON
Great. The scales. They are a set of scales. Uh, Scorpio!
KYLE GETZ
Um, scorpion!
MIKE JOHNSON
Got one right. Okay, uh-
KYLE GETZ
Fuck yeah! No, and that- And like, what you think of as scorpions: they’re sweet.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. We’re water signs, which is weird. Uh, Sagittarius!
KYLE GETZ
Uhh, Sagittarius? More like Sagi-dumbass. Um, they’re represented by a pile of poop.
MIKE JOHNSON
Great. [both laugh] A centaur or archer. It says either- Shooting a bow and arrow. It’s either a centaur or a human shooting a bow and arrow.
KYLE GETZ
I guess we never see the upper half of someone. You never- Like, all those paintings of like the upper halves, you don’t know if they’re a centaur down below.
MIKE JOHNSON
You don’t know what kind of horse deck is happening below [both laugh] the frame. Uh, Capricorn!
KYLE GETZ
Uhh, Capricorn, they’re represented by a sugar cube and they’re, um- they are forgetful.
MIKE JOHNSON
[chuckling] Mountain goats.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. Mountain goats I bet like sugar cubes!
MIKE JOHNSON
Uh, or sea goats? The Babylonians thought that it was a goat fish. Uh, Aquarius!
KYLE GETZ
Um, aquamarine. They’re represented by the band Aqua and they are blue. No, that’s Eiffel 65.
MIKE JOHNSON
You know.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
It’s fine.
KYLE GETZ
Okay.
MIKE JOHNSON
Barbie World?
KYLE GETZ
Uh, [singing] I’m a Barbie girl. That’s-
MIKE JOHNSON
Uh, Pisces!
KYLE GETZ
Um, Pisces, they’re, interestingly, represented by a different, better chicken.
MIKE JOHNSON
[laughs] Excellent. Although, also edible, so maybe I’ll give you partial credit for that one. You got 1.3 out of 12 correct.
KYLE GETZ
You know, that’s about on par as what I would think I would do. [Mike laughs] And I passed some judgment on people, which is what astrology is all about!
MIKE JOHNSON
That’s absolutely true. 100%. So, I mean, that’s all of the signs and what they are, but that goes back to at least Babylonian times. The same constellations that are in the sky were associated with the same times of year and had roughly the same meaning. Some exceptions: Aries in Babylonian times wasn’t the ram, but was like a farm worker.
KYLE GETZ
Mm. Since Aries is me, I don’t care about either- Well, “ram my ass,” that’s fun. Okay, I like the current one better then.
MIKE JOHNSON
Cancer the crab was actually- it was a crayfish, which, close enough. I see why that morphed over time. Like, they’re basically the same thing. And uh, let’s see… Sagittarius was a soldier, not an archer or a centaur. I already mentioned Capricorn was a goat fish in Babylonian times. Aquarius was a pitcher.
KYLE GETZ
P- Pitcher?
MIKE JOHNSON
“Pitcher”, like a pitcher of water.
KYLE GETZ
Huh. That’s boring. [chuckles]
MIKE JOHNSON
But yeah, most of them- If I didn’t mention it, it’s been the same since Babylonian times, and I just think that’s interesting. That doesn’t necessarily lend any credence to the fuckitude, but, um-
KYLE GETZ
I mean, this is one of those things where just because it has existed a long time – we talked about this on Traditions – like-
MIKE JOHNSON
Doesn’t mean it’s good. [chuckles]
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. Doesn’t mean it’s good, doesn’t mean it’s right, doesn’t mean there’s more value than in new things. That’s one of these fallacies that we think of, like, you know. Yeah. Just because it’s old doesn’t mean it’s good.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yep. Absolutely.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
Anyway-
KYLE GETZ
Sorry, Joe Biden.
MIKE JOHNSON
-that’s my history ish of astrology. You want to talk about lesbians?
KYLE GETZ
I- Well, a little bit. Why don’t we- I mean, we mentioned it, I’m an Aries. I wrote down… you’re Scorpio?
MIKE JOHNSON
Scorpio, yeah.
KYLE GETZ
Okay. Do you- Eh, maybe we’ll talk our-
MIKE JOHNSON
Gayish – the show, Gayish – is also an Aries.
KYLE GETZ
Oh my god, that’s right, because it’s right around my birthday that we started it!
MIKE JOHNSON
Yep.
KYLE GETZ
Um, do you- We’re gonna talk a little bit more about our signs like later in the episode, and more on Patreon too we’re gonna actually, like, read some of the signs. So okay, do you- But do you relate to it? I have had-
MIKE JOHNSON
No, Scorpios are supposed to be horny freaks, and I, like, I wish I had more Scorpio energy in my life.
KYLE GETZ
Mm. Yeah. [chuckles] You want a little Scorpio in you?
MIKE JOHNSON
Yes! But I’m like a triple Scorpio, or double Scorpio, or some shit. Like, I might have to look that part up, I might be lying to you, but-
KYLE GETZ
I did my- I’m an Aries. Did you look up your rising or your moon sign?
MIKE JOHNSON
No, I can do that while we’re sitting here, because you’re gonna talk about-
KYLE GETZ
Oh, yeah. No, you don’t- No, this is my part now. Uh, my rising sign is Leo, my moon sign is Aries. That probably means something that my moon sign is the same as my zodiac sign, but I never relate to- Whenever I do read like an Aries horoscope, it’s- Aries, descriptions of them are always like, “They’re assertive and demanding, and don’t get in their way or they’ll go off on you!” like all this stuff that I’m like, “I don’t connect with this.”
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. Yeah. And I’m sure- Okay, this is also, actually- It has a name, I’m sure it has a name. There’s a psychological phenomenon of doubling and tripling down on shit, and astrology is really good at it. Just, the more complicated, and complex, and arcane the system is, the easier it is to say “Oh, that’s just ‘cause you don’t understand it well enough.”
KYLE GETZ
Mmm. Mhm. Mhm.
MIKE JOHNSON
Right? Like, it’s not that all of our typifications of Aries are wrong, it’s that “you need to look deeper into the chart to uncover this.” The presumption is that it’s right, you just need to figure out why you’re wrong.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Which is easier to say to someone like me who comes in not knowing much, then people that are like really into it would be like “Oh, you just don’t understand what Aries really means,” or “There’s a part of you that-” Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. Sun sign, Scorpio. Moon sign, I don’t know what that is. Moon in Taurus.
KYLE GETZ
Rising? That’s the other one.
MIKE JOHNSON
I don’t even know what that- Is it on here. Oh, Venus! Scorpio! Scorpio rising.
KYLE GETZ
People at home that care about astrology, there you go. You can analyze us.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
Oh wait, do you rela- No, okay, we both don’t really relate to our types.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. A lot of like Scorpio stuff, I think- There’s always the horny thing. Like, everybody’s like “Oh, Scorpios, they’re hot in bed.” I’m like, “Oh, girl.” Like, you- Mm-mm.
KYLE GETZ
I mean, if that gets you laid, maybe use it? Like embracing the daddy thing, maybe you need to embrace your Scorpio, Mike.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah, Scorpio daddy!
KYLE GETZ
Scorpio daddy!
MIKE JOHNSON
T-shirt idea! [both laugh]
MIKE JOHNSON
Umm, yeah, what’s- I almost just typed in “symptoms of Scorpio”. [both laugh]
KYLE GETZ
“If your dick is erect for more than four hours, you might be a Scorpio. Talk to your doctor if Scorpio medication’s right for you.”
MIKE JOHNSON
Uh, “Scorpios are strong, enigmatic, independent characters who crackle with an intensity and charisma that makes them un-ignorable. For all of that power though, they often remain un-knowable to others, because they guard themselves and their private lives fiercely.” [laughs] He said, on the podcast-
KYLE GETZ
This podcast has proven- [laughs] Yeah, the podcast about him, where he’s exposed most everything.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
Okay, I’m gonna- Let’s get into the gayta.
MIKE JOHNSON
Gayta, yeah!
KYLE GETZ
We’re gonna start broad. Pew Research-
MIKE JOHNSON
Great. Pew, pew pew.
KYLE GETZ
Love it. Love it. Keep doing that every time, it’s fun. [Mike laughs] Um, In 2009, 25% of adults said they believe in astrology.
MIKE JOHNSON
Okay.
KYLE GETZ
In 2017, that went up to 30%-
MIKE JOHNSON
Great.
KYLE GETZ
-of adults say they believe in astrology. So there definitely is-
MIKE JOHNSON
Also, people have consistently been less and less religious every year, and you said that your less religious friends are more likely to be into this shit.
KYLE GETZ
Yes.
MIKE JOHNSON
Like, is it supplanting…?
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. There are a lot of- I also read a bunch of like, just, you know, pop kind of culture articles that are about this, and a lot of them were around 2017, 2019, and they mentioned, yeah, like people are less religious, which is interesting that this is growing then. Millennials – they talked about us millennials – you know, we always fuck everything up, and it’s like, “and they’re more gay, and believing more in this,” so yeah, there’s like weird kind of connection. So if you feel like you’ve been hear- I feel like I’ve been hearing more about astrology of like- in the past several years. And that’s more- Like, 5, 10 years ago I wouldn’t have connected astrology with queerness, but that has become very connected to me, and I think that is truly a recent phenomenon. Do you agree? Do you-
MIKE JOHNSON
I have a story about that later.
KYLE GETZ
Oh, okay.
MIKE JOHNSON
I’ll tell you later.
KYLE GETZ
Okay. Okay. In 2005- Now we’ll get into difference in genders. In 2005, there was a Gallup poll that asked people about paranormal beliefs and other, like, these kinds of things, and, in the US at least- They separated out the difference between men and women. Sorry, nonbinary people, no fucking idea because Gallup didn’t know you existed in 2005. In the US, 23% of men said they believe in astrology.
MIKE JOHNSON
‘Kay.
KYLE GETZ
For women, that was 28%.
MIKE JOHNSON
Oh.
KYLE GETZ
That’s not a huge difference.
MIKE JOHNSON
I thought the gap would be larger… [chuckles] we said about your butt.
KYLE GETZ
I- [both laugh] Yeah, every top has said to me. Um, I agree. I agree. And it’s not- It’s about a quarter each. Like, it is not the pervasive belief of women or anything. So, yeah, those numbers I was surprised at, and yeah, especially the gender gap was not as big as I thought.
MIKE JOHNSON
Well, and the whole thing that we’ve talked about several times of, like, a lot of gay stuff is actually feminine stuff that gets like- you know, by the commutative property of misogyny, ends up being what we say about gay people, and maybe that’s not the case here.
KYLE GETZ
I think it- I think it still is. So, in Canada and the UK, the gender gap is larger. Men, 70% believe in, it versus women, 33% believe in it in Canada.
MIKE JOHNSON
Okay.
KYLE GETZ
In Great Britain, 14% of men believe in it, versus 30% of women. So there are larger gender gaps in other countries.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
So, yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
British guys don’t believe anything.
KYLE GETZ
[chuckles] They barely believe in themselves. [Mike laughs] Um- Am I British? Okay. Uh, the only thing- The only- They asked about several different beliefs, and the only thing that men believed in at a higher percentage than women was that extra-terrestrial beings have visited Earth at some point in the past.
MIKE JOHNSON
Sure. Great.
KYLE GETZ
It was the only question where men [chuckles] had stronger belief. Which is like, why is that a men- Why is astrology more women, and aliens visiting Earth is a man thing?
MIKE JOHNSON
Because science fiction is like white straight bro-marketed, and it’s so toxic too.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. But like, I definitely- I definitely think that, like, sci fi is created for and marketed to mostly dudes.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
And I guarantee that people that are into sci fi are more likely to think about, and therefore believe in, extraterrestrials.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. In that documentary, Picard, um-
MIKE JOHNSON
Starts Thursday, everybody. Today! Oh, Picard’s tonight! Everybody, don’t miss it!
KYLE GETZ
The day of this episode release. [Mike chuckles] Okay, now let’s get into lesbians.
MIKE JOHNSON
Let’s get into- [laughs] They don’t like that.
KYLE GETZ
With consent. Um, Autostraddle is a lesbian website- I remember even like finding an article on this and was like “’Autostraddle’? That’s funny. That’s a weird-” and now like, come to realize it’s like this giant, like, lesbian website. Um, they did a 2018 lesbian stereotypes survey-
MIKE JOHNSON
Sure.
KYLE GETZ
-where they got over 12,000 responses. The breakdown – even though it’s, like, lesbian women-focused – 75% of those responses were cis lesbians, the rest were trans and queer women and trans and queer people, but heavy on the- heavy on lesbians.
MIKE JOHNSON
Mhm.
KYLE GETZ
Uh, 41% were lesbians, the rest were queer, bi, or pan. And, for the question “Do you believe in astrology?” – and the way that is phrased as was the other question in Pew Pew – “Do you believe in astrology, that [is, that] the positions of stars and planets can affect people’s lives?” That is specifically what they’re asking about astrology. What percentage said yes they believe in it, Mike?
MIKE JOHNSON
60!
KYLE GETZ
28%.
MIKE JOHNSON
Aw, I’m disappointed now.
KYLE GETZ
I’m very happy, because for once in our fucking careers- [chuckles]
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
-you said what I wanted you to, and it was wrong, and I got to say the right thing.
MIKE JOHNSON
Oh, Great. Great. I’m so proud of you. [laughs]
KYLE GETZ
Podcast over. It finally worked, Mike.
MIKE JOHNSON
Where I thought you were gonna go, before you decided to be mean to me, was [Kyle laughs] that it’s a stereotype of lesbians that is not true!
KYLE GETZ
Yes. Yeah. Oh, yes. I’m getting there. I had to be mean to you before we could get to that point. [Mike laughs] It’s the bridge on the road to the actual discussion.
MIKE JOHNSON
Sure.
KYLE GETZ
Yes, it is- it’s not the case that a majority, or even like close to half, believe in this.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, and, sort of in line with cis het women, right?
KYLE GETZ
Yes. It’s- And they did the comparison between some of the other, like national studies, of like, you know, their data versus other data. So, you know, obviously, comparing two different- But they phrased it in the exact same way of a question, to try to eliminate- So anyway, the biggest difference- Yeah, it was very close to- In terms of people that believed, it was very close. In their survey in the Autostraddle lesbian stereotype survey, the percentage of people that said “I don’t know,” is 20%, and for the other studies they said 4%. So that was the biggest difference, that there’s far more people that say, “I don’t know.”
MIKE JOHNSON
…Astrology agnostic?
KYLE GETZ
Astrology… agnostic. Yeah! Yeah, yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
Interesting. Although, I’m sure Sarah Ray will tell me that, like, that’s not what agnostic means.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. And then 52% of people said “No,” they don’t believe in it. Um, and then the headline of the article – the Autostraddle article – pointed out that 28%- even though 28% believe in it, 50% of their readers look at their charts. So, more people look at their charts then believe in it. So, they themselves on their website has an astrology section, so that could play into their readers are more likely maybe to look at their own, like, Autostraddle’s horoscopes or something. So- But yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
You keep saying “straddle”, and I- [laughs]
KYLE GETZ
It’s- And “autostraddle” mean straddle yourself.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah, I straddle myself.
KYLE GETZ and MIKE JOHNSON
[speaking rhythmically] I straddle myself. I straddle- I straddle- I straddle myself. [both laugh]
KYLE GETZ
Um, but yes, this is very much- This is what we assume, that all lesbians are into astrology, and I think we talk about it louder than is true. We blow up this- There is some truth to it. Some people believe in it, and it’s important, but we blow it up into this much bigger thing. That is not the case.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah, yeah. Interesting.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. I think I will, maybe on the Patreon segment, talk a little bit more about fun tidbits, about like what percentage- Oh, the one that I will mention here: the belief in astrology, by sexual orientation, was about overall 28% of lesbians – specifically lesbians – said they believed in astrology. The most likely to believe in astrology where 38% of those who identified as sexually fluid-
MIKE JOHNSON
Oh!
KYLE GETZ
-believed in astrology. So that was the highest of all the possible orientations. That one was the highest.
MIKE JOHNSON
Interesting.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
Wonder what that says?
KYLE GETZ
Like, you- I dunno.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
It’s hard to do- It’s hard to say what that says without then stereotyping a big group of people. You know? I dunno. It’s weird. Anyway, so that’s the truth behind astrology.
MIKE JOHNSON
Huh! End of episode. [laughs]
KYLE GETZ
I mean, it kind of does break the, like, the assumptions, right? Like-
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We got one, Kyle! We busted one! [laughs]
KYLE GETZ
Well, I mean, this is one that- It like, seems very like-
MIKE JOHNSON
Go ahead. You’re fine. [chuckles]
KYLE GETZ
Your face didn’t- [chuckles] Okay. This is very much one that- It seems pretty clear to me that this is a stereotype, this is assumption, it’s not true, it’s- Yeah. It’s very interesting, that kind of very, like, clear cut data it seems like.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah, if we ever tried to do this show like MythBusters style, like, we so rarely have busted at the end of the episode. [laughs]
KYLE GETZ
Yes. Yes, yes. I think this is busted for sure.
MIKE JOHNSON
Great. Great, great, great. Well uh, I did- I mentioned earlier, I wanted to talk to you about the queer astrology movement. The queer astrology movement-
KYLE GETZ
I have a- had a queer astrology movement in the toilet.
MIKE JOHNSON
Well… I’m proud of you.
KYLE GETZ
Thank you.
MIKE JOHNSON
There is a queer astrology movement, and they have a queer astrology conference, and that’s an annual conference. It’s been around for a while: 2015, the conference has been.
KYLE GETZ
Which, that- Okay, that kind of is in line with my general understanding of like, when this has been growing in popularity and all that. So yeah, that makes sense.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah, that’s absolutely true. And, um, so- So it was… [sighs] I don’t know how to fit this in here.
KYLE GETZ
Ha! That’s what… she said.
MIKE JOHNSON
Said every top to you, ever. [Kyle laughs] In 2013, they – a bunch of professional astrologers, who were queer – had a queer astrology conference in San Francisco, and about 120 people came.
KYLE GETZ
Damn.
MIKE JOHNSON
And, uh, it was really interesting. One of the things, that was a talk that they had, was this idea that men are from Mars and women are from Venus… but are nonbinary people from? And there really is a lot of, like, gender binary stuff that’s built into the bullshit of astrology.
KYLE GETZ
Interesting.
MIKE JOHNSON
And, like, what do we do about that? And-
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
Anyway-
KYLE GETZ
You said you have a story- Okay. The men and- The breakdown of men versus women… okay, this is why you mentioned that earlier.
MIKE JOHNSON
I think s- Yes.
KYLE GETZ
Yes. “Yes,” he said confidently.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yes. Yes, yes, yes. Uh, I looked through a list of all of the topics that they’ve ever covered at that conference-
KYLE GETZ
Wow!
MIKE JOHNSON
-and absolutely my favorite one is: a claimed astrologer, Christopher Renstrom, just last year did one called “Does Uranus Make Me Gay?” [both laugh] But apparently the position of Uranus, on your chart, is supposed to, in astrological circles, influence your sexual orientation.
KYLE GETZ
Interesting. I wonder if anyone’s dug into, like, if it affects whether you’re a top, bottom, side, whatever.
MIKE JOHNSON
Let’s- We should find- Let us know, If you’re not mad at us for shitting astrology, [both chuckle] dear listener.
KYLE GETZ
That would be interesting, if you could find it in the stars, like what you were meant to be. Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
So, some other some of the more serious topics that I thought were really interesting. Like, you mentioned Mercury being in retrograde. There are these cycles that happen, right? And one of their topics was “The Saturn Return of AIDS,” and there was an astrologer who had lost his partner to AIDS and did a star chart for the AIDS epidemic. So he went to the CDC website and found the day that the CDC officially named HIV/AIDS HIV/AIDS, called that its birthday, and then did a star chart to help him cope, understand, process, his partner’s death.
KYLE GETZ
I mean, at that time would it be when they called it “GRID”, or when they call it “AIDS”? Because wouldn’t’ve called it “HIV”.
MIKE JOHNSON
It just says the date the CDC named the virus served as its birthday for this chart.
KYLE GETZ
Interesting. Okay.
MIKE JOHNSON
There’s also- Another one was “Lilith And Adam: The Origins Of Gender, Sex and Deviance” and it looked at the mythology of Adam in the Bible. And Lilith – which, Lilith is an interesting story that, like, is an evil lesbian trope almost, I think, but, uh – she was kicked out of the Garden of Eden for refusing to have sex in missionary position.
KYLE GETZ
Wow.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. Now, it didn’t make it into the Bible. I think that’s an apocryphal book, but it’s because a bunch of white dudes got together and decided what was in the Bible and what was out of the Bible, but they had a lot to choose from.
KYLE GETZ
We can’t teach women that they don’t have to do missionary.
MIKE JOHNSON
Exactly right. Exactly right.
KYLE GETZ
But is that where the fair came from? Is that where Lilith Fair came from?
MIKE JOHNSON
Yes.
KYLE GETZ
Damn!
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. Women that ain’t gonna put up with your shit.
KYLE GETZ
I love that.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
Angry women- Angry lesbians that got kicked out of the Garden of Eden?
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
That’s- Yeah, that’s Alanis Morissette right there. Yeah! Yeah, yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
[laughs] And “Ecosexuality: Liberating the Venus Within Pluto”-
KYLE GETZ
What the- That- Okay. [both laugh]
MIKE JOHNSON
-which was meant to serve as an entryway to awakening the astrological archetypes in a radically intimate cosmology, which recognizes the centrality of relationship to our being.
KYLE GETZ
Oh, now I see.
MIKE JOHNSON
None of that made any sense whatsoever.
KYLE GETZ
But someone out there’s fuckin’ loving this shit. I wonder how it- Like, I just- What- I just had on my paper somewhere like, “Gemini season.” I wrote nothing about that, but I was like, “At some point, I need to mention Gemini season, and someone’s gonna fuckin’ love that.”
MIKE JOHNSON
Absolutely. [laughs]
KYLE GETZ
I dunno. Or maybe they’ll hate it, because they’re like, “You don’t- You have no idea what that is.”
MIKE JOHNSON
You can look up “Queer Astrology” – they have a Facebook page, there’s queerastrology.com – and find all of their events. They’re doing a lot of stuff on Zoom, they do plan on returning to in-person get-togethers, and it’s just- it’s really cool that there is a group that’s dedicated to just embracing the queerness of all of this and talking about these issues, and using that lens for queer content. So I thought it was really- really interesting.
KYLE GETZ
This is the, like, one of those weird things where I- but, while I don’t personally believe in it, if it is a thing that exists and people care about- So, if- Given that’s the case, I want there to be a queer lens on it. I want someone to question why- where are nonbi- which planet or nonbinary people from. Like, I want people to be doing this. So I’m glad- Like, I’m both gonna make fun of it a little bit here, but also, I’m really glad that organization exists, and is doing that, and making sure queer people get represented everywhere.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yep, absolutely. And, while I’m here, I will also talk about: legitimately there’s a organization/event planner. I don’t know- I don’t know- I don’t understand- Okay. [Kyle chuckles] Have you ever been to a city where like, there’s a place that’s not a gay bar, but it has so many gay events it might as well be a gay bar?
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
Have you ever been to a party that goes to different places and the party has an identity?
KYLE GETZ
No, like a beer crawl?
MIKE JOHNSON
Like a- Like a circuit party, I guess. That’s like a similar thing, right? Like the venue- It’s not about the venue, it’s about, like, “This is the thing.”
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
Anyway, in Los Angeles, there’s a thing called “Asstology”, A-S-S-T-R-O-L-O-G-Y. ASStrology. It’s @gayasstrology.
KYLE GETZ
[laughs] That’s fun.
MIKE JOHNSON
But they have all kinds of events, but one of the things that they do, on a monthly basis, is they have a themed dance event around whatever the current zodialogical sign is. So they are having a Pisces party on March 3, they just had an Aquarius party for February, and I just- The pictures are great. Also is- I don’t know if this is true, but just based on the pictures, it looks to me to be a more diverse crowd than just blonde white twinks, which is what I expect out of Los Angeles, and looked actually to be a fairly diverse crowd. I just- I thought that was really hilarious.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
So check out ASStrology, [Kyle laughs] y’all In LA, and let me know.
KYLE GETZ
I have just been going back through and listening to all the Live episodes of My Brother My Brother and Me, the podcast, and, in one, someone-
MIKE JOHNSON
That’s what we should call the episode with my brothers: My Brother My Brother and Me. [laughs]
KYLE GETZ
Ohh. That’s a really good idea, actually. That’s a really good idea, actually. But one of the questions- or, it came up, like someone said that whenever they ask someone’s sign, whenever someone says their sign- I forget what exactly, but their reaction was something like “Oh no…” which, I think that’s hilarious and I’m going to start doing.
MIKE JOHNSON
Oohh.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah, like just do some fake- Like, pretend like you-
MIKE JOHNSON
Like a knowing- [chuckles]
KYLE GETZ
Yeah, a knowing response to it. Okay, what I want to get into is- What my question is, especially because I don’t personally care or understand… I get it, I get why- I pulled from articles, as I was reading, why- some of the explanations of why people are into this.
MIKE JOHNSON
Okay. Okay, okay.
KYLE GETZ
So, you know, every article says something a little bit different, and I just pulled the ones that I thought were most interesting to me. So first, in NewNowNext, Lindsey Faust, who is- [chuckles] This is not me, this is the article. “Lindsey Faust, a lesbian…” That’s- That’s all she was credited as.
MIKE JOHNSON
Known lesbian.
KYLE GETZ
Known [both laugh] lesbian, Lindsey Faust, who has no other qualities that are important, at least for this article I guess, said, quote, “It’s an assumed common ground,” “I [recently] went to a ‘queer function’ and was asked my sign within 15 minutes.”
MIKE JOHNSON
Okay.
KYLE GETZ
So, I think there is very much something to this. As a lesbian [laughs] said. Like, I think there is something to, even though we talked about a higher percentage of people don’t believe than do, but it’s become so associated especially with lesbians that you probably got to know at least your sign or have a little bit to- if you want to make conversation.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. Yep. Absolutely. I mean, it’s kind of like Drag Race for the gays. Like, I don’t- When I- When that conversation comes up, I have nothing to add. Or I can be like, “Hey, did you know Jinkx Monsoon was on our show?” and like, that seems important to people.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
Like- But I don’t have anything to add.
MIKE JOHNSON
When it comes to drag queens, when people start throwing around some random-ass name and everybody’s like smiling, and nodding, and excited, it must be a drag queen. [Kyle laughs] Like every time, I’m pretty sure.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. Yeah, like, it’s kind of, like, a kind of punny name that’s like- You know, yeah. Or, straight people will start to- will talk to me about drag race sometime and I’ll be like, “I don’t know.” [both chuckle] Like, sorry, I have nothing to- Like, I have to inform them. So that’s an interesting part of why someone may- You know, that 25% that doesn’t believe but still looks at their charts. Like, maybe that’s for conversation in queer spaces or something.
MIKE JOHNSON
Sure, yeah. Spaces.
KYLE GETZ
Spaces.
MIKE JOHNSON
Find us on Spaces, everybody.
KYLE GETZ
We have one of the biggest groups on spaces.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
Get in it, get on it, and then go. Um, quoted in an article I read was, the UK editor of a women’s site, Broadly – that’s the name of the site, Broadly, haha, get it? – uh, the UK editor Tsjeng… [TN: said like “zing”] Tsjeng [TN: said like “sing”] said, quote, “My personal belief is that people tend to turn to mysticism, spirituality and the occult in uncertain times, and I feel that young people, especially, are living in one of the most uncertain times ever, at least in my living memory. There’s an increasing willingness to question the arranged order, break out of pre-defined social norms and look for answers elsewhere.”
MIKE JOHNSON
Yep. Yeah. I totally get that. Like, that totally, totally makes sense. I think that there’s some part of, like, human existence wants to believe that everything happens for a reason, that there’s meaning, that there is cause, that there is some system, some structure, some… some prime mover, and in the absence of that we will find it.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
And this is a perfect way to get that kind of warm blanket control structure in your life, to make you feel like the fact that you’re a loser makes sense. [Kyle laughs] I dunno. [laughs]
KYLE GETZ
Damn. Um, yeah, I mean, especially like when religion- If we are queer- We are queerer than other generations, and we’re getting queerer because it’s more okay, and also religion is the one assaulting us so we’re becoming less religious, it makes sense then what else do you turn for? So I think that kind of explains those- all those weird things that I mentioned at the top, like-
MIKE JOHNSON
It also explains QAnon, Kyle.
MA JOHNSON
That’s true. Yeah. Oh yeah, absolutely. Well, there’s a good part about this, that is not related to astrology necessarily, but I think it is true that people these days are more willing to- Given the state of the world, given the state of the US, people are questioning social norms, people are questioning systemic structures that haven’t been serving us or have been serving cis white people. Like- So, I think that’s true, and I think then one result- Yeah, I think there’s- QAnon, I think- There’s- Astrology comes out of that, I think. There is also, you know, protests and Black Lives Matter came out of that. People’s realization of some of these systemic issues, like, you know, I think there’re a lot of ways that that shows up in society.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.
KYLE GETZ
Another one, in AfterEllen, an article by Arielle Soussan, was, quote, “the lesbian appeal to astrology also stems from experience with lesbian drama.” I didn’t say that- This is- I wouldn’t say this, but a lesbian said, so I think it’s fine. [both chuckle] “When we develop complex feelings or break up with our ex for the ninth time, we search for answers from phenomena greater than ourselves and the physical world.”
MIKE JOHNSON
Girl, you should not be breaking up with anybody for the ninth time.
KYLE GETZ
I’d say right around seven you’re like [Mike laughs] “Huh. Huh. Huh.” Yeah. I break up with people once and don’t talk them, so I do not have this issue. It- But it’s interesting associating, like, lesbian drama with astrology. Again- I mean, again, it is a little bit… “In these troubled times,” like, that-
MIKE JOHNSON
Three strikes, you’re out! No pussy’s worth that, girl! Stop it!
KYLE GETZ
Stop it! In a article on The Guardian, in an interview, this writer talks about doing an interview with a young rapper, a man in his early 20s, and he mentioned “I guess I’m a Cancer as well,” “I try to be tough on the outside, but inside, I’m soft as shit.” Which, that made me- I think – and the article pointed out – like, I think Astrology can be a way for maybe even some men to be able to discuss things, like, in the article it was like, oh, we got to a deeper emotional place and could kind of use astrology as the venue to do that, to have that discussion.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah, yeah. Huh. Huh!
KYLE GETZ
Last thing, also back on the AfterEllen article, quote, “lesbians find solace in astrology in order to avoid loneliness. The process of finding others like yourself astrologically mirrors the experience of discovering that other lesbians exist in the world”.
MIKE JOHNSON
Oh. Wait, so like, lesbian bars are disappearing because they’re all looking at their charts? [laughs]
KYLE GETZ
[chuckles] They’re so busy studying them charts, night after night. It’s interesting, like, finding someone that cares about astrology can mirror the, like, the idea of discovering yourself, discovering a community. Like, I don’t know, there’s- Yeah, there’s got to be some- You know, it mentions- It gets back to the original, like, common- finding common ground for people, discovering any kind of common ground and shared interest is helpful.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. On the Autostraddle article, it gave some people’s direct comments, and people that said they didn’t know or didn’t believe in it, some people were like “Yeah, like, I don’t think it’s real, but if it can-“ just like you said, like, “If you can look at this and make some- and you find value, you bring value to it because it makes you reflect on your day or your month, or it makes you pause and think about things, or something, you can bring value to this.” So I think that’s- I think that’s a really big part of why some people are into it.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
Some people are all-in and believe it, and whatever, and other people I think roll with it because it does something useful, that’s mindful, that’s thinking-through, and-
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. I don’t know how this fits, but there’s also the, like… people legit want to understand their relationships through it, right? Like, “I’m a Sagittarius, why is my Cancer husband driving me so crazy?” like, and there’s lots of that kind of stuff that people are trying to dig into.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. Yeah. Well, and it- Okay. We talked about like, if things don’t- as long as it doesn’t harm other people, as long as it- Like, is there some kind of negative potential for this to be used in, like, this may show up and are just like, “Oh, it’s our signs,” rather than having a discussion with why your husband is pissing you off? Like-
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah, absolutely!
KYLE GETZ
Or does it block you from relationships? Because you’re like, “Oh, no, you’re a- you’re a Sagittarius. I don’t fuck with Sagittarii.”
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. Right. Well, yeah. Yeah. There’s for sure the downside potential of like, sometimes it’s not that he’s a Sagittarius, it’s that he’s an asshole.
KYLE GETZ
Yep. [laughs] Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
Right? Like, so stop letting him off the hook because of his sign.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
Stand up for yourself.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. Yeah, Leos!
MIKE JOHNSON
I don’t… [laughs] We don’t know anything.
KYLE GETZ
I just want to yell at various signs. [laughs]
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Capricorn… I just- I did one. Okay- [Kyle laughs] Uh-
KYLE GETZ
That was a good bit. I like that. I like that that.
MIKE JOHNSON
Um, yeah, and then there is exactly what you said, the corollary of that also of like, “I have to be with a…” fill in the blank.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
“I have to be with a Leo.”
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
And then letting really good, potentially awesome, people pass you by because they don’t fit what you think it has to be, because of this bullshit.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah, and now I’m thinking like, on the other side, I saw articles mention like some people on like dating apps will put their sign or whatever, and maybe that, like, then can just spark a conversation. Like, maybe that is like a “Let’s have something to talk about.” Let’s give them something to talk about.
MIKE JOHNSON
I turned my phone off because I’m a good podcaster. I was gonna check and see if my sign is on my dating profile.
KYLE GETZ
Oohh! Wait, you- You’re not- You- It’s possible that you put your sign on your profile?
MIKE JOHNSON
Tinder makes it easy, right? Tinder is like, asks you a bunch of questions, and like, I think it asked, and I think I put mine on there.
KYLE GETZ
Interesting. I wonder- If it said “What is my sign?” I think I’d say “I hated that movie.”
MIKE JOHNSON
Oh. [laughs]
KYLE GETZ
I put something dumb.
MIKE JOHNSON
Like, it’s none of your goddamn business, Tinder. [laughs]
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. Or I- Or I could say “Ask me,” and then try to spark conversation.
MIKE JOHNSON
Oooh.
KYLE GETZ
And then, when someone asks me, I’d be like “We’re not a match.” [both laughs] It’d just be a venue for me to be mean to people. That’s all I have to talk about.
MIKE JOHNSON
Great. Okay, one- So I’m gonna talk about Chinese astrology on the Patreon segment.
KYLE GETZ
Okay.
MIKE JOHNSON
Which, that leaves like, all of the white people astrology in the main episode, and we can [chuckles] talk about other kinds of astrology later. So I’ll end- Uh, I’ll end instead with this hilarious thing I found on stylecaster.com about queer astrology, and it’s uh, “Which Queer Icon Are You According To Your Sign?” [TN: Actually “Queer Astrology: The Queer Icon You Are, According To Your Zodiac Sign”]
KYLE GETZ
Okay.
MIKE JOHNSON
And I won’t read all of them, but I will focus on ours.
KYLE GETZ
Okay.
MIKE JOHNSON
If you had to guess: which queer icon do you think I am, Kyle?
KYLE GETZ
[sighs] This is where, like, I just don’t even- Uh, Neil Patrick Harris. I have no fucking idea.
MIKE JOHNSON
Great. Scorpios are… Tilda Swinton. [both laugh] Uh, “Mysterious, entrancing and ever-so-slightly terrifying, Scorpios are known for their emotional depth and shapeshifting abilities. Does that sound like Tilda or what?”
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
It keeps going, but- She did say, quote, “I’m from the same planet as David Bowie,” which, that’s pretty- That’s why they look like siblings, maybe?
KYLE GETZ
Oh!
MIKE JOHNSON
Um but uh, but also she, quite recently, started identifying as queer.
KYLE GETZ
Oh, no way!
MIKE JOHNSON
In 2021 she said it. But then, also, she kind of said it in that “’cause I’m quirky!” kind of way. But she did specifically mention sexuality as part of her queer identity, but that was just one part of a bunch of stuff that was really just off the mainstream. She’s very androgynous, which is like, that’s kind of her brand.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. I- Okay. Normally- I think we’ve talked before, when we- Like, last Pride when we talked about the word “queer” and like, “culturally queer,” it’s like… mmm, nah. We were both kinda like “Uh-uh.”
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. If Tilda Swinton was like “I’m quirky. I’m calling myself queer,” I’d kind of be- and that’s the only reason… she’s so fucking out there, I might be like “Yeah, you get that one. You can- You can go with ‘queer’, because you’re just so fuckin’ weird.”
MIKE JOHNSON
Well also, I wouldn’t push back, because I find her terrifying. [both laugh] Like, “You can say wherever you want to, please don’t eat my soul.” Like-
KYLE GETZ
That’s true. That’s true. She’s like the Björk of acting. You’re like “I don’t understand your anything,” and so that’s fine.
MIKE JOHNSON
Uh, Sagittariuses- “Sagittarii”?
KYLE GETZ
Sagittar- Sagittariieses.
MIKE JOHNSON
…Are Miley Cyrus.
KYLE GETZ
Okay.
MIKE JOHNSON
Because of her unapologetic form of self-expression-
KYLE GETZ
Sure.
MIKE JOHNSON
-and fierce queerness. Capricorn is Indya Moore.
KYLE GETZ
Oh, from Pose!
MIKE JOHNSON
Mhm. One of the most influential people in the world, according to Time Magazine.
KYLE GETZ
Damn. Get it, Indya.
MIKE JOHNSON
Um, but uh, yeah. This says “It took a lot of time and struggle for Indya Moore to rise to success, but they’re here and they ain’t going anywhere!” Uh, Aquariuses- Aquariusi- Aquarii?
KYLE GETZ
Yeah, let’s do that for every [laughs] sign.
MIKE JOHNSON
Pamela Coleman-Smith.
KYLE GETZ
I have no idea who that is.
MIKE JOHNSON
We’re gonna spend some time on this one, just because. Uh, “A queer, gender-bending artist and mystic of color, Pamela Colman-Smith was way ahead of her time. Born in 1877, she had a keen eye for the future (as many Aquarians do). Her legacy entails designing and illustrating the classic Rider-Waite-Smith tarot deck,” which is one of the- I have a copy of it.
KYLE GETZ
Really?
MIKE JOHNSON
“Nicknamed ‘Pixie’, she was a sprightly, creative free spirit—typical of Aquarius people. An unconventional rebel, she was an avant-garde bohemian and activist who reveled in the weird, otherworldly and esoteric concepts that normal people just don’t usually talk about. Through tarot, Pamela built radical new worlds centered on freedom and creativity.” Just- I- I don’t- Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
That’s a why or a value that we didn’t mention. Like, in a world where the kind of freedom of expression, the freedom of pursuing your- what feels right, your interest values- I mean, back to, like, especially when it does no harm to anyone, like, that’s a good thing. I want to encourage that kind of thing, and I think of that more as like, you know, value- like, more liberal – socially liberal – kind of values as well. But like, that, you know, those kinds of core concepts that then lead someone to astrology or to tarot, like, that-
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
I like that.
MIKE JOHNSON
I’m with you. I’m with you. Pisces is Walter Mercado, who was a- It’s, “What would an article about queer astrology be without [the] one true Walter Mercado? The ultimate Pisces, [Mercado] was a loving, trusting and tender mystic with supernatural abilities and supernatural style.” Just… an interesting, interesting dude. Now we come all the way back around the Zodialogical calendar to Aries.
KYLE GETZ
That’s me!
MIKE JOHNSON
It is you… and this is the end of our friendship.
KYLE GETZ
[gasps] Am I Taylor Swift?
MIKE JOHNSON
I got to be- No. I got to be Tilda Swinton, you got to be Lil Nas X.
KYLE GETZ
[both laugh] Yeah, we have the same birthday. Like, we have the exact same birthday. I mean, not in years, but in date.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. Yeah. Which, if that doesn’t prove that, like, that the day of your birth isn’t bullshit, I don’t know what does.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah, yeah. Me and Lil Nas X have gone separate paths in our lives that make it clear that Aries is not- does not mean you’re a certain way.
MIKE JOHNSON
“Lil Nas X is an Aries if ever there was one—a trailblazing hell-raiser who keeps it real and gives no f*cks. Like Lil Nas, bold and unapologetic is the preferred state of being for those born under Aries.”
KYLE GETZ
“bold and apologe-” I’m soft and apologetic! [both laugh] Like, I’m the exact opposite of this.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yep. “They aren’t afraid to speak their minds [and] will clap back if you have a problem with it. Independence, innovation and breaking barriers are essential for Aries, and who does it better than our beloved Montero?”
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. This is all the shit that always comes up, yeah. We’ll “always clap back”, “unapologetic”, “will always-“ you know, “trailblazing”, all this stuff, and I’m like, “I’m doing Aries wrong.”
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. [laughs] Uh, and then, I’ll finish the rest of them but not read them. Taurus, y’all Taurus is Cher-
KYLE GETZ
Oh!
MIKE JOHNSON
-as the fairy drag-mother of gays. [Kyle laughs] Uh, Gemini is Prince.
KYLE GETZ
Oh.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah, because they’re multi-dimensional and many sided beings.
KYLE GETZ
Sure.
MIKE JOHNSON
Cancer is Sylvia Rivera, because of the way that she takes care of her people, and Leo is Whitney Houston. Leos walk into a room and everyone notices. And Virgo is Freddie Mercury.
KYLE GETZ
Oh, that’s a good one.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. And Libra: Oscar Wilde. Flair and eccentric, and flamboyant.
KYLE GETZ
Aw. Gay.
MIKE JOHNSON
And that’s it. That’s all 12.
KYLE GETZ
That’s beautiful.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
I hope you found your person, and that you derive meaning from it.
MIKE JOHNSON
I’m real mad about Tilda Swinton.
KYLE GETZ
I’m sorry.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. Alright. Um, did we do-
KYLE GETZ
Do you want to trade?
MIKE JOHNSON
Yes.
KYLE GETZ
Okay, I’ll do that.
MIKE JOHNSON
Okay. Tilda Swinton will sit on your face, and Lil Nas X will sit on mine? [laughs]
KYLE GETZ
No. We’re not- [laughs] You want to- We’re not fucking these people, we’re- they’re representing our core.
MIKE JOHNSON
That boy hot.
KYLE GETZ
I would rather be a Tilda Swinton, because like, I would rather just kind of do my own shit and be like, out there and weird.
MIKE JOHNSON
Lil Nas X doesn’t?
KYLE GETZ
But like, he’s like, way more-
MIKE JOHNSON
Black? [chuckles]
KYLE GETZ
I mean, that’s factually accurate, yes, but I was gonna say like, he’s way more like- With the marketing, he’s like- he’s doing it thoughtfully and purposefully, and like, she seems more just like weird, artistic, kind of like she just has a brain in a different world, that like-
MIKE JOHNSON
Oh. Just how she is?
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
Alright. Alright. I’m with you.
KYLE GETZ
Which, I like that. That’s what I want for myself.
MIKE JOHNSON
Did we do it?
KYLE GETZ
Well, we’re gonna talk more about our own signs, and I’m gonna read what the lesbian website Autostraddle says about us there-
MIKE JOHNSON
Great.
KYLE GETZ
-and then you’re gonna talk about Chinese astrology. So, more to do but that’s all you get here, everybody.
MIKE JOHNSON
Great.
KYLE GETZ
Great.
MIKE JOHNSON
Should we take a break?
KYLE GETZ
Let’s take a break!
MIKE JOHNSON
What would a Capricorn do?
KYLE GETZ
They would- They would fart and die. [both chuckle]
[Break music plays, sung by MIKE JOHNSON]
This is the part where Mike and Kyle take a break!
MIKE JOHNSON
Are you ready?
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
So are we back?
KYLE GETZ
We’re back!
MIKE JOHNSON
We’re back!
KYLE GETZ
We had a sit down with our-
MIKE JOHNSON
If you want to know what Gayish has to do with being a firecock… [laughs]
KYLE GETZ
We are such a big firecock.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
I was gonna say “But first.” Wait, that’s not what we do now. We’re gonna do our Gayest & Straightest.
MIKE JOHNSON
We’re gonna do our Gayest & Straightest, but first…
KYLE GETZ
Okay, okay. I got there.
MIKE JOHNSON
…local gay bar review!
KYLE GETZ
Ooh!
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah, this time I’m talking about the Midnight Sun in San Francisco, California. It is a interesting bar, because it’s kind of skinny and deep, and-
KYLE GETZ
Mmm…
MIKE JOHNSON
Well, okay now. [Kyle laughs] The night that I went there was a karaoke night, and they were having some kind of karaoke competition?
KYLE GETZ
Wow.
MIKE JOHNSON
So everyone was very much, like, on edge, and being real, like-
KYLE GETZ
Like, eyeing their competitors, and stuff?
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah, yeah. And then, they have this stage, but it was like a legit stage. Like- So you’re up, like, above everybody, singing karaoke. Some of it was very bad. [Kyle laughs] I mean, real, real bad.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
Not the first time that I’d been there. I traveled to San Francisco for work fairly regularly, and Midnight Sun is sort of on my rotation. On this particular evening, 4 dildos.
KYLE GETZ
Okay. What’s it- What would you give the overall bar?
MIKE JOHNSON
Like, other times that I’ve visited?
KYLE GETZ
Not one particular time, just overall.
MIKE JOHNSON
Overall?
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
Also 4 dildos.
KYLE GETZ
Okay, cool.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
So, met expectations.
MIKE JOHNSON
Met expectations, yeah. Absolutely. I did make out there once.
KYLE GETZ
Oh.
MIKE JOHNSON
So that was like a 4 1/2 dildo night.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah, yeah. Gotta get that extra half dildo.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah, exactly.
KYLE GETZ
One thing I want to mention is that we are joining- So, the Two Bad Tourists who were on our last episode about partners: we are going to record for their podcast. So, if you are on Patreon, you are hearing this a day early if you are listening to this in the morning, so right when it comes out you still have time. You can join us on February 15th at 10 AM Pacific, which is 1 PM Eastern. We are chatting with a Two Bad Tourists. Look at our Instagram to find where you can listen live. You can download the app that they use. You can join and listen to us talk to them live. We’ll talk more about traveling, about travel stereotypes, they want to ask about sex tourism because we did that recently. We’ll talk about all that good stuff, so join us then. Or, the episode will come out later as Queer Travel Chat, so probably, by the time most people hear this, it’ll probably be available, maybe. But check out- Look out for that. Queer Travel Chat is the name of the podcast, and we will be on it.
MIKE JOHNSON
With any luck, they will have heard me saying that they could fuck me, and we’ll do something about it.
KYLE GETZ
Oh boy. [Mike laughs] I’m gonna just leave for that part.
MIKE JOHNSON
Uh, somebody texted the hotline today to say that they were pro-Mike! [laughs]
KYLE GETZ
I mean, there are multiple wrong people in the world, so, you know.
MIKE JOHNSON
Sure. Uhh, is it time for a Gayest & Straightest?
KYLE GETZ
Uhh-
MIKE JOHNSON and KYLE GETZ
Nope!
KYLE GETZ
Contact-
MIKE JOHNSON
Our website is gayishpodcast.com.
KYLE GETZ
[laughs] Our Instagram, where you can find the details of the live listen, is @gayishpodcast, or we’re also on, you know, Facebook, Spaces, Discord, more stuff.
MIKE JOHNSON
Our hotline, you can send us text messages, or leave us voicemails, or just validate me.
KYLE GETZ
Ehhh.
MIKE JOHNSON
It’s 5855-Gayish. That’s 585-542-9474. Standard rates apply.
KYLE GETZ
Tell me I’m right. Aaand our email’s gayishpodcast@gmail.com.
MIKE JOHNSON
Our physical mailing address: Post Office Box 19882 Seattle, Washington 98109.
KYLE GETZ
Gayest & Straightest.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
I’ll go.
MIKE JOHNSON
[sighing] Okay, go for it.
KYLE GETZ
My gayest: because we are recording on the Sunday of Super Bowl, I have to make it Super Bowl related.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
I found out – or, realized – it was Superbowl weekend on maybe like Monday. Like, earlier this week it was like “The Super Bowl.” I was like, “What the fuck?” So I just- I just had no idea.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
My straightest is, I also didn’t know Rihanna was performing.
MIKE JOHNSON
Oh. [laughs]
KYLE GETZ
Like, that’s the part that the gays know about, is, you know, which, like, which gay icon is performing for the Superbowl halftime show, which we consider the main event. Had no idea there was like an ad that was like “Rihanna’s back,” and I was like “Okay, why?” and it was like- and then I was like “Oh, Super Bowl. Oh.”
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
So, not knowing that is my straightest.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yep. Yep, yep, yep, yep, yep.
KYLE GETZ
What about you?
MIKE JOHNSON
I’m gonna do that thing where it’s okay to order the same thing on the menu as somebody else when you go to lunch.
KYLE GETZ
Oh, I mean- I think- I was just thinking like, Super Bowl has to- Like, we have to get a pass on that week. Our Gayest is definitely going to be Super Bowl.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah, well, so my take on it: the straightest was when you and I went and- We actually, we had, like, beverages as friends.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. We don’t always- [both laugh]
MIKE JOHNSON
Um, but I knew that the Philadelphia Eagles were playing in the Super Bowl. My gayest is, no idea what the other team was, except Rihanna was gonna be there. [both laugh] Uh, a listener’s Gayest & Straightest this time comes to us from our Discord server, and uh, Flax, not to be confused with Dr. Phlox from Enterprise… I’m stalling because I need to pull it up. flax, from our Discord server, says “Straightest: changing the windshield wipers in under 20° weather with no glovess on.”
KYLE GETZ
Damn, that’s impressive. That’s dang- sounds dangerous.
MIKE JOHNSON
The “Gayest: laughing out loud at the gym after signing up for the patreon and thinking of how Kyle will say my name”. [both laugh]
KYLE GETZ
Boy, I hope I fucked it up enough that you enjoyed it, but not enough to make you mad. That’s the sweet spot that I gotta find every time.
MIKE JOHNSON
That is the sweet spot-
KYLE GETZ
Yeah, I know, right?
MIKE JOHNSON
-said every top to you, ever. [both laugh] Um… That’s it!
KYLE GETZ
That’s it!
MIKE JOHNSON
This has been Gayish.
KYLE GETZ
This has been Gayish. Thank you to all the Virgos, we love you more than ever.
MIKE JOHNSON
Just you.
KYLE GETZ
And just you.
MIKE JOHNSON
Well, and the lesbians.
KYLE GETZ
And the lesbi- Oh, yeah, sorry. Lesbians, queer women, queer nonbinary folks that care a lot about this. I hope you learned somethin’.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
I dunno. I also want to thank our Super Gap Bridgers: Andrew Bugbee, Christopher M, John Crawley, Stephen Portch, Joh Stoessel, Harry Shaw, Josh Copeland, Jonathan Montañez, Forrest Nail, Patrick Martin, James Barrow, Steve Douglas, Explosive Lasagna, Michael Cubbington, Just Jamie, Kevin Henderson, Thomas B, DustySands, AE Coleman, Chris Khachatourians, and Jerome York. [quietly] We actually love you more than the Virgos. Don’t tell the Virgos, they’ll get pissed.
MIKE JOHNSON
[laughs] Uh, my chart says we’re done. From the Chris Khachatourians studios, I’m Mike Johnson.
KYLE GETZ
I’m Kyle Getz. Until next week, be butch, be fabulous, be you. See you later.
[Outro music plays, instrumental]
MIKE JOHNSON
[sighs]
KYLE GETZ
Aw, what’s going on, buddy?
[Transcriptionist: C Dixon, CMDixonWork@gmail.com]